The first throes of Civil War are here, page 9
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reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 02:46 AM by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Lasheic


Ah, and you don't consider all of that arrogance to be included under the umbrella of decadence? As you like. You will see soon enough. Hindsight is, or at least can be, 20/20.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 03:53 AM by Lasheic
reply to post by CosmicEgg


Arrogance? That's a vague and nebulous term which could have multiple different situational outcomes when applied to multiple different scenarios. If you're just going to paint a wide swath of people with the word "Arrogant" as a defining characteristics, that's stereotyping and rather shallow.

I'm sure arrogance played a role in various outcomes of events. As did cowardice, and honor, and lust, and compassion, and inspiration, and greed, and nobility, and charity, etc. I could go on.

But as said... there's many, many contributing factors and events leading to the fall of the Roman Empire. Stressing arrogance as a significant factor to their downfall would be like suggesting that their taste for vodka prevented the Soviets from winning the Cold War. It doesn't work, because all cultures have their taste for alcohol (just as arrogance is a common human trait in all cultures). Worse, claiming "arrogance" as any special factor to be applied to the whole of the Roman Empire's history of decline is oversimplifying the events, issues, social dynamics, the conflicts to near worthlessness by replacing context with projections of detested characteristics within a steretype.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by Lasheic]


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 09:36 AM by December_Rain
On the OP, my views are it is pure propoganda to incite violence and uprest.
Keeping in mind the subject mentioned on the OP I will take it 1 at a time-

We have Military abductions


b⋅duc⋅tion
1  /æbˈdʌkʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ab-duhk-shuhn] Show IPA
Use abduction in a Sentence
–noun
1. act of abducting.
2. the state of being abducted.
3. Law. the illegal carrying or enticing away of a person, esp. by interfering with a relationship, as the taking of a child from its parent.

Please clear me how was that an abduction? Do you have proof that the person was not involved in something illegal? How do you know he was not booked for crimes and surely murdered or abducted forever? All I am asking is for facts nothing more. The video shows the 2 min clip of person being taken away but it does not show why it warranted a person be "arrested" or what happened after the arrest. The way you are stating it I'd assume you do have some evidence to backup your claims


Kids singing songs that worship the president to the tune of religious hymns,

Please correct me if I am wrong. The teacher had no relation with Obama. Do you have any evidence to say that it was a mandatory programme being ordered by US President or even US Govt? Yes, a photographed scanned and uploaded picture with Presdential seal would do or some official document. Do you have any evidence to prove that the teacher did not acted in her own capacity? Are you saying Obama or some of his official US Govt. ppl contacted the teacher and asked her to teach childrens sing about Obama, if so I would like to see your evidence pls.


Census workers getting murdered with the word FED etched into their bodies.

Are you implying US Federal/Govt officials murdered census workers and then themselves etched "FED" on their chest? Is it not like saying a thief commits a burgalrly and then leaves his adress on the property so people can know who he/she is? In my entire life I have never ever come across such a thief or a murderer. Perhaps, Sir since you are implying Govt. did that then you may have access to some evidence that proves your claims, may we see it? And I hope you are aware that falesly accussing govt. without evidence makes you liable for prescution.

Isn't these 3 links as source you have provided on OP to "prove" the first throes of "Civil War" are here? Please give me some facts and evidence to ascertain the truth in your claims. I hope I am not asking for much.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 10:03 AM by ziggystrange
reply to post by December_Rain


Thanks you DR,

You won't get any rational responses here.

This thread is Y.A.A.F.

Yet Another ATS Fable.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 11:21 AM by titorite
reply to post by December_Rain





Originally posted by December_Rain
On the OP, my views are it is pure propoganda to incite violence and uprest.


Well that is quite the Tall accusation on your part isn't?

I am no propaganda master or anything like that. I am just a guy on ATS who was posting his observations about where I think the US is at... I think we are in the beginning throes of a civil war. A civil war is not declared all at once but is the result of a culmination of factors.



Please clear me how was that an abduction? Do you have proof that the person was not involved in something illegal? How do you know he was not booked for crimes and surely murdered or abducted forever? All I am asking is for facts nothing more. The video shows the 2 min clip of person being taken away but it does not show why it warranted a person be "arrested" or what happened after the arrest.


