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More Cracks in the Obamacare Facade: No Insurance? Can't Pay Fee? Go To Jail!

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posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead.


www.politico.com...

"Obamacare: Buy insurance or go to jail! "
drudgereport.com...

Add this insult to the other lies and injuries revealed since the joint-session pep talk on Obamacare.

Anyone keeping track?

Thus far:

  • "47 million uninsured" become "30 million unable to get insurance"
  • Illegal aliens get amnesty to get coverage (takes 12 million out of the ranks, and avoids the "You lie" enforcement 'oversight')
  • False "anecdotes" used in the address about "denied" coverage and delayed diagnoses
  • Pelosi's taxes on employers, and employees' insurance policies
  • Doctor shortages resulting from adding '47 million' new patients to health care rolls
  • Baucus Bill 35% excise tax on employees' coverage

"Cracks in the Obamacare Facade"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sure I've missed some. I sure there'll be more.

This isn't what he "promised," is it?

jw




posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Just think this is only the stuff that is in it now. Just wait untill all the last minute pork gets thrown into it.


Excellent post.
S&F


[edit on 9/25/2009 by sad_eyed_lady]



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 
Since Obama has thus far refused to honor his pledge and order to post all pending bills on the internet for 5 days for "review" before signing them, I'm certain that whatever comes from Congress will be rushed into law. Again.

Who knows what new surprises will be in store for us in "reform."

jw



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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I just saw this and also posted at the same time.
Here is the letter:



I feel like I am living in a nightmare. We can't allow the federal government to have this kind of power and control over the people. When will America stand up and say enough?



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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I just have a question I dont know if I read that right. Americans who dont have health insurance can get fined or put in jail or both. And illigal immigrants who dont have health insurance its ok for them not to. I guess we are penalized so they can have enough money to pay for the illigal immigrants health care?



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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Hmm..wait a minute. It does not say anything about Health care. That section is for filing tax returns, I did'nt found any Health care related stuff. Silly propoganda..check your facts before posting such a hoax threads.



Internal Revenue Code Section 7203 Section 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting ''felony'' for ''misdemeanor'' and ''5 years'' for ''1 year''.

Source: www.assetprotectionbook.com...

and



§ 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax How Current is This? Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting “felony” for “misdemeanor” and “5 years” for “1 year”.

Source: www.law.cornell.edu...

[edit on 25-9-2009 by December_Rain]



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by isa75
I just have a question I dont know if I read that right. Americans who dont have health insurance can get fined or put in jail or both. And illigal immigrants who dont have health insurance its ok for them not to. I guess we are penalized so they can have enough money to pay for the illigal immigrants health care?


No, Obama wants to legalize the illegal immigrants and then imprison them alongside the rest of us if they refuse to buy insurance.

It's all quite simple, really.

We now live in Hell. That's it, so simple.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Dude did you even bothered to read my last post. It's a hoax. That sec 7203 has nothing to do with Healthcare it is related to tax returns.


+4 more 
posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 



WRONG!

Ensign's original question pertained to what would happen if someone refused to buy the mandated insurance AND refused to pay the unlawful (my word) fine the government has proposed for those who refuse to carry insurance. That fine is to be an estimated $1,900 fine and is called to be imposed upon the individual by the IRS. Thus, the response that failure to pay the fine would be prosecutable under the tax code.

Obama is a lying scumbag and this proves it. The healthcare reforms he's pushing for, with the included penalty for noncoverage being enforced by the IRS, PROVE that he is raising taxes on the middle class of America. Something he promised not to do. Liar, liar, pants on fire!



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by December_Rain
 


you may be on to something. But isn't the amount Congress wants to charge people not called a tax? That would mean if people don't pay it they are in violation of the tax code.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Dude did you even bothered to read my last post. It's a hoax. That sec 7203 has nothing to do with Healthcare it is related to tax returns.


NOT A HAOX.

The handwritten note was not in response to a direct question on healthcare but, rather, on a direct question about the penalty for not going along with the government mandate for coverage.

Read: www.politico.com...


Americans who fail to pay the penalty for not buying insurance would face legal action from the Internal Revenue Service, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

The remarks Thursday from the committee's chief of staff, Thomas Barthold, seems to further weaken President Barack Obama's contention last week that the individual mandate penalty, which could go as high as $1,900, is not a tax increase.

Under questioning from Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.), Barthold said the IRS would "take you to court and undertake normal collection proceedings."


Still want to try and deflect the truth by calling it a hoax?



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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How the hell do they think we can pay for insurance, There are so many

unemployed now, and its going to get worse, is the government insane?

And if we can't pay, we get fined, if we dont pay we go to jail!!!

I thought I lived in America!!! What happened to our RIGHTS, OUR

CHOICES??.....OUR FREEDOMS.....imo they are no more!!!!

S&F



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 05:06 PM
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It is a tax, but more importantly it is all about taking a person's right to choose not to have coverage away. Some young people, perhaps just out of college or working in a lower paying job where they are literally living from paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford health insurance will be forced to get coverage that will leave them broke, these are the people who will learn what they lost here first. Freedom!

