Transexualism, Sexual Perversion Or A Real Medical Condition?, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:15 PM by Miraj
reply to post by Selahobed


I'll try to help your perception with this..

As another poster said, that he has a lot of guts to come out like that. It is very hard for a lot of people to understand it fully. The only thing that I am unhappy with myself is my lack of athletic abilities.

But put yourself in his position. And realize that he's probably struggled with himself for a long time, tried to fight it, tried to be "normal" until he finally obviously accepted it. Then to come out and tell your family? That means he's almost proud of it. There are many things that he could of done. I imagine most would just slowly drift away from their family, and look for those that accept what they want to be.

I can't call it a disorder honestly, because a disorder implies that you can treat it, and that the disorder causes trouble that makes it difficult for them to function in society. I prefer to see it like homosexuality as just the way they are.

I'm sure there are very deep psychological reasons that transexuals are the way they are, and these are perhaps already understood but I don't believe one can change it.

I do not believe that it is a perversion, there's just too much that you do and go through for it to be a fetish.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:22 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by mcgrower


Ohhh trust me he needs support lol, he is a consumate momas boy and i have had to defend him/her many times.... Or girly girl?

Thanks for your post, im sure with what you say you have had plenty of almost alien stuff you have had to deal with. But like you we get through.

I hope...


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:27 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by Miraj


Yeah, maybe you are right.
When i think of mutilating my genitals just to feel normal, there is something definately going there. And my bro as far as i know was lead by his!



reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:50 PM by Annee
Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by Annee


The way the media reports this has definitley shaped how i should handle this.
I thought it was a new phenomena but its not. Apparently we are the only culture that doesnt accept this, even the ancient indians had a place for them in society, and even had a "surgery" for them.


Of course its not new - - it is as old as nature itself - - because it is nature itself.

Some Native Americans called them Man/Woman - - elevating them to God status. They were blessed by the gods to experience and understand both sexes.

It is only Man and Man's Society that makes rules about who is acceptable and who isn't.

I believe in a Creator - - but I consider religion Man trying to control God.

Look to nature - - not man labeling and boxing humans and their differences.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:56 PM by Miraj
reply to post by Selahobed


Yeah. I think so too.. It's not something I would ever even consider personally. So if you do it.. one must feel very compelled to.


I wouldn't worry much about how one might look.. with modern medical technology you can make anyone look feminine or masculine.

I watched a program on it once.. They had one woman (former man) that you would never have even suspected what she was.. and then they has a man (former woman) that you also never would have guessed.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 02:03 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by Annee


And i suppose that "trying to control God" would spread to our body though, but who said it is a matter of control but of correction? Condition. And if God is in control
and perfect in everything then why does my bro want to mutilate his organs to correct a so called mistake?

M aybe its real


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 02:18 PM by mcgrower
Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by Annee


The way the media reports this has definitley shaped how i should handle this.
I thought it was a new phenomena but its not. Apparently we are the only culture that doesnt accept this, even the ancient indians had a place for them in society, and even had a "surgery" for them.


Yes you are so right!!
At one point and time it was not the female who was the "pretty" one, it was the male!!
Guys would have face paint on, and colorful robes. Not only to gain the affections of a women to have sex with, but also for other tribes to know which tribe they were from by how they dressed.

Your brother might not be gay at all, just likes the clothing? You got to admit guys clothing does not have all the whistles and bells.

Where I live we have the women who is now living as a man who now is a mother/father. Whatever makes them happy, you no? Actually she was a pretty women, and a good looking guy.....


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 02:29 PM by mcgrower
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Selahobed


Yeah. I think so too.. It's not something I would ever even consider personally. So if you do it.. one must feel very compelled to.


I wouldn't worry much about how one might look.. with modern medical technology you can make anyone look feminine or masculine.

I watched a program on it once.. They had one woman (former man) that you would never have even suspected what she was.. and then they has a man (former woman) that you also never would have guessed.


I had to chuckle when I read this.
My oldest boy is 19 now and had NEVER seen me (his mother) in a dress lol!!
I learned real young if you want to be paid like a man wearing girly clothing to a laborious job (farming/ranching and I did other such jobs) just isn't going to cut it!
Can not even imagine feeding or cleaning hoofs or gosh driving tractor, planting in a dress..... What about the rattle snakes and having open toed shows on instead of boots, even the weeds that would get into your shoes tearing up your feet.

Women can dress in mans clothing, why not men in women clothing?? How many women wear jeans now?? Pant suits?? Whats good for one.... equality lol



reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 02:57 PM by Cole DeSteele
Im coming in late in the game, I know, but it never hurts to clarify our vocabulary for the sake of communication. There has always been confusion about certain personality types. They are not disorders...none of them!

Transvestites: Men who are men, usually, but not always hetero, who enjoy wearing women's clothing, makeup, etc. for their own enjoyment. I would venture to guess that most of them are NOT gay. No gender/ attraction issues for them.

Drag queens (or more PC, maybe just) Queens: gay men that enjoy dressing up as women, adopting a persona or alter-ego, stage-name, etc. These are homosexuals but have no desire to physically become women..they may identify with female personalities out of a common attraction to men, but are happy being male.

