Al Gore gets a $529 million gov't loan to build luxury hybrids

Al Gore gets a $529 million gov't loan to build luxury hybrids - IN FINLAND!, page 1

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Topic started on 25-9-2009 @ 06:30 AM by jsobecky

Al Gore got a $529 million loan from you and I to build luxury hybrid cars - in Finland.

In Finland??? What's the matter - don't we know how to build cars in America??

He would rather ship the jobs and money overseas, though?

And how many of us are in the market for a 'luxury hybrid car' that prices out at $89,000?

What a waste of *our* money!

WASHINGTON -- A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.
:
"This is not for average Americans," said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. "This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It's status symbol thing."

online.wsj.com...

[edit on 25-9-2009 by jsobecky]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 07:17 AM by Benevolent Heretic

reply to post by jsobecky

So, Al Gore didn't get the loan as your post states. Fisker, a California start up company got the loan.

And the initial production of this hybrid, less than half of which will be sold in the US, will take place at Valmet, in Finland, for quality and speed reasons. But the plan is to manufacture in the US in the future.

Initial Fisker Karma Production Will Take Place In Finland

Fisker expects that as many as 15,000 Karmas will roll off of the Finnish assembly line annually and the company has plans to seek a second plant, stateside, to provide additional production capacity.
...
“Valmet offers us the quality and speed necessary to meet our production goals and given that more than half of Fisker Automotive’s sales are expected to be outside of North America, Valmet represents an ideal international foothold.

I say this is great! Another US manufacturer of hybrids for people who don't want to buy a little box of a car is a great idea! I don't really see the downside, if there is one.

Yes, it would be nice for the US to make a car that's both nice and inexpensive, but we're simply not there yet. I have every reason to believe, that that is in our near future, though.

The car features a lithium ion battery designed to give the Karma a 50 mile emission free range on a single charge, before the internal combustion engine kicks in. According to Fisker, if driven less than 50 miles a day and fully charged overnight, the Karma can use as little as one tank of gas per year.

Business Green

Wow! That's amazing!

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 07:29 AM by Blackmarketeer

Your post topic is completely distorting the facts, it should either be changed or moved to HOAX.

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 07:46 AM by jsobecky

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

So, Al Gore didn't get the loan as your post states. Fisker, a California start up company got the loan.

Nice try at diluting the facts. The company is backed by Al Gore. A difference without a distinction.

Gore used his position and influence to secure the loan, I'm sure.

ETA: All economic benefits seem to accrue to Finland. So why doesn't tje Finn gov't put up the money?

Because it is at the initial, startup phase, when most businesses fail. So we take the risks, and the Finns get the jobs. And Al Gore makes his cut, I'm sure.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by jsobecky]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 07:50 AM by praxis

Originally posted by jsobecky

WASHINGTON -- A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.

"This is not for average Americans," said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. "This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It's status symbol thing."

We need a new 'peoples car' that is economical and affordable for the common man. Instead, fedgov throws money at the let-them-eat-cake crowd. Sheesh. More bass-ackward politics from on high.

The sooner the federal government is dissolved -- the better.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by praxis]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:00 AM by jsobecky

reply to post by praxis

It's important to note that Fisker is backed heavily by Democrats and their campaign contributors:

Fisker's top investors include Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, a veteran Silicon Valley venture-capital firm of which Gore is a partner. Employees of KPCB have donated more than $2.2 million to political campaigns, mostly for Democrats, including President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks campaign contributions.

That is why requests such as this one below are denied funding:

Scott Redmond, CEO of XP Vehicles Inc., said he met with DOE officials twice in Washington after applying for a $40 million loan to develop a $15,000 to $25,000 hybrid, and that both times he was told his application looked good. Since receiving a rejection letter from DOE in August, Redmond said, he has been unable to get a full explanation as to why his request was turned down.

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:00 AM by Blackmarketeer

It doesn't change the fact you distorted the headlines.

The actual headline: "Gore-Backed Car Firm Gets Large U.S. Loan"

Your headline: Al Gore gets a $529 million gov't loan..."

Even subtle changes can change the tone of a news article. It's these sorts of subtle distortions that has degraded all the MSM outlets to the point they no longer report news, just spin it according to their political agenda, much as you are doing here.

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:08 AM by jsobecky

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

Sometimes you gotta read between the lines to get the real truth...

If Al Gore hadn't backed them, I doubt they would have got the loan.

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:29 AM by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
Nice try at diluting the facts.

That's exactly what I thought when I read your post. No, actually, I thought, Nice try at distorting the facts.

The company is backed by Al Gore.

And many others. He is one among many.