That was an abduction in the middle of a protest. No cuffs were put on, no rights were read. This is the type of thing they do in China. A car pulls up, people grab you ,and you disappear. You may claim that was not an abduction but you would only be making false claims.


Kids singing songs that worship the president to the tune of religious hymns,

Please correct me if I am wrong. The teacher had no relation with Obama.


You are wrong. The person who filmed the video went to college with Obama. She also wrote an biography called "I am Barak Obama" You can see the poster for that book in the back round of that video. MOST DISTURBINGLY is the fact that the kids are singing one part in a cadence and the second part to the Hymn of a religious song. The mixing of religion and politics for kids edification of the president is WRONG!


Census workers getting murdered with the word FED etched into their bodies.

Are you implying US Federal/Govt officials murdered census workers and then themselves etched "FED" on their chest?


I imply no such thing so do not make false assumptions.

That sad soul was murdered. I think he went onto the wrong persons property and said wrong person over reacted. With in that over reaction is a very bad sign...

Please give me some facts and evidence to ascertain the truth in your claims. I hope I am not asking for much.


You should of read more of the thread were I pointed out other issues I did not bring up in the OP..... You have some reading to do to find you answer.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by titorite]



reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 01:12 PM by concernedcitizan
reply to post by autowrench


This is America. People can't even agree on where to go for lunch.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 01:19 PM by December_Rain
reply to post by titorite



That was an abduction in the middle of a protest. No cuffs were put on, no rights were read. This is the type of thing they do in China. A car pulls up, people grab you ,and you disappear. You may claim that was not an abduction but you would only be making false claims.


Pleease dont compare with China or anyother country. All I am asking of is for a fact or legitimate source which tells me:-
1. That was actually an abduction.
2. The proof that the person was not involved in something illegal.
3. How do you know he was not booked for crimes and surely murdered or abducted forever?


You are wrong. The person who filmed the video went to college with Obama. She also wrote an biography called "I am Barak Obama" You can see the poster for that book in the back round of that video. MOST DISTURBINGLY is the fact that the kids are singing one part in a cadence and the second part to the Hymn of a religious song. The mixing of religion and politics for kids edification of the president is WRONG!


I am not aware who filmed the video can you provide a name and perhaps a link to source which states the person is an official spokeswoman/man for Obama or USA Govt.? I am sure you were quite disturbed watching the video, my sympathies for you. But again:

1. Do you have any evidence to say that it was a mandatory programme being ordered by US President or even US Govt?
2. Do you have any evidence to prove that the teacher did not acted in her own capacity?
3. Are you saying Obama or some of his official US Govt. ppl contacted the teacher and asked her to teach childrens sing about Obama, if so I would like to see your evidence pls.


I imply no such thing so do not make false assumptions. That sad soul was murdered. I think he went onto the wrong persons property and said wrong person over reacted. With in that over reaction is a very bad sign...


So if you are not implying that then why have you included that Census Murder link in the same sentence where you are implying school childrens are singing relegious/ political songs for Obama on the insistence of govt. and citizens are being abducted by US Govt officers? How does a murder of a citizen which is not even investigated completely till now related to Obama and US Govt? Or are you trying to imply that more murders are taking place under Obama Presidency?

Well if so let me present here some facts:
Last 5 years Data for murders commited in USA
2005 16,740
2006 17,030
2007 16,929
2008 16,272
Source: www.disastercenter.com...
www.fbi.gov...

The census does not have data for 2009 yet, but I fail to see how violent crimes are related to US Govt. Perhaps some facts or links which can show me how it is connected to Obama and US Govt. wiill help.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 01:22 PM by harrytuttle
"The first throes of Civil War are here"

No they are not. Do you have any idea how wrong you are?

First of all, civilians are NOT fighting civilians. So by definition it ain't gonna be no "Civil War".

Secondly, nothing has occurred that future historians would ever categorize as a "throe".

If you are referring to the G-20 summit, well, that's just a protest. It happens all the time. It's not a war, it's a protest. Riot Control brutality does not qualify as a form of "Civil War" because they aren't "civilians", they are Military & Law Enforcement Officers working for the Government.

