Does this look like America to you?

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posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by JWH44
reply to post by kosmicjack
 


As I said, there are bad apples, just like any other job in the world. But we do not tolerate it. If nothing else, all I want to get across is that, when you see someone in uniform with a badge, don't immediately assume that we are the Gestapo. Don't judge us all from the actions of the few that tarnish the badge.




Ramirez Peyro, a former Mexican police officer, while working as an informant for ICE, participated in the first murder, which was carried out as part of his assignment to infiltrate a cell of the ruthless Vicente Carrillo Fuentes narco-trafficking organization. After informing his ICE handlers of his role in that initial murder, Ramirez Peyro was authorized by ICE and the Department of Justice, including the office of then-U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, to continue on his informant assignment — resulting in at least 11 more murders (many of them reported to ICE in advance by Ramirez Peyro) and the near assassination of a DEA agent and his family.

... the Department of Homeland Security initiated deportation proceedings against Ramirez Peyro in 2005. His case has been tied up in the courts ever since — with an immigration judge twice ruling in favor of granting him deferral from deportation under the U.N. Convention Against Torture (CAT) and the Justice Department-controlled Board of Immigration Appeals (BIA) twice ruling against Ramirez Peyro — to date


The leader of the Cartel "cell" was given a plea deal for helping discredit whistleblowers.
ICE Informant story

Yeah the gov't police forces are really looking out for us. They let snitches murder 12 people. They put the life of their agents on the line, then when informants tell what is happening they try to kill them. When that threat doesn't work they plea bargain with the criminals they arrest to discredit whistle blowers.

I know this seems off topic but it isn't. This shows a systematic disregard for life that infects the DEA, ICE, and DOJ.

Now we see this weekend that; Pen. State Police, Pitt Police, and cops from several other states; don't mind attacking students gathered to sing songs. They don't mind macing kids trying to go out for pizza and a beer. They don't even mind trapping kids on a breezeway and tossing tear gas in with them.

Tell me where I am supposed to see the humanity in the police force? Tell me where I am supposed to see that they care about the lives of one person that I know.

I get it. They are following orders and violating the few for the protection of the most. Funny thing is, I remember some German officers saying nearly the same thing. Where does the slippery slope end?

As a side note, I would like my fellow ATSers to pray, send good vibes, or what ever, to the family of Luis Padilla. He was a US citizen allowed to die in Mexico's house of horrors because ICE refused to intervene. He was by all accounts a family man and an honest man. Now his wife is a widow.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by MikeNice81]




posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by JWH44
This is my first post although I have watched these forums for a couple years. I will be very open with you all and tell you that I work in a management position with a Federal Law Enforcement Agency. I am very open minded and also feel that there are many dangers facing our country that you all clearly see as well and discuss. I admire the spirit that you all display in your concern for our country's well-being.


Well said.


That being said, I take great offense with the above-quoted post. Your sweeping generalization of all law enforcement officers as being jack-booted thugs is the kind of rhetoric that only shows how narrow-minded you are. You generalize us all to be power-hungry monsters, yet you disregard the dangers we face and the sacrifices we make to protect those that we serve. Am I saying that there aren't bad apples? Off course not; that would be ignorant on my behalf.


Yes, that is a sweeping generalization, but in this context, I feel that it is accurate. Good Apples in law enforcement are the exception today, not the rule, and even those few police officers who are not corrupt don't appear to be stopping those who are. Maybe you are a Good Apple, but if you are put in the apple barrel with a bunch of Rotten Apples, eventually your're going to stink just like the rest of them.


Your words only make our jobs harder.


Good. It would appear that your job is to intimidate the public and produce revenue for your employer, the corporate olagarchy (i.e. the prison-legal-industrial complex), and enforce the political insanity of the state. We incarcerate a higher percentage of our population than any other empire in human history. If that is your job, then I'm happy to make it as difficult as possible for you. Yep, that's a good thing.


You encourage confrontation with law enforcement with your remarks, then cry foul when you see the results. You can never imagine the headaches we endure to protect those that need it, yet you have the luxury of Monday-morning quarterbacking everything we do.


Perhaps if the results were not almost always so bad for the civillians involved, we wouldn't have to cry foul. I never encourage confrontation with law enforcement under any circumstances. Why invite a vampire into your house? I believe the lawyers that say nothing good ever comes from talking to the police. Everything in my experiance and those of others that I know would confirm that.


