How much are the deaths of over 6000 soldiers to you?

on the abortion issue i'm just as cold blooded, if you don't want to have your kid then kill it.

who even cares if its a person yet or not? it hasn't developed the ability to think or undesrstand the world so it won't mind - if it could in some strange twist of logic thankyou maybe it would.

some kids aren't going to get a good life, poor or bust parents unready or unwilling to go though the complex life changing situation should just be able to choose not to.

I would go as far to say that in cases where the woman wont suffer any medical complications (with some future tech maybe) the father of the child should be able to demand she aborts in most cases

reply to post by jerico65

Hate to break it to you, but some of these that are dead are friends of mine.

Well I'm sorry to see this. I'm sure they were great men/women. I have relatives and friends in the military. One has died...another is a completelly different person and changed religions. War changes a person...as you know if you have been there.

You don't understand that I am not trying to attack you. You are on the defensive for something that you should not be.

I want all our troops home. I never wanted them sent out. If they were out to get Bin laden...then yes....I would have been for that...but the whole thing has morphed into something it was never meant to be. Suicide rates among soldiers has reached an all time high.

I care man. That is all.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
just to answer your title question,

if they were conscripited and didn't want to go i would be sad for them,
if they signed up to fight then i'm glad they're dead.

a little harsh? so are bombs, guns, mines, bayonets, etc....


edit to add, oh and if they worked for blackwater or any of those other idiots then i'm double glad they're gone.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by NatureBoy]

Nice post. Since the US doesn't have conscription, and it's all voluntary, you're glad they're dead. Obviously a well crafted post from someone with his head firmly stuck in his 4th point of contact.

What a child. How about running your suck somewhere else? I think people are trying to have an adult conversation and you forgot to put the big boy pants on today.

Now, go to the mods and fill out your "hurt feelings report".

I'm not going to reply to the ad hominem attacks. Thank you though. I appreciate it. :-)

Some of you need to think a little more about the bigger picture. Not everything is cut and dry in life. Some people do not choose to fail in education. If those people then do choose to get a job that they can get then I applaud them. They don't make government policy - they just follow it. Oh, and before anyone considers doing so, don't even think about throwing the Nuremburg defence at me. It's different.

And I can assure fellow members that my mentality has been nothing more than an 'excuse' for success so far in my life.

Have a pleasant evening, all.

Cado

reply to post by NatureBoy


Judging by some of the characters I've met in my life there aren't nearly enough abortions performed in this country. Course people can say the same about me.

With regards to Iraq it seems to me if they truly wanted to WIN they would have marshaled the same amount of troops as they did in 91 to expel Iraq from tiny Kuwait.

1991 US troops 575.000+ Allies.

This last time we invaded with a little under US troops 275.000+ Allies
then dropped it quickly down to around 125.000 to control a whole country. Something wasn't right.

reply to post by jerico65


wow an adult conversation?!?! All i can see is a torrent of ad homs

You didn't like my opinion so you attack me but don't refute my opinion... you sound like the sort of person i don't really care if they die or not, classic thug mentality - guess what, this isn't the bronzeage we have rational argumentation now!

oh yeah i'm totally off the wall with this crazy opinion - you good god fearing 'merikans love your totally honest and just fighting force and only a lunatic would say anything otherwise.... well, a lunatic and jesus of course who said 'those who live by the sword die by the sword.' - the entire base of western society rests on do unto others as you would have done unto thyself - its hardly a large jump to say if you wanna kill people then dont expect anyone to be shocked or to care when someone kills you.

Ok there is a little glimpse at the rational argument i'm making - how about you respond with something other than insults?

Originally posted by David9176
You cannot be against the debt and PRO-WAR as it is a huge part of our debt...not to mention DEATH.

Sure I can, watch.

I am against the outrageous spending on government programs that either aren't necessary or aren't working, not to mention all the fraud in many of those programs. I support spending that actually goes to the defense of the country which naturally means having a fully staffed, fully operational, fully equipped military.

