We're here! We're queer! We're 13!

Originally posted by HotDogNoBun
reply to post by concernedcitizan

 

It isnt ignorant. It would be ignorant to overlook the fact that less than 10% of the world claims to be homosexual, so therefore it is either an a physical or mental abnormality, which could probably be treated with drug or hormone therapy if people could just accept it as an illness.

Less than 10% of the world has red hair. So therefore it's a physical abnormality. Cure the gingers! If only they[d accept that they're not normal and need to be cured!

It would be like saying a certain percent of humans are born with muscular dystrophy and since they were born that way lets not help them, lets just accept and encourage them. That would be ignorant.

Riight... gays are disabled now?

For the record, I'm straight and ginger. I've adored women and been fascinated by glamour since before puberty. I knew how I felt early on. I wish I'd been brought up in a less repressive age and am frankly envious of kids today in some respects, although I think that there is a slightly too deliberate attempt to sexualise kids early, which comes mostly from the music industry targeting them.

People are varied. Puberty doesn't hit everyone at the same time. Therefore trying to put a specific age just doesn't cut it. An ex of mine started her periods at nine.

Gay people have a tough enough time in society as it is, and I would hope that if I sired a gay child I'd simply love them as any other.

Originally posted by HotDogNoBun
reply to post by oneclickaway

 

... scientists have suceeded in finding a cure for sheep.

Fantastic! I hate sheep, the stupid, fuzzy little bastards. Wipe 'em all out.

If homosexuality was natural then you would be able to reproduce from the primary homosexual sex act.

If by "natural" you mean "found in nature", then the sentence above is a non-sequitur. Further, homosexuality is to be found in nature. Were those homosexual sheep subjected to peer pressure? Did they get picked on and called "queer" until it baceme a self-fulfilling prophecy?

This whole thread reminds me of something Bill Hicks (IIRC) said about people reading the Bible not for their own enlightenment but so they could tell other people what to do.

the guy who mentioned only 10% of people are gay and others responding about maybe being a redhead is a disease too or left-handed.

Well those are completely off the wall analogies in my opinion.

Being a redhead doesn't decrease your life span and make you more prone to diseases, neither does being left handed.

On another note, i'd also like to throw this at everyone.
If being gay is normal then why do many gay men act so feminine?
Do they feel that one of the partners has to be... a "woman"?
And people will say, oh there's a lot of gay men not feminine
sure this is true, but often that's the other partner that plays the male role.

being gay is normal some say, but then why are so many abnormal?
acting like the opposite sex is abnormal is it not?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


>>What is happening to our society is we are unable to be honest with ourselves and society itself.

What's honest about not wanting a person to think about sex until they've been on this planet 21 years or whatever arbitarry age limit you've set?

The human body is beautiful and the act of copulation can be a lot of fun if done right, however when done wrong of course serious psychological damage can be caused - trying to force someone to ignore their biological desires isn't going to work for a start but also it certainly isn't going to help the world learn to be honest with itself.

oh gosh i don't know why i'm even bothering, you don't want to do what is right or kind by your kids, you don't want to help them develop into self-aware and well balanced people - you're simply trying to force the moral system some lunatic firebrand preacher told you an invisible wizard demands you to obey, no doubt to deal with hisown psychological trauma.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
What's honest about not wanting a person to think about sex until they've been on this planet 21 years or whatever arbitarry age limit you've set?

nothing is honest about that
when did I say they shouldn't think about sex until they are 21?

Taking a statement of mine and enlarging it 100x and then making it seem that was my original statement is not helping you convey your message.

why is everyone.. well almost everyone, in this thread doing this?

Originally posted by NatureBoy
trying to force someone to ignore their biological desires isn't going to work for a start but also it certainly isn't going to help the world learn to be honest with itself.

Please expand on this
Thanks

Originally posted by NatureBoy
you're simply trying to force the moral system some lunatic firebrand preacher told you an invisible wizard demands you to obey, no doubt to deal with hisown psychological trauma.

This has nothing to do with religion, if that's what you meant by invisible wizard.
This is about good parenting and doing what's right.