You can spend hours replaying a video that supposedly captures someone's rights being violated without having to make a split-second life or death decision or knowing the context of the encounter.


No. I only watch those types of things once. If I want more porno for facists, I'll watch "Cops" or "DEA".


Are there videos which do show excessive use of force? Absolutely. And of course, those are the ones that are spread around the internet like wildfire.


And there should not be ANY!!!
The fact that there are so many means this is happening all the time. If this behavior is what was caught on camera, imagine how much more brutality wasn't caught on camera.


You may never see the video of the officer that is shot and killed just because of the uniform he wears; never hear the audio of that video as he pleads for his life and cries our with his dying breath. You never see the video of his supervisor having to tell his wife and children that their husband and father will never be coming home.


Nor do we see the videos of planted evidence, entrapment, execution, torture, extortion and all the other tools law enforcement uses to ruin lives and send what are often non-violent people to places where they have to become monsters to survive.


Yet we are all monsters...


I'm pretty certain the word I used was traitors and we'll get to that in a minute.


Your words disgrace those officers who have given their lives to protect those that could not protect themselves.


Like the ones at Columbine where the police sat outside for 3 hours while crazy punks executed people at will unopposed? How many cops died? How many civilians? Oh, that's right. "A dead cop can't save anybody." Well, neither did any live ones on that day. Ditto on Waco.


I had to get that off my chest. I'm sure my first post, coupled with my stated profession will make me anything but popular here. I see that your post was given several stars, so obviously there are many here that feel the way you do.


More than you know, and not just on this forum. To many, many Americans, you seem to see yourselves as, and have tried to set yourslves up as, a different, somehow special social class seperate from the rest of us. What makes a police officer's murder anymore horrible than a housewife's murder? Nothing, but you will pull out all the stops, beat all the bushes, terrorize the informants, and spend buttloads of money to catch the cop killer while the housewife is just another homicide. As if the life of a cop is somehow more important than the life of a housewife. You wont say that is what you have been trained to believe but your reactions say different.

You perpetuate the Us vs. Them model of public interaction by militarizing your organization in everything from uniforms, to ranks, to your lowered intelligence standards in recruiting. Fear will never replace or be as effective as respect. Law enforcement in this country, in this century appears to be fine setting for fear.


To all of you I can only ask this; like any other group, avoid stereotypes and generalizations and think about the farther reaching effects of you comments.


I consider my comments carefully and intend them to have an effect, far-reaching if I'm lucky.


While I cannot speak on behalf of the entire Federal Government, I can safely say that we are not here to harm you.


But you do harm us! You allow big business to poison us, drug us, and program us. You enforce laws that serve no other purpose than to keep your corporate masters in power, then you let those same masters and each other walk on what you put the rest of us in jail for. You help them tax us at every turn and fine us or imprison us at every opportunity, real or fabricated. You allow those to stay among your numbers who abuse their authority and power. You expect repect from us that you haven't earned, or have sold for profit, and then tase us when we don't give it to you as fast as you'd like. You DO harm us!


I have taken an Oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and I can tell you that we take that very seriously.


I do not use the term "Traitor" lightly or with any satisfaction.

You Sir, have posted an articulate, reasonable, and certainly heartfelt response to my post. I appreaciate that. You do make some good points.

You may very well be an exception to what more and more citizens are starting to figure out, namely that our entire government system, from the fat-cat congress critter, through the states on down to the counties and local law enforcement is hopelessly corrupt and hypocritical.

But if you, Sir, are not wiping your behind with the Bill Of Rights, it is highly likely that you are looking the other way while others are. To me, that would make you a Traitor. If you condone the policies that have stormtroupers using sound weapons on peaceful demonstrations and protests carried out by American citizens as shown in the first video, then to me, that would make you a Traitor. If you can stand by while your law enforcement brothers terrorize the public with pain complience and not condemn it or refuse to be a part of it, to me, that would make you a Traitor. If you would allow yourself to be used as a tool of those who's goal it is to enslave and control what was once a free society, then to me, that would definately make you a Traitor.

Perhaps none of that applies to you. Perhaps it does. If you know for a fact that my comments are untrue, then you really shouldn't take offense.


Thank you for your time.


Thank you, and if your law enforcement service is honorable, honest, and just then thanks for that as well.

The sad fact is, that if you can't tell the difference between poisonous snakes and non-poisonous snakes, you pretty much have to treat ALL snakes as poisonous if you want to survive, don't you?