Gore used his position and influence to secure the loan, I'm sure.
...
And Al Gore makes his cut, I'm sure.

Oh, you're "sure" of that? So, adding "I'm sure" at the end of your statements gives you quite a bit of leeway in distorting the facts, doesn't it?

Sarah Palin is having an affair with her daughter's boyfriend, I'm sure.
Glenn beck is a rapist, I'm sure.

See how that works?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Sometimes you gotta read between the lines to get the real truth...

And sometimes you have to make things up so it meets your partisan agenda. Isn't that right?

If Al Gore hadn't backed them, I doubt they would have got the loan.

"I'm sure".

The fact that this company is based in California is a good sign for future hybrids being built in the US. It's a first step. I'd love for a hybrid company to start manufacturing here, but if it failed, that would be a huge loss. I'd rather wait until it has a more stable market here and can bring the price down to where normal people can afford it.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:41 AM by frankensence

Keep in mind too, that hybrid cars are still under heavy development, with a lot of tweaking left in the design. The first production models as we have seen are still too expensive for the common man. New hybrid makers are going to need to market to the high-end crowd until they can refine their designs, and start to marshal "economies of scale" to bring the costs down. So I think it's good that a California company is getting some backing from a government loan (which by the way is something that gets paid back so it's not a freebie!). this is good for stimulating the economy, creating more jobs, and all that.

I guess, however, if a company has a democratic supporter, it's all bad, but if it had a republican supporter it's all good, right? What about those companies former VP Cheney headed getting no-bid contracts for the war industry (Halliburton, KBR)? Care to call Cheney out on that? Or is this partisan politics as usual?

PS: I agree with the posters above, your topic heading is EXTREMELY distorted, and should either be changed or dumped to the HOAX section.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by frankensence]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:42 AM by jsobecky

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Sarah Palin is having an affair with her daughter's boyfriend, I'm sure.
Glenn beck is a rapist, I'm sure.

See how that works?

It certainly wouldn't surprise me to hear that kind of crap coming from a die-hard partisan agenda.
Anything is fine with you, as long as it is 'Democrat' or 'liberal'.

I think that's the common definition of transparency.

It's "fine" to give money to export jobs overseas. After all, our unemployment rate is only about 9.7%.

It's "neat-o" to build an electric car for $89,000 that most Americans could never afford.

It's "super", because there are "plans" to build a plant in the US in the future (if there is any money left).

It's part of Obama's "Green Agenda", so of course it's OK. It cannot be questioned!

Nope, no "downside" here at all!

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:46 AM by Anjin

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I say this is great! Another US manufacturer of hybrids for people who don't want to buy a little box of a car is a great idea! I don't really see the downside, if there is one.

I agree, this really is great! And only $89,000 per car, what a bargain! Thank God the Government is starting to help the average American with these loans!

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:48 AM by jsobecky

reply to post by frankensence

Keep in mind too, that hybrid cars are still under heavy development, with a lot of tweaking left in the design. The first production models as we have seen are still too expensive for the common man. New hybrid makers are going to need to market to the high-end crowd until they can refine their designs, and start to marshal "economies of scale" to bring the costs down.

This is actually a very good argument for an upscale hybrid.

My problems is the location.

I think it's good that a California company is getting some backing from a government loan (which by the way is something that gets paid back so it's not a freebie!). this is good for stimulating the economy, creating more jobs, and all that.

There is no guarantee for payback. There is great risk for our money.

And the only economy it is stimulating is Finland, who will get the most lucrative up-front jobs.

I guess, however, if a company has a democratic supporter, it's all bad, but if it had a republican supporter it's all good, right? What about those companies former VP Cheney headed getting no-bid contracts for the war industry (Halliburton, KBR)? Care to call Cheney out on that? Or is this partisan politics as usual?

Prove that Cheney influenced the bids.

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 08:50 AM by GuyverUnit I

Well, if I were in the United Auto Workers Union, I'd be thinking Al Gore and the Federal Gov just stabbed me in the back. They just sent union jobs overseas.

After the unconstitutional/illegal government takeover of GM and Chrysler you would think they would use these companies newly at their disposal.
NOPE.

How is this stimulus loan working for the American economy?
We have ALL been stabbed in the back!

Is this how they buy Finland's vote for worldwide cap and trade?
(no offense to the general populace of Finland meant)

[edit on 25-9-2009 by GuyverUnit I]

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 09:03 AM by PsykoOps

Good going. Valmet does have a long history of good quality products, however this will be the first car they make. I'll have to check if they're hiring

reply posted on 25-9-2009 @ 09:12 AM by frankensence