How much are the deaths of 6000+plus soldiers the last 8 years to you? Was the cost worth it? What about the innocent people that have died? What about the innocent children that have died? Were the 6000 plus soldiers a good trade off for the 3000 that died in the world trade centers? What is a justifiable cost for you in that regard? Against abortion? How can you be against abortion if you are FOR DEATH?

Could you put a dollar amount on the life of a soldier? Could you put a dollar amount on the life of innocent people? I sure can't.

Thousands of people have died needlessly, I agree with you on that. However, we were attacked and innocent people lost their lives just because they were at work that day. As horrifying as it is to me that innocent people have lost their lives since the wars began, the people responsible for the trade center attacks need to be found and be held accountable. Iraq shouldn't have happened. Afghanistan has been largely ignored when that was where bin Laden supposedly was eight years ago and that was the place we should have been focused on not Iraq. Unfortunately, no one in the government particularly cares what I think and it wasn't up to me.

For what it's worth, I am pro-choice for the simple reason that even though I'm a mother and couldn't imagine ever having an abortion for any reason I realize that there are women who are pregnant because they were raped, because of incest, and women who will die if they don't abort. Who am I to tell someone else what they can do with their own body? Who am I to tell someone else that she can't have an abortion just because I couldn't live with myself if I did? Nobody, that's who.

So I guess I'm only a little bit hypocritical when it comes to spending right?

Your opinion is, "If they joined the military and were killed, I'm glad." It's the opinion of a small-minded person that's never been in the military and the only war they have seen is on their Xbox.

But, you keep on rocking with your bad self with that opinion.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
you sound like the sort of person i don't really care if they die or not.....

Now that really stings. I'll lose some sleep over that.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Ok there is a little glimpse at the rational argument i'm making - how about you respond with something other than insults?

Shucks, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I haven't even turned my obnoxious dial up to "medium" yet.

reply to post by jerico65


Well done for guessing i've never been in the army, did u get that from when i said anyone stupid enough to join the army deserves to die?

Yet again you insult me, you call me a child and try to raise yourself above me - however not a single line of your post retorts my rational argument..... hmmm why could that be? maybe because i'm right and you're speeking on nothing but emotion and blind tv-patriotism.

i'll reiterate, you are i presume a christian? personally i'm an athiest but i come from a judeo-christian culture so i'm well versed in the moralistic systems - you dissagree with jesus that those who live by the sword dies by the sword? i would love to you reasoning....

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Well done for guessing i've never been in the army, did u get that from when i said anyone stupid enough to join the army deserves to die?

So, only stupid people join the Army? Hey, are you John Kerry? Who are you that passes judgment on who "deserves to die"?

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Yet again you insult me, you call me a child and try to raise yourself above me - however not a single line of your post retorts my rational argument..... hmmm why could that be? maybe because i'm right and you're speeking on nothing but emotion and blind tv-patriotism.

If you're right, and really believe you're right, how about taking your opinion down to the local recruiter and pass it off on them? You know, sort of get a reality check on how well it flies. Let us know how it works out for you.

If you were me, you'd be arrogant, too.
.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
i'll reiterate, you are i presume a christian? personally i'm an athiest but i come from a judeo-christian culture so i'm well versed in the moralistic systems - you dissagree with jesus that those who live by the sword dies by the sword? i would love to you reasoning....

Dying in combat is part of the whole gig. It's a risk that everyone with the nads to enlist takes when they sign up. But saying that, it doesn't mean that they "deserve to die".

reply to post by jerico65


I'm not carpet bombing here, some people in history have sometimes been in the moral high ground while fireing guns - however no one in the american army can say that while they are in the middle east.

If you a weapon into someone elses home, into someone elses country with the intent off killing people and stealing or securing resources and transport routes then i hope the defender wins.