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44

Originally posted by Ambient Sound


Face it, to want to be a Cop in this country, in this century, you pretty much have to be a power-hungry thug who just wants to be with the best equiped street gang. They no longer care if we respect them, only that we fear them.

Traitors. Every one of them.


Before I reply to your post, let me start by introducing myself.

This is my first post although I have watched these forums for a couple years. I will be very open with you all and tell you that I work in a management position with a Federal Law Enforcement Agency. I am very open minded and also feel that there are many dangers facing our country that you all clearly see as well and discuss. I admire the spirit that you all display in your concern for our country's well-being.

That being said, I take great offense with the above-quoted post. Your sweeping generalization of all law enforcement officers as being jack-booted thugs is the kind of rhetoric that only shows how narrow-minded you are. You generalize us all to be power-hungry monsters, yet you disregard the dangers we face and the sacrifices we make to protect those that we serve. Am I saying that there aren't bad apples? Off course not; that would be ignorant on my behalf.

Your words only make our jobs harder. You encourage confrontation with law enforcement with your remarks, then cry foul when you see the results. You can never imagine the headaches we endure to protect those that need it, yet you have the luxury of Monday-morning quarterbacking everything we do. You can spend hours replaying a video that supposedly captures someone's rights being violated without having to make a split-second life or death decision or knowing the context of the encounter. Are there videos which do show excessive use of force? Absolutely. And of course, those are the ones that are spread around the internet like wildfire. You may never see the video of the officer that is shot and killed just because of the uniform he wears; never hear the audio of that video as he pleads for his life and cries our with his dying breath. You never see the video of his supervisor having to tell his wife and children that their husband and father will never be coming home. Yet we are all monsters...

Your words disgrace those officers who have given their lives to protect those that could not protect themselves.

I had to get that off my chest. I'm sure my first post, coupled with my stated profession will make me anything but popular here. I see that your post was given several stars, so obviously there are many here that feel the way you do. To all of you I can only ask this; like any other group, avoid stereotypes and generalizations and think about the farther reaching effects of you comments. While I cannot speak on behalf of the entire Federal Government, I can safely say that we are not here to harm you. I have taken an Oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and I can tell you that we take that very seriously.

Thank you for your time.


Glad you got all that off your chest. Now maybe YOU (being a management level insider) can actually try to do something about this.

By doing something I don't mean getting your panties in a wad because people are angry at seeing the cops they pay for being used to attack peaceful citizens who dare to protest the path our government is taking. I mean using your position to try to change things from the inside and make the word "cop" mean someone there to protect you and your property - not some there to gas you because he's 'just following orders'.

Want the American people to NOT look at you as if you are a traitor? Then be a hero. No, I don't mean a hero because you do a good job most of the time. I mean being a hero when it is HARD and may even cost you your job.

I want to see cops who refuse to abuse. Cops with real guts.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by JWH44
 





. Our job is to uphold the law, not break it. As I have said, I have actively investigated and seen former colleagues of mine pay the price for those sorts of acts. Believe me when I tell you; my Agency is very busy fighting corruption, violations of civil rights and abuse of power.


I hope many of us here are aware there are a lot of good people in Law enforcement. It is a very tough job and I do not envy you. I was a Quality Control Engineer, a factory policemen if you will, so I have an idea of how hard your job can be and how often you end up between a rock and a hard place.

Unfortunately these videos are much more dangerous because people like me have lost faith in the honesty of our government. The following is a well documented case of an investigation that has gone all the way up to a Congressional investigation. Instead of arrests and changes in the department involved, Congress is currently pushing through bills that not only protect the criminals who have killed Americans but are setting up regulations guarranteed to criminalize their competitors and stripping them of their assets. With this as an example of how completely corrupt the federal government has become, it is hard not to lash out at their representatives, LEO and any other government employees.

I realize we do have peaceful means to make the necessary changes and I hope they work before this country goes up like a powder keg. I am working on weekends towards those peaceful means. Personally I do not like protests for the very reason seen in the videos.

Here are links to that illustrate the corruption in the US government.