Funny enough you are accusing me of thinking like this because some invisible wizard told me to think like this when you are the FIRST one in this thread to mention religion.
Nobody even mentioned religion before you.

You should read before you type

jeeez this is some prettty ignorant and naive stuff i'm reading...

anyway

religion is the reason society finds anything wrong with homosexuality

it was fairly normal for a long time. u think if you were born without culture in middle of the amazon or something you'd care what went in what hole? we have sex with our hands for gods sake (pun intended?)

in other words... what if jesus told us to take it in the wink wink... we'd all be walking around real funny looking

and to not realize this, i find to be nuts

in fact, if jesus said to be gay, i bet christians would be trying to kill the heteros for overpopulating the earth or whatever rationalization they would come up with

and if you don't think this is true... your not imagining hard enough

Can you guys leave religion out of this thread please?
It's only a specific group mentioning religion and it's the same one accusing the other group of having the views they have because of religion.

You guys are the only ones talking about it.

Unless someone that disagrees with you mentions religion, then reply and speak on it, otherwise there's no sense mentioning it as a tactic to derail the thread.

Thanks in advance

Originally posted by dannyfal
religion is the reason society finds anything wrong with homosexuality

For some yes for everyone absolutely not
I don't believe in organized religion and you've seen my views in this thread

Originally posted by dannyfalwe have sex with our hands for gods sake (pun intended?)

nobody has sex with their hands as there's no penetration

in a manner of speaking you can also kind of say gay people don't have sex either.

Sex is the act in which the male reproductive organ enters the female reproductive tract.


[edit on 25-9-2009 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by ModernAcademia

nobody has sex with their hands as there's no penetration

in a manner of speaking you can also kind of say gay people don't have sex either.

Sex is the act in which the male reproductive organ enters the female reproductive tract.

You just made me splutter coffee all over my keyboard...so thanks for the laugh. My, my...no wonder you don't seem to understand much if that is what you believe. You seem rather confused about a lot.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


well religion fits into the nature vs. nurture discussion... to completely leave it out of the argument is understandable, but it definitely gives the discussion some context. if u want to replace the word religion with culture, what i said still makes sense... it is because we are raised and cultured the way that we are that we believe A is right and B is wrong...

ModernAcademia... do u honestly believe if you were adopted by 2 gay men and had 10 gay uncles you would still have the same viewpoint as you do now?

my point being is that the "when" and "where" aspect can not be overlooked because if this was 3,000 years ago and you were living in Africa you'd probably not have a problem with sexuality at a young age or homosexuality

P.S... i don't think religion is why you believe what you believe...i think the US culture (which is highly tied in with the Judeo-christian belief system) clouds how all of us think. including me. nothing wrong with it. its just good to be aware of when trying to size up an issue

[edit on 25-9-2009 by dannyfal]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Meh i just wrote a long responce but lost it so heres a quick one to replace it, In rome and greece homosexuallity was acceptable and encouraged then because larger populations gave millitary advantage to the leaders everyone to told to 'go forth and multiply' and along with this homosexuallity was banned, lots of things happened and here we are today at the dawn of a new era, humanity trying to find its way through another enlightenment age.....

If i can't mention religion then you have to stop acting as if the moral system of old christendom is infallable, you gotta stop saying things are 'unnatural' and 'immoral' or 'perverted' or 'sick' or anything along those lines which begs the question.

In a totally natural system children would grow up most likely squat feeding at the base of trees, by the time they started to reach puberty the local males would contest, most likely with a fight, who would get 'breeding rights' and the girl would be made pregnant as soon as she is biologically able - by the age of 25 she would most likely have produced between five and ten children of which about 2-4 would still be alive and probably nearing breeding age - the mother, assuming she survived all the births, etc would being unable to keep up with the requirements of life most likely die in her late twenties to thirtys. Of course the whole time the males who weren't strong enough to win all the women would be playing with themselves and each other whenever the desire arose.