I always side with the defender in wars of conquest or pillageing raids, how totally evil of me.

take this to your local recruiter

why? what do you think he'll say? Is he going to provide the rational and well reasoned pro-war argument which manages to justify the invasion and muder of brown people just so we can live our overly opulent lives while mainting the moral high ground? No of course he won't he'll ask me to please leave, just like anyone in the army i've ever suggested is part of an immoral murder squad has - they perfer debates settled with highcal ammo not sharp wits.

so tell me, why should i cry just because a murderer and theif dies?

Originally posted by NatureBoy
I'm not carpet bombing here

. . .

so tell me, why should i cry just because a murderer and theif dies?

Nope, not over-generalizing at all. After all everyone who signs up for the military and gets deployed is automatically a murderer and a thief.

reply to post by NatureBoy


My friend,

I feel sad for you, I really do.

A guy i went to school with was a tank commander out in the middle east last I heard. He was extremely intelligent. Went to Oxford, in fact. He is not a murderer. He is not a thief. He is a highly intelligent, highly educated officer of Her Majesty's armed forces and I salute his bravery. Whether I agree with the war is irrelevant. He is putting his life on the line, along with many others and I have the upmost respect for him and all other Forces personnel.

reply to post by Jenna


One is judged by the company one keeps.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Please elaborate. Your point appears lost on me, and I'm sure jenna would appreciate a little explantion.

Thank you,

Cado.

reply to post by cado angelus


What, do i have to draw you a diagram? If you lie down with dogs you are bound to get fleas. Cliches are cliches for a reason. They contain the grain of truth. Personally if you want to fight your better off being a merc. The pay is better.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


I'm going to have to second Cado's post and ask what on earth that's supposed to mean. You've completely lost me.

Edit: You posted while I was typing. Your point is dependent on a horribly undeserved generalization about members of the military.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Jenna]

Originally posted by NatureBoy
If you a weapon into someone elses home, into someone elses country with the intent off killing people and stealing or securing resources and transport routes then i hope the defender wins.

I always side with the defender in wars of conquest or pillageing raids, how totally evil of me.

Conquest and pillaging? Well, if that's what was really going on, the US is doing a crappy job of it.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
No of course he won't he'll ask me to please leave, just like anyone in the army i've ever suggested is part of an immoral murder squad has - they perfer debates settled with highcal ammo not sharp wits.

Actually, you'll probably be asked whether you want your teeth in your pocket or in your hand. A large majority of the recruiters are combat vets; they don't like to hear someone talking smack about their dead friends.

Sharp wit?

Originally posted by NatureBoy
so tell me, why should i cry just because a murderer and theif dies?

First stupid, now murderers and thieves. And just who was whining about insults?

Originally posted by concernedcitizan
reply to post by cado angelus

 

What, do i have to draw you a diagram? If you lie down with dogs you are bound to get fleas. Cliches are cliches for a reason. They contain the grain of truth. Personally if you want to fight your better off being a merc. The pay is better.

So, you are calling the military dogs? I hope that was just a poor choice of metaphor. And regarding your offer of a diagram. Yes, please, that would be nice. It might help me understand you hatred towards the military. I think that you have chosen the wrong word when you say cliche. I think you actually mean stereotype. Stereotypes are not based on a grain of truth at all. They are based on ignorance, narrowmindedness and intolerance.

Suggesting that if you want to fight you are better off being a mercenary is missing the point somewhat.

Many soldiers are not there to fight. They are there to do a job. To find discipline, perhaps. For the brother/sisterhood.

What about army medics?
What about chaplains?
Engineers?
PR?
Admin?
Chefs?

You are coming across as not thinking things through, IMHO, and I do, genuinely, apologise if that offends you. It is not my intention. However, your tone suggests that you are angry and in turn that suggests that your brain is not necessarily open to new ideas at the moment. Reptilian (not in the Icke sense) brain kicking in and all that, eh?!

Perhaps you should stop stereotyping. Start listening. Start thinking rather than reacting, start engaging and reflecting and you will see things from a new perspective which may, perhaps, make you feel better about the messed up world which you see around you.

Your friend,

Cado.