Just after the World Trade Organization was passed. The USDA abandoned our food safety Regs and instituted the new international HACCP regs. Legislators overlook serious flaw in USDA’s HACCP food-safety system—while promoting its adoption by FDA

HACCP did not work and diseased food entered the market. John Munsell tried to alert the USDA and even Congress. Then, in July 2002, Munsell's worst fears came true. E. coli-tainted burger from Greeley killed an Ohio woman and sickened at least 35 others. "After months of lobbying, he persuaded Senator Burns to convene a congressional hearing"

This was not the only hearing. In his testimony:Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals: stated he receive reports from union members that regulations are not uniformly enforced. Painter wrote to the Assistant FSIS Administrator for Field Operation about the enforcement problem. USDA responded by placed Painter on disciplinary investigation status and contacts the USDA Office of Inspector General about filing criminal charges.

Stan Painter: "It (the recall of Hallmark/Westland Meat) highlights one of the problems that we have attempted to raise with the agency ever since 1996 when the Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points (HACCP) inspection system was put in place. There seems to be too much reliance on an honor system for the industry to police itself. While the USDA investigation is still on going at Hallmark/Westland, a couple of facts have emerged that point to a system that can be gamed by those who want to break the law. It (HACCP) shifted the responsibility for food safety over to the companies."
Gov Doc

Essentially nothing was ever done about the real problem, HACCP rules and Corporate favoritism. Instead the corporations, news media and Congress pointed the finger at the farmer and the "solution" is massive regulation that will completely wipe out independent food growers right down to our back yard gardens. The result will be complete corporate control of our food supply not "safer" food.

History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job and Food Safety Bills: More Dangerous than the Patriot Act give a pretty good history of the gradual take over of the US and world food supply. As a Conspiracy buff I hope you read it.

With the awareness of that scandal, the overwhelming negative response to the Federal Reserve and the Bank bail outs that has been completely ignored by our supposed representatives and now these videos, I and many others are waiting for the other shoe to drop. With the UN wanting a new global currency to replace dollar - the loss of "hard currency" status for the dollar and all our exported inflation coming home to roost Obama's going to have a lot more to worry about than whether his idiotic Health Care bill passes. I would not be a front-line cop today for all the gold and silver in China. Just remember WE are you countrymen not the Corporations and Bankers who have raped all of us.








posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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This is EXACTLY what America looks like.

2nd line.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Very scary indeed, s & f for the OP.


I'd love to get arrested then fight it in court, I'd bet my money that I'd win if I had a good lawyer. I'd be breaking the law, technically but I'd want to stand up and fight for my first amendment right, a right which the officers swore to up hold amongst other rights. This is one of the reasons I honestly feel I couldn't ever become an officer because of the increasing unconstitutional acts they must perform. I guess when they took there oath they did not take it serious or had too much wax in there ears to hear.

What's even more disgusting is the fact that there was many world leaders in the city, supposedly from "democratic" countries. This might show the state of the world, not just the US.

These demonstrations were very weak and goes to show that Americans are too busy or don't care about there country. I'd like to see what we saw with the Tea Party in Washington DC, rather in Pittsburgh. Firstly it would be much more difficult to push under the rug. Secondly I doubt they can dis burst 2 million plus people.

How many times do we need scream until we are blue in the face, I may need to conserve my voice, my energies for a later time. I feel as though dusk is upon us and it could be too late to change.

For those who wanted your New World Order, you will have it soon. But you are too lost to realize you lost your soul in the process, you sold out to something that has no lasting value. End result is you sold out for a piece of paper. No amount of paper will buy out of what's coming, the laws of the Universe care not for your "wealth".

What's the saying I'm looking for;
"Those who are willing to give up freedoms for security shall have neither."


[edit on 26-9-2009 by oconnection]



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44


You generalize us all to be power-hungry monsters, yet you disregard the dangers we face and the sacrifices we make to protect those that we serve.


I think we all understand the dangers of the job of the law enforcement personel.
I also think we see the corruption of some of these people.
I fear my Government and its minions. I no longer believe that they are doing their job with My well being in mind.
My question to you is, Whom is it that you Serve?
Is it us the People, or the people that Pay You to do the Job they want you to do?
Would you fire on a fellow citizen who is fighting to uphold the Constituation? Or would you blindly follow orders from your employers?



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Disturbing thread.

"Hurr Durr, If they don't protest with us they're part of the problem!!1!"

No. They've come to a different conclusion than yourself. Calling them stupid or lazy because they don't mindlessly obey you... yeah, how marvelous. Insulting people that are different or who think differently. How patriotic.

"Police are EVIL!!"

Really? Remember that next time you have an emergency and need the police. To say that they're all corrupt or bad is ignorant. They're not all power hungry thugs. They are human beings who have joined the law enforcement profession for their own reasons. To claim to know their motives without ever meeting or speaking with them only makes you a delusional fool.


