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Real Minimum Wage Tax is 40% in the USA

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posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:40 AM
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Given the $6,07.75 tax bill on the $15,828 in income, John Peasant paid a 40% TAX RATE on his minimum wage income in 2008 after additional debts. Since Illinois has a nearly average tax rate, high-tax states like New York and California are likely to exceed 40%.

www.civilchallenger.com...

I believe that such a tax rate is a crime against humanity. I recall a survey that found most people in the US believed tax on the richest of us should not top 30% but do not recall the source. Of course those of us who are Marxists believe the tax rate is 100% for everyone since the government basically owns you under Marxism, and maybe that is where we are headed. Apparently we're almost halfway there already.




posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by truthquest

Given the $6,07.75 tax bill on the $15,828 in income, John Peasant paid a 40% TAX RATE on his minimum wage income in 2008 after additional debts. Since Illinois has a nearly average tax rate, high-tax states like New York and California are likely to exceed 40%.

www.civilchallenger.com...

I believe that such a tax rate is a crime against humanity. I recall a survey that found most people in the US believed tax on the richest of us should not top 30% but do not recall the source. Of course those of us who are Marxists believe the tax rate is 100% for everyone since the government basically owns you under Marxism, and maybe that is where we are headed. Apparently we're almost halfway there already.


I am not certain I understand, given that everyone has a base 5700 credit. 50% of 15,828 = 7914 - 5700 = 2514.

What caused the tax bill? That level is almost mine and I make almost 4 times the cited
amount.


---edit for additional information:

according to various web sources. the tax bracket cited = 15% income tax. This guys billable tax should be $1,957 with a reported tax percentage of 12.36 based on 2009 tax codes. If he is having taxes with held he should get a refund...

What caused the 6k bill?

---edit
Figured it out, they pulled figures out of the proverbial butt. That fed value is way off.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by lordtyp0]

[edit on 24-9-2009 by lordtyp0]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:15 AM
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I don't know how tax works over there, but in the UK, after your tax free allowance, there is income tax to pay, which is the figure the politicians will state as the tax rate. BUT, we have something called National Insurance ( another tax) also to pay.
Let's also not forget that most things you buy over here are subject to Value Added Tax, as well as Duty (yet another tax) on special items (alchohol, tobacco, petrol).
It seems the price of capitalism is communism.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


I've read too many studies where it is a provable fact the tax rate is around 50%.

However, I think that is a load of bull turds............ It is much higher than that, but I don't know of an "verifiable" source for my reasoning, other than common sense. The USA is has legislatures who don't answer to their constituents, but to the lobbyist's that slip them money. Look at all the forced upon us fees from lobbyists. We are forced to carry insurance, and a multitude of other hidden fees beyond that.

Solely, imho, We pay 40% in taxes, but because of govt. We have to pay out upwards of 65%+ in extra lobbied fees

S&F



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by ENGLISH BOB
 


Here there are things like Socialsecurity, state, fed and medicare on the normal income tax setup. Most of the tax things referenced on the site are not relevant The sales tax for example. I am unsure if that means purchase tax (each state is different, some don't charge for food etc.). or the business aspect of sales tax which requires a tax amount from each sale you do. (like a store selling a candy bar).

Other items cited.. Smoking tax? only there if a smoker.

It is littered with garbage tag ons which have nothing to do with income tax as well to artificially inflate it. In this case if his taxes were that level he couldnt make it. To give him a 1 bedroom appt with a presumed cost of 500/month. It would leave him with no money for food. Unless 3k/year for food, utilities and transportation is somehow adequate.

That site pulled things out of it's butt.

In the US there is also basic sales tax, luxury taxes, fuel taxes etc. As everywhere everything possible to tax, they will tax. I would say reference some sites that are a bit less disingenuous though.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 


I can trace every penny of my income, when comparing sales tax, gas tax etc. added into normal fed income, state, medicare etc.. What I have paid is nowhere near 40%. Everything added including car registration I sit at MAYBE 25%. I can trace everything that I have bought as well. I am retentive like that.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by lordtyp0
reply to post by ENGLISH BOB
 


Here there are things like Socialsecurity, state, fed and medicare on the normal income tax setup. Most of the tax things referenced on the site are not relevant The sales tax for example. I am unsure if that means purchase tax (each state is different, some don't charge for food etc.). or the business aspect of sales tax which requires a tax amount from each sale you do. (like a store selling a candy bar).

Other items cited.. Smoking tax? only there if a smoker.

It is littered with garbage tag ons which have nothing to do with income tax as well to artificially inflate it. In this case if his taxes were that level he couldnt make it. To give him a 1 bedroom appt with a presumed cost of 500/month. It would leave him with no money for food. Unless 3k/year for food, utilities and transportation is somehow adequate.