These are the people who already can't afford to go to the doctor because they literally can barely afford to pay for a roof over their heads and food alone... And the Obama administration wants to take that away from them.

How much will it take to break your budget?

You will pay, one way or the other. You will have no choice, you can be fined, and even sent to jail.

You want health care reform.... Go for it.


The end game in health care reform is for the government to expand further than ever before by taking over one of the largest capitalist systems in the US economy.

Just look long and hard at what has already been nationalized, and imagine what it will mean for this government to also have control over health care.

Change eh?



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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so, let's see....
I can't afford the healthcare, even with the insurance, so I am ignoring the problems till they are intolerable, or longer if I can help it.
I've been kind of just patiently waiting till my husband finds a job, and well, then I'll decide if I want to keep mine....I'm just tired of hurting like heck and feeling crappier that crap!
so, well, let me get this straight here...
I can't afford the healthcare I need now to continue working.
can't afford the health insurance without an employer that is throwing in the bulk of it, which, he wouldn't pay if I wasn't working for him.
if I am not working, can't afford their stupid 16oo or whatever fine...
can't afford that, so they are gonna throw me in jail for a year (hey did ya know, prisoners get free healthcare!!!), and zap me with a 25000 fine or whatever because I don't have the money for the 1600 fine....
umm...trying to get blood out of a rock comes to mind!

but, I guess it gives them a good excuse to not lock up all the bank frauds out there that raked in billions in that nice housing scam!! all the jails will be filled with us poor saps who couldn't afford health care if our lives depended on it!!
and all the while, while you husband, your spouse, or child is in jail, they will still be taking money from you wallet, so that the "poor" will have their healthcare paid for compliments of you.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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You only pay tax or file returns when you actually own something like insurance, so it is not that the guy received the letter for fine for not buying Insurance. He received the letter for fine for not paying his tax on the insurance he already has. What else do you expect? To get away with fraud?



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 05:50 PM
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And the U.S. Senate doesn't want their bill posted for people to read? Why all this drama for a system that won't be put into effect until 2013? As the very strange Trafficant from Ohio used to say when he as at the podium, speaking to his colleagues in Congress, "Scotty! Beam me up! There is no intelligent life here!



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Some young people, perhaps just out of college or working in a lower paying job where they are literally living from paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford health insurance will be forced to get coverage that will leave them broke, these are the people who will learn what they lost here first. Freedom!

These are the people who already can't afford to go to the doctor because they literally can barely afford to pay for a roof over their heads and food alone...


Well............I am not young and fresh out of college BUT myself and my mom live from pay check to pay check!! And, I believe, there are alot of others like myself out there.

Mom's so called SS will not pay for all her medical needs and I can only bring in around $1000 a monthly. There is no way in hell I could afford health insurance!! Fortunately, I have a compassionate doctor who charges very low fee for self pay clients and I can pay it out @ $20 a month. But, I only go to see her if it becomes necessary - as it did this last week.

Funny.........but because of my medical problems I am not able to get a job makiing extremely good wages - with medical coverage and all. Fact is, I would have a hard time handling more than the 30-35 hrs a week I get now!!

]Guess my 76 yr old mom will rot away, with no one helping her, when they lock my up for not being able to afford medical insurance, huh?!??!?!?

Just makes me want to spit fire..............



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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The Peoples Republic of Taxachusetts already has a similar mandatory health care plan. No wonder the insurance companies are not screaming. You WILL have to pay them whether you want to or not



- The remaining 200,000 uninsured are deemed to be able to afford health insurance, and will be required to do so by 2008 or be assessed substantial annual tax penalties and/or wage garnishments. usliberals.about.com...



No wonder the insurance companies are not screaming. You WILL HAVE TO pay them whether you want to or not. You will not have the choice. At the rate they are going we might just as well be slaves...

So much for "free Healthcare" it should be called the "health Insurance rip off bill" so it matches the "Food Safety Con Job bill"

By the time both the bills are through with the us we will be starving on the streets.





posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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You can look at it any way you want, but the truth is that for many people who will fall into the income levels that require coverage this will mean that they will be forced to get coverage they cannot afford... Or else.

It is the only way the government run system can work, a combination of controlling services and treatments along with forcing people without coverage to pay is the only way the government can do it without massive costs.

That all must be done before they can get to a single payer system that is truly affordable for all.

It doesn't matter what I or anyone says at this point, if they pass health care reform there are certain things that must be in it.

The economy is bad and getting worse, people are trying to survive as best they can, those who are working will have to pay for those who are not... That fact will not be missed in the final version of health care reform legislation, nor will the ultimate massive controlling bureaucracy that will control costs in heath care. These points are not negotiable.

Either reform passes or it does not.

It's a matter of time now.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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I am just wondering how long till the first lawsuit is brought up on the validity of that a person does not have a job, getting very low pay and has no means to get health insurance, due to the cost? And what the process would be, as this makes absolutely no sense. I am living from paycheck to paycheck, it is spent before I get to it, as I am taxed heavily, have no health insurance what so ever. I work less hours than a part time person, so now I have to spend what little money I have to get health insurance, that will not cover me?





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