THAT is the 'natural' world my friend, go watch it on the discovery channel (although american docus never show gay or masterbating monkes for some reason, however david bellamy isn't shy of it so check out some of his great videos) - - - I'm sure you'll agree that it sounds terrible, thats why we came up with society and moral systems and code of laws, etc, etc, etc

Of course we don't have a perfect understanding or society model yet which is why we have these debates, so i'm saying stop trying to justify your opinions based on some outdated book or fear based thinking (which yes i know you haven't mentioned religion, but you and others do keep saying words like unnatural and immoral) - rationalize and debate openly the many complex issues involved, then i won't get angry and throw insults at your invisible friend

[edit on 25-9-2009 by NatureBoy]

reply to post by NatureBoy


very good explanation. star for you. i hope he doesn't get all defensive over your post because it was stated very well.

For far too long, most thought that heterosexuality was what is normal.

Today we know differently. The human rage of sexual expression and desires has so many layers to it, that we are only beginning to understand it.

I don't like the word the word GAY. I feel that people who are more liberated and free to openly show that they are not just hetero, are InterSexuals, or MultiSexual. Heterosexuality is only one of the many facets of human sexual expression.

I actually admire those that can openly love both genders intimately.

Kids that can accept that they are driven in other ways, will have a greater chance of sorting out their adult needs and desires later.

We have a unisex gender bending kid who lives a couple of houses down. He is about fourteen or fifteen. He is a loner, who just does his thing.

I think he is actually quite cute, and pretty in a generic way. He wears his hair in long soft curls, dresses very unisex. I am beginning to wonder if he might be a young transgendered person...time will tell soon enough.

reply to post by Confused and Dazed!


i don't want to drift off topic here but maybe what you're seeing is an emo? does he listen to my bloody valentine all the time?

but beside that joke point i agree with you, constraining ourselves into tightly ridged little boxes is just silly - otherwise emo kids sometimes listen to thrash metal and like wise otherwise gay people might fancy a woman every now and then, etc, etc - I think we need to stop worring whats right and wrong, what unnatural, not-normal or whatever tags we use to define things we don't understand / don't like - if its not going to actually hurt anyone or break anything then what the problem?!?!?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


>>If being gay is normal then why do many gay men act so feminine?

good question, because women and men have deffinate gender roles which should never be changed, this is why my woman is in the kitchen right now making me a sandwitch before she cleans the house while of course making sure never to answer back or show any flesh between the top of the neck to her ankles. HAHA and i am a stout drinking man who tills fields for a living by driving my oxen before me with with a willow cane!

seriously is this how you see the world? I know you didn't like Jong or any of her ilk but femminism happened, men and women are just people who pee outa different tubes. If a woman wants to load trucks and drink pints of ale then thats fine, i know many who do, if a guy wants to drink cocktails and be a house husband then thats also fine and again i know many who do.

More to the point it's actually only the people who YOU can tell are gay that are the classic gay stereotype - were you investigate further i can assure you that many, many totally stright acting people enjoy manlove - do you find these people more acceptable than the femmen?

Basically people enjoy all sorts of things, in a society this complex and large thats lucky because for a start if we all wanted to go on holiday to the same place it would be rather over crowded

Originally posted by dannyfal
if u want to replace the word religion with culture, what i said still makes sense... it is because we are raised and cultured the way that we are that we believe A is right and B is wrong...

Are you pro-obama or are you a racist?
which one?
No there's no in between.
At least that's what MSNBC and CNN have said a few times

Are you saying something similar?
Either I am pro-homosexuality to the fullest without bounds or was I raised in a culture where this was frowned upon, that's your question right?
Those are the only two options correct?

See you mentioning culture and religion is derailing the thread, because unless anyone uses those arguments as ammo why mention it and tell me why I think this way?

How about I tell you gays are mostly gay because either they hated their mother or were molested by their uncle.

Yes, it is the same thing, you are trying to set delimeters to my views for your own gain.

Originally posted by dannyfal
ModernAcademia... do u honestly believe if you were adopted by 2 gay men and had 10 gay uncles you would still have the same viewpoint as you do now?

Firstly I am all for gay rights and am pro-choice
but I am NOT for gay parents being able to adopt.