I'm getting tired of saying this. The further the fanatics move from reality, the further they take their counterparts (who think nothing is wrong and that the government is awesome) with them. Yes, I said fanatics. I'd say worse but profanity isn't really allowed. Only an insane fool would be so eager to shed the blood of their fellow citizens, lashing out at anyone who doesn't agree with them. Only an insane fool would rather go for a bloody revolution than a cultural revolution. Instead of educating people on better alternatives, it's SO much faster to just kill anyone who isn't in your clique and refused to conform. Why, a political inquisition would be AWESOME!!!

And yes, I did notice the bit of hypocrisy of my post. But then, I'm not pretending to be all knowing and always right. To be a model of perfection that all should strive to be.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by oconnection
 





I'd love to get arrested then fight it in court, I'd bet my money that I'd win if I had a good lawyer. I'd be breaking the law, technically but I'd want to stand up and fight for my first amendment right, a right which the officers swore to up hold amongst other rights. This is one of the reasons I honestly feel I couldn't ever become an officer because of the increasing unconstitutional acts they must perform. I guess when they took there oath they did not take it serious or had too much wax in there ears to hear.


Before any of us do that make sure as many people as possible find out about Jury nullification.

Actually helping other to become informed Americans and taking back our rights from the crooks in Washington DC is much better than protesting. I hand out cards on weekends at flea markets and farmers markets instead of protesting. I ask people to google, vote third party, and to inform ten others.

My Card:
Confessions of an Economic Hitman
The creature from Jekyll Island
Secrets of the Federal Reserve
History, Haccp and the food safety Con Job
Fully Informed Jury Assoc.



.....When they believe justice requires it, jurors can refuse to apply the law. Jurors have the power to consider whether the law itself is wrong (including whether it is "unconstitutional"), or is being applied for political reasons. Is the defendant being singled out as "an example" in order to demonstrate government muscle? Were the defendant's constitutional rights violated during the arrest? Much of today's "crime wave" consists of victimless crimes--crimes against the state, or "political crimes", so if you feel that a verdict of guilty would give the government too much power, or help keep a bad law alive, just remember that you can refuse to apply any law that violates your conscience......

fija.org...



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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How is it the National Guard was not deployed to the 9/12 DC Tea Party rally? There were far more protestors there than at the G20. Perhaps the difference, is that many of the G20 protestors want conflict, went there to cause destruction and anarchy, whereas the 9/12 protestors were peaceable. If the federal government were going to suppress the 1st Amendment, surely the Administration would have done so for the 9/12 rally. Seems to me the g20 'protestors' got exactly what they wanted.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by JWH44
I have taken an Oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and I can tell you that we take that very seriously.

Then do something. Gather enough evidence to put the final nail in the coffin of this government. If you all took an oath to uphold the constitution then do it, or you no longer have the right to say that because you will have betrayed that oath, and us.


Believe me when I tell you, my agency has no tolerance for violations of civil rights.

If your agency has no tolerance for violations of civil rights than surely your agency is publicly opposed to the patriot act right?


If nothing else, all I want to get across is that, when you see someone in uniform with a badge, don't immediately assume that we are the Gestapo.

When the day comes that we're not all looked at as human cattle to be beaten, abused, taxed, fined, lied to, and taken advantage of... Then maybe we can talk. You are our servants, but you have grown out of control just like our government.

The L.A. riots started when a jury acquitted these four Los Angeles Police Department officers accused in the videotaped beating of African-American motorist Rodney King. Thousands of people in the Los Angeles area rioted over six days. Widespread looting, assault, arson and murder occurred, and property damages were roughly 1 billion dollars. In all, 53 people died during the riots and thousands more were injured.

It's only a matter of time before the entire country is pushed too far.
One seemingly insignificant event like this will take place, and we'll all be standing in the ashes wondering what the hell happened, and why nobody did something sooner.

Nows your big chance. Find yourself a group of like-minded white-hats within the government, (if you haven't already) and release to the american public every piece of information you can get your hands on. Or you could wait for the day that we all flip out and burn it down instead, at this point there are some of us who would be glad to do it the governments way. Afterall, ashes are easy to clean up, and what do slaves have to lose?