Secondly, if anything is going to occur, it would be called a "Revolution", not a Civil War. Civilians aren't planning on fighting civilians. If anything, there are few armchair revolutionaries (like yourself) conveying a large disgust with the U.S. Government and want to over throw it. In that case, that's called a "Revolution".

Either way, Your Revolution Will Never Happen


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 01:24 PM by Luminaught
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

I have had the honor to know many great fighting men, and to serve with some.
I do not know of a war lost by grammar or spelling, though in poetry there is the kingdom that was lost for the want of a two penny nail.
I can hear the battle cry now..."We have come here to study spelling,break things and kill people, and we forgot our spelling books on the bus!"

PAPER WARRIOR QUIZ!
1.
Which is correct?
A. Honor.
B. Honour.
C. On her.
( )
2.
Which is correct?
A. Kill the enemy.
B. Kill the enemy's goverment.
C. Destroy the enemy's village.
( )
3.
Which is correct?
A. War is a huge spelling bee.
B. War is won or lost by bad grammar.
C. War is fought for old men by frightened kids.
( )
4.
Multiple Choice:
The first president of the U.S.A. was?
A. Abraham Lincoln.
B. George Jefferson.
C. John Hanson.
( )
5.
A DRAFT is?
A. An uncomfortable breeze.
B. A draw beer.
C. A way to involuntarily induct young people into the military.
( )
6.
Fragging is?
A. A type of racing.
B. Having sex.
C. A way to dispose of unpopular lieutenants.
( )
7.
Victory may be defined as:
A. A brand of cigarette
B. Avoiding the draft.
C. Complete and total destruction of an enemy's forces
( )
8.
Which applies to you:
A. My Family has a proud tradition of military service.
B. My family has a proud tradition of draft dodging.
C. My family has always been made up of politicians, so I'm exempt.
( )
9.
Who won the Vietnam war?
A. North Vietnam.
B. South Vietnam.
C. The U.S.A.
( )
10.
If needed would YOU join the military?
A. No I'm a coward.
B. No I'm the child of wealthy parents.
C. Yes, if my country calls, I'll answer.
( )
11.
Please Identify these by thier military designation:
A. 1911 m1a
B. M1A1 Abram's
C. Toe popper
1. A Humvee 2. An MRE 3. Night Vision Equipment 4. A pistol 5. Combat Boots 6. A helicopter 7. A Mine 8. A Party With The W.A.C.S. 9. A machine gun 10. A Tank
A.( ) B. ( ) C. ( )
12.
In combat where should you'r dogtags be?
A. Around my neck.
B. In my pocket.
C. In my right bootlaces.
( )
13.
H.A.L.O. stands for?
A. What angels wear.
B. Highly Ambivelant Learning Outline.
C. High Altitude Low Opening
( )
14.
What is the U.N. standardized infantry rifle round?
A. 9MM
B. 5.56X45MM
C. 7.62X51MM
( )
15.
What is a "Sky Pilot?"
A. A person who flies fighter jets.
B. A paratrooper.
C. A Chaplain
( )
16.
True or False
A 50 caliber Barrett Rifle has:
A. A man kill at 3 miles T( ) F( )
B. A tank kill at 2.7 miles T( ) F( )
C. Better squirrel hunting characteristics than military T( ) F( )
17.
The M16A1 Rifle has a forward assist feature. Using this feature will?
A. Help assist soldiers fighting on the forward line.
B. Force a round into the chamber so that it may be fired.
C. Leave you with no weapon as the extractors pull through the stuck brass which should have been ejected.
( )
18.
In most theaters of battle the average age of the soldier is?
A. 35.
B. 28.
C.19
( )
19.
Why in battle should you'r dogtags be worn in you'r right bootlaces?
A. It's so everyone is uniform.
B. It's so the enemy doesn't hear them jingling.
C. Because no matter how blown up you get yourself, the right boot is more likely to be found than any other part of you.
( )
20.
Smedley Butler Said:
A. It is good that war is so terrible, lest men grow overly fond of it.
B. Get there firstest with the mostest.
C. I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
( )







[edit on 26-9-2009 by Luminaught]



reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 01:31 PM by Magantice
reply to post by titorite


I'm grateful to you titorite and all like you who keep the rest of us informed. I'm an old lady who couldn't fight her way out of a paper bag. I don't own a gun and never will simply because I wouldn't know how to handle one and have no desire to kill anyone or anything in any situation. But......I also don't have any family to protect. The weapons the government has to use on the people scares the bejesus out of me.