And your question really is... well... void, because I can also say if you were raised by a family of rapists would you think rape was wrong.
NO I am not saying gays are like rapists.
I am making a point.

raised by 2 gay men and 10 gay uncles I couldn't have come out well with no woman, at least 1/10 in that household, to have a better understanding of things in life.

And it shouldn't start that way, because a child is a product of reproduction
Why should anyone be subject to having gay parents when it defies just that?

And I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, seriously I don't
I seen how you guys jump to conclusions here and someone will jump in response but I am being precise in what I am saying.

A Child is a product of reproduction
Every child needs both a father and a mother. We all know how mothers are, they all have that beautiful motherly nature, maybe because that baby was in her womb I don't know, I guess i've known many women with that nature even before giving birth, but every child deserves that aspect.

Originally posted by dannyfal
P.S... i don't think religion is why you believe what you believe...i think the US culture (which is highly tied in with the Judeo-christian belief system) clouds how all of us think. including me. nothing wrong with it. its just good to be aware of when trying to size up an issue

I've never been exposed to any form of judeo-christianism whatsoever in my entire life.
I am against all forms of abrahamic religions.

I think kids are aware of their sexuality at a far younger age. When I was 5ish I liked:

Jennie


Mary Ann


Uhura


Not James Bond or Gilligan per say.



As to the argument as to whether being gay is wrong or not I'll just say that it IS natural. Get past the what the Invisible Man in the Sky seemingly says and it becomes clear. That is if one is not afraid or ignorant on the subject.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
If i can't mention religion then you have to stop acting as if the moral system of old christendom is infallable, you gotta stop saying things are 'unnatural' and 'immoral' or 'perverted' or 'sick' or anything along those lines which begs the question.

Forget religion, take a look at human anatomy

Originally posted by NatureBoy
I'm sure you'll agree that it sounds terrible, thats why we came up with society and moral systems and code of laws, etc, etc, etc

Forget morals, look at the human anatomy

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Of course we don't have a perfect understanding or society model yet which is why we have these debates,

No i'm pretty sure I have a good understanging of our society as well as many others.
It's actually not rocket science.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
so i'm saying stop trying to justify your opinions based on some outdated book or fear based thinking (which yes i know you haven't mentioned religion,

Your agenda here is to try and push me into a corner
Label me as a religious nut so YOU can justify my views on your own terms for political gain.

Once again, I am strongly against all forms of abrahamic religions and am not a believer in any organized religion.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
but you and others do keep saying words like unnatural and immoral) -

Yes unnatural
again look at human anatomy
understand the reproductive system

How can I NOT think it's unnatural

I admit this is a vulnerable age.

Our schools have dress up days like whacky Wednesday and other funny things but yesterday was “Switch Gender Day” The boys dress as girls and the girls as boys. My first reaction was to get ticked off.

Does anyone see a problem with this or is it just me? I allowed my teenage daughters to dress like football players. I wouldn’t allow a boy to wear a mini skirt, a stuffed bra and heels. I don’t know why? I wasnt aware I had a gay phobia. There is something wrong about this. I expect it will be an annual event.

My twins are double trouble so I gave in and now wished I hadnt.

Originally posted by intrepid
As to the argument as to whether being gay is wrong or not I'll just say that it IS natural.

Really?
IT IS?????
Thanks
I'm glad to see how you guys bring it down to a scientific level

Originally posted by intrepid
Get past the what the Invisible Man in the Sky seemingly says and it becomes clear.

Again....

How can you guys debate on this topic if you all think it's about religion when you are the ONLY ONE'S mentioning religion?

It's like a new form of ad hominem, imposing a source of our belief onto us and then targeting that source and not our arguments.

That's kind cheap bro

Originally posted by intrepid
That is if one is not afraid or ignorant on the subject.

But it is YOU all that is afraid
you can't even stay on topic

You just keep mentioning what YOU think the source of my views are and only comment on that when not one of my comments were anywhere close to religion.

You therefore ALL lose by default.
Seriously, it's like arguing with devout Obama fans telling me i'm only not pro-obama because i'm racist.