That site pulled things out of it's butt.

In the US there is also basic sales tax, luxury taxes, fuel taxes etc. As everywhere everything possible to tax, they will tax. I would say reference some sites that are a bit less disingenuous though.


Does it really matter if the 6k in taxes came from income taxes or from sales taxes? People who earn minimum wage do buy retail goods, cigarettes, etc.

You say that it pulls figures out of its butt. Which figures? Most of the sources cited on the website are government sources. (BEA, Census, etc). I notice you mention income tax, but my friend made $14,000 last year and paid about $500 in federal taxes. So I'd have to say the website sounds right to me at least on that point.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by truthquest]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


What is Your line of work?

Are You self employed?

After all it makes a difference.

Did You know that a trucker working under their own authority has to pay an additional amount of income tax to the IRS?

Did You know that if Your in the adult industry as in having sexual intercourse on screen You have to pay out an additional 25% in income tax?

Your answers are vague, and I am tired. I can tell Your a debunker, or worse as You are apparently happy happy joy joy living in the land of the not so free, and home of the not quite brave enough to stand up; You know the place where We are taxed, but the representation is for the slave masters.

Again so vague, are You self employed; because I played that arena very well. I learned to deduct the very most basic items from my income tax, and absolutely legal; because I owned a company. Please if Your going to debunk, then I want specifics.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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Well here in Cali, having at times earned over 75k, I can say I rarely get to take home more than 65% of my earnings. Between state and federal taxes, CA takes around 10% and and fed taxes 20-30% depending on actual amount earned. Then, I get to spend the money so, after factoring in fuel taxes (fed, state & local), property (state and local), utility service taxes, phone service surcharges, tax an auto/health/property insurance, and nearly 9% sales tax for every dollar spent on tangible goods (except most food-stuffs), I can see being taxed nearly 50% quite easily.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 


I live in Utah as an IT person (posix engineer and sec specialist) employed at an internet provider.

Given the special tax's mentioned am I to infer you are a self-employed sex worker who trucks around? (I kid.)

As for Debunker if you are implying I am some sort of vested interest. I can only respond with: If calling BS on bad data and propagandist statements is somehow bad-the world is already lost. Everything should be challenged. Nothing should be taken at face value.

I weigh things. That pie graph does not add up. Case in point it cites a ciggarette tax. This infers he is a smoker. Most smokers I know go through a pack a day (I know I do). The cheapest smokes I see on shelves in utah go for about 3.50 a pack. This amounts to about 1300 a year.

What I see in that pie graph is allot that doesn't add up. For smokes alone it would be around 7% of the guys income (guesstimate off the top of the head). If you add it all up you get far more than the income cited.

In my case I can only go from experience. I do not do any special deductions or contributions to charity etc.. My taxes all added up do not come close to the numbers cited.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


No, I'm not a sexed out trucker
I just know from owning a business that my workers paid in around an official 27% in income tax; alone. I understand You made SS tax, or fica something separate. However, the govt. robs from all those funds equally
They are an equal opportunity thief.

Now with my employees being deducted, and not being in the position to tell them, "hey if You contracted out to me in a self employed status, then.......", I simply watched as imho they were raped by their govt.

I on the other hand had/have a very wise CPA. You'd be surprised how far totally legally You can go with deductions. I was able to deduct my family pets because I made them the logo for the business... I was able to deduct every facet of their lives, and care because of that one sketch.

All I am saying is that from what I know it seems plausible. Also, there are many lobbied fees that are attached onto a yearly income that most of us don't know anything about........... It all raises the general amount of money We are all forced to pay into big brother.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


I dare say it does matter. Consider the following:

Many of the "Taxes" cited are not taxes. The following example essentially says that it is a tax because a company charges more money to protect their bottom line-it is a tax. It obfuscates corporate profiteering with a government imposed Tax:

"To test this theory, on July 3, 2009 I called 12 different Wal-Mart stores and asked them their price for a carton of regular Marlboros. Six of them were in states with a median hidden tobacco tax per carton of $12.50, while the other six had a median hidden tobacco tax of $34.95. So, the higher tax states had a $22.45 higher tax rate per carton. The median price per carton in the low-tax states was $47.37, while the price was $69.22 in the states with the high tax. So, the tax per carton was $22.45 higher, and the price per carton was $21.85 higher. The information suggests that hidden corporate taxes are passed on to consumers in the form of higher product prices."

The following is also an example of said obfuscation. Because an insurance company charged a fee, it defines it as a tax:

"Additional corporate taxes in Illinois amounted to $412 million for insurance taxes, $1,310 million for group insurance taxes, $201 million in corporate taxes, $1,529 million in unexplained "assessment" charges, and the ever-sneaky $3,748 million in "other" taxes. Total = $7,200 million in mostly hidden corporate & other