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 04:00 PM by highlyoriginal
To all of you saying this is not going to happen, and when I refer to 'this' I mean a civil uprising or a revolution, explain to me how the following people must feel about the current issues going on...

How about those families sitting at home while their children are at war for a pointless cause and battling for people who could give two sh*ts about us?

How about the COMPLETELY failed war on drugs the Reagan administration started many years ago? All the wasted money, not to mention there is proof that the govt. is apart of the supply chain of the drugs coming into these united states...

What about those who are dying slowly and in pain, because they cannot afford health insurance, while our neighbors above are enjoying free health care?

How about those of us that know the facts about the conspiracies that are going on and have been going on for many years, and yet the public fails to recognize all those facts?

What about ALL OF US in the United States who are lied to on a daily basis via the MSM?

What about everyone in the US who has had their rights taken away countless times because of this bullsh*t patriot act that was CAUSED by a damn conspiracy in the first place?

I could keep going on and on, but I think I have made my point.

A civil uprising, a revolution, whatever you want to call it, is bound to happen eventually. I'm not saying tomorrow, or the day after, but as time moves forward we are going to get more organized and eventually do what needs to be done - which is over throw this government.

Forgive, I forget who said it, but the idea of a 100 million man march, DAMN good idea. Accept we'd all end up having to be armed to the teeth because God knows that we would end up being fired upon for protesting.

There is no such thing as legal protesting now a days, you might as well wear a bullet proof vest while holding your signs and yelling your taunts at whoever is bullying you to the point of making the protest in the first place.

Screw the elite, let's kill the mofo's and take back what is rightfully ours! My family, and I know many others on ATS, have had fellow family members fight for their rights back in other wars, are we going to allow those who died, die in vein because we are sitting back and not doing a damn thing except posting our complaints on a message board? I'm not saying that I am all rallied up and have an army behind me ready to go myself, but WE MUST unite and do something before it's too late. In fact, it is already too late, so let's get a move on!


reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 06:44 PM by sisgood
Whether you are a Republican or a Democrat, I believe that every thinking person must agree... the system is broken. Guchi gulch broke it. Selfish politicians broke it... willing to sell their soul to get into high government. Greedy corporations broke it by bribing selfish politicians into "protecting" their assets.
The system is corrupt almost beyond saving and everyone's personal agendas are not only throwing a wrench in the gears of our government but gumming up the works to boot.
I am an Independent and have never been prouder! I did not vote for Obama because I had an inkling of what he was. I did vote for Bush... true, he wasn't the best man for the job but I did think he was less corrupt than Kerry. I still think I made the correct choice.
Obama does have one thing correct though, we can't continue on as we have. SOMEthing's gotta give sooner or later. We will see change soon.
The question? Will it be good change or bad?
If you don't like what is going on right now try to change it. Participate in your community, join grass roots. Don't just be a silent groan in the sea of humanity, be a voice crying out for GOOD change!
People are getting stirred up. People are watching... closely.
We do indeed live in interesting times.

As for Civil War? Well, the country is almost split down the middle. I live and grew up in the south. My family were all poor share-croppers until after the Great Depression. We still fought in the Civil War... proudly I might add. Why? Certainly not because of the slaves.
What did we care? Most of us were for them being freed... the plantation owners would have to hire us to do the work the slaves used to.
The reason we fought? We believed the Government was getting too big for it's britches. We hated the Taxes levied against the South but not the North. Look it up in your history books.
Most people that fought in the war didn't own slaves... they were one step from slavery themselves some of them... like my family. They fought because they believed their government wasn't theirs' anymore.

That sound familiar to anyone but me?
I can tell you that Civil War is little more than a thought in the back of everyone's minds or perhaps a cry in the mouths of the more radical.
I can also say that it is a last resort. We have learned. We will try to be patient. But something has got to give... and soon or I fear for what this world will become.
The fact that 2012 is looming on the horizon does not reassure me...

And a piece of bread could buy a bag of gold....
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