Transexuals: These poor souls have had the misfortune of being one sex on the inside, with the physical attributes of the opposite. They are not gay. They identify with themselves as the opposite sex, and many if not all of them, have battled with this crisis for years out of fear of being labeled or even self-identified as gay. The majority of these will activley pursue sexual re-assignment procedures to finally percieve themselves as a 'whole' person. I dont mean to be condecieving in my definition, I just can't imagine what a struggle living a normal life has been for them, being stuck in a body that doesn't fit their psyche.


and then of course,

homosexuals: identify with the physical manifestation of their own sex, and are attracted to the same sex. Some may 'bend' (dressing/ appearance) toward feminine/ masculine, to identify their preference, but are nonetheless content with their own bodies.

Understand that your brother is neither sick nor perverted. Some times nature makes an error, that's all. And if you percieve that as a slight on God, then ok. Maybe he's not perfect. Or maybe he is, and has reasons for putting people through this.

Seems like alot of these cases occurred out of man's own gender assignment at birth to treat hermaphroditism...and the poor pt lost the coin toss. Nowadays, I think they allow these children to live with both identities until the psyche is mature enough to make a choice.

That's the way it should be done, IMO. How could anyone but the child know what sex they identify with? And how long before they figure it out?


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 04:24 PM by Annee
Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by Annee


And i suppose that "trying to control God" would spread to our body though, but who said it is a matter of control but of correction? Condition. And if God is in control
and perfect in everything then why does my bro want to mutilate his organs to correct a so called mistake?

Maybe its real


I believe in a Creator. I never said I believed in an omnipotent god. But I retract - - as I don't want to get into a religious debate.

If the world of man was truly an accepting place - - we wouldn't have cosmetic plastic surgery to make us look younger either. Isn't that also a form of mutilation?

If the world of man was truly an accepting place - - your brother might feel totally comfortable just being who he is -- and not taking drastic measures to fit a form.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:02 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by Cole DeSteele


Wow, i never saw my bro as suffering at all, but in retrospect there have been times when he just burst out crying for no apparent reason. I put that down to war, memories of mates etc, but looking back, its always kind of been there.

I know he is not gay, because of all the women he as had, or maybe that was him trying to fit into the social construction?
After speaking to him, he told me that he has always felt like a she, and has felt tortured his whole life and trapped in a body he didnt choose. I obviously cannot relate to that, i can try to, but it still feels very strange to me. God knows what mom feels like, she hasnt stopped crying since he came out. And my dad has been over compensating with manliness since lol.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:05 PM by Selahobed
Originally posted by mcgrower
Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Selahobed


Yeah. I think so too.. It's not something I would ever even consider personally. So if you do it.. one must feel very compelled to.


I wouldn't worry much about how one might look.. with modern medical technology you can make anyone look feminine or masculine.

I watched a program on it once.. They had one woman (former man) that you would never have even suspected what she was.. and then they has a man (former woman) that you also never would have guessed.


I had to chuckle when I read this.
My oldest boy is 19 now and had NEVER seen me (his mother) in a dress lol!!
I learned real young if you want to be paid like a man wearing girly clothing to a laborious job (farming/ranching and I did other such jobs) just isn't going to cut it!
Can not even imagine feeding or cleaning hoofs or gosh driving tractor, planting in a dress..... What about the rattle snakes and having open toed shows on instead of boots, even the weeds that would get into your shoes tearing up your feet.

Women can dress in mans clothing, why not men in women clothing?? How many women wear jeans now?? Pant suits?? Whats good for one.... equality lol


Yes i see your point, but if i was to see a guy in a full on floal dress walking down the street, or at work, there is no way i could take him seriously haha


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:10 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by Annee


Hmmmmn, maybe its not just the world of man that is at work here, maybe its the person who cannot accept themselves. I have heard of loads of stories where women have gone in for plastic surgery but have come out the other end with the same none acceptance for who they are.

Maybe these folks need counciling first before they go under the knife?

As for my bro, i think that a LOT of money will have to be spent lol.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:28 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by grover


Yeah im having to agree with you, i dont want to see my bro as a perv, but what you say is the crux of the situation. None of us can relate to a morbid feeling of entraptment in our own bodies, so the people who do are requiring of more sensitivity, however, because we cant relate, isnt that something they could use to justify? I dont know what it feels like to be trapped in the wrong body. Maybe the same as being connected to the same parents and if that is the case then where is the doc? lol


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:28 PM by grover
reply to post by Clearskies


I suspect that you consider yourself a good Christian but I also suspect from his teachings, Jesus would be far more compassionate.


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:39 PM by Selahobed
reply to post by Clearskies


You are not offending me, i kind of have the same feelings as you, however i am not going to discount that this is a real psycological problem and much like someone would need plastic surgery to feel whole then maybe this would allow him to be himself. God hates liars, and if you are going through the motions in life and doing the right things but in your heart you feel something else, then that makes you a liar imo. Being true to yourself is being true to God, but then you have to allow God the opportunity to change the wrong thinking if that is the case.
Being true to yourself is better than being a hypocrite in church? At least then you give God the opportunity to work on you when all of the surface lies are gone?


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 06:44 PM by Clearskies
reply to post by Selahobed


It's like a joke I heard from a preacher,
this lady dies and G-d tells her that it's OK, she has 15 years left to live,
she wakes up in the hospital and remembers what happened and decides that since she has all this time left, she gets her face-lifted, her nose done, her eyes and lipo.

When she walks out of the hospital, an ambulance hits her and she dies and meets G-d, she says, "But I had 15 years left!!!"

G-d says, "I didn't recognize you......"
lol
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