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by stevegmu
 


I'll have to dig it up but one news channel said (CNN?) that DC was totally unprepared for that march.

made me laugh



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
How is it the National Guard was not deployed to the 9/12 DC Tea Party rally? There were far more protestors there than at the G20. Perhaps the difference, is that many of the G20 protestors want conflict, went there to cause destruction and anarchy, whereas the 9/12 protestors were peaceable. If the federal government were going to suppress the 1st Amendment, surely the Administration would have done so for the 9/12 rally. Seems to me the g20 'protestors' got exactly what they wanted.


Yes by all means let us overlook one egregious and over whelming blatant violation of the Constitution in one case because it did not happen in another?

Outstanding! Still serving foreign interests I see. Would be quite a pity to loose the goose that lays the golden egg now wouldn't it?

You obviously have not watched the videos, and if you have, you obviously care not to speak to the facts that surround the deployment of Riot Police and their firing of sophsiticated technological weapons of mass destruction on the innocent and peaceful mass they were used upon.

Instead you are more concerned about doing damage control and weaving less than artful justifications for the unjustifiable?

Why is that?



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk

Originally posted by JWH44

Your words disgrace those officers who have given their lives to protect those that could not protect themselves.


Federal law enforcement is quite different than local law enforcement. When people talk about 'police' they refer to the local agencies, county, and city. Federal and state law enforcement have a larger view.

If you wish to refer to 'disgrace' of officers that have gone by, I would say that the actions of officers that violate the Constitution of the United States disgrace all those officers more than anybody that exercises his/her free speech could. To put it honestly, the police need to clean up their own ranks of bad officers, or those bad officers will give the citizens impetus to clean up their ranks for them.


Perhaps you should again read the Constitution on Free Speech. First of all there is no such thing in constituion as Right To Free Speech but it is actually knows as Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression
which states

Bill of Rights
Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Source: www.law.cornell.edu...
www.usconstitution.net...

The Constitution does protect the freedom of speech of every citizen, and even of non-citizens — but only from restriction by the Congress (and, by virtue of the 14th Amendment, by state legislatures, too). There are plenty of other places where you could speak but where speech can and is suppressed. For example, freedom of speech can be and often is restricted in a work place, for example: employers can restrict your right to speak in the work place about politics, about religion, about legal issues, even about Desperate Housewives. The same restrictions that apply to the government do not apply to private persons, employers, or establishments. For another example, the government could not prohibit the sale of any newspaper lest it breech the freedom of the press. No newsstand, however, must carry every paper against its owners' wishes.

Point is if the protesters where not peacefull as per the US Constitution State/Law enforcement agency can prosecute them and that is what has happened.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by warrenb
 


The Administration may have claimed ignorance, but the government of DC had no problem closing of streets, directing traffic, and setting up port-a-johns. I guess someone knew, even if Mayor Fenty was out of town.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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The one thing I am always struck by when watching protests is the absolutely excessive show of force by law enforcement.

When someone is exercising their right to protest and assemble and are corralled, confined and heckled by Police in full riot gear, Armored cars and the like it seems like it very often comes off as a challenge.

If they didn't feel so much like cattle and criminals these things might very stay peaceful a larger part of the time.

By expecting them to riot and act as fools that is what you are going to get.



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
How is it the National Guard was not deployed to the 9/12 DC Tea Party rally? There were far more protestors there than at the G20. Perhaps the difference, is that many of the G20 protestors want conflict, went there to cause destruction and anarchy, whereas the 9/12 protestors were peaceable. If the federal government were going to suppress the 1st Amendment, surely the Administration would have done so for the 9/12 rally. Seems to me the g20 'protestors' got exactly what they wanted.


Further so you better understand Pittsburgh had 900 uniformed police officers. It is actually a little bit bigger and size and population than the district of Columbia.

Washington D.C. has over 22,000 uniformed police officers from the D.C. Police, National Park Service, Secret Service, FBI and others.

Pittsburgh swelled it's law enforcement capability to 4,000 officers from various other State, Federal and National Guard sources bringing into play over 40 different police and military agencies to field 4,000 officers.

That is still 18,000 officers shy of what the District has on the street every given day of the week.

Simply put the District did not need them and law enforcement in the nation's capitol would have been loathe to use weapons like the Sonic Cannon that creates collateral damage with the possible collateral being VIP's in the government.

Federal Troops were though brought in to the city for the Innaguration which was a first since the Civil War.



[edit on 26/9/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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Yes this looks like America, It also looks like the UK when we had the G20.

This is the future and it sickens me no end.

Things will get worse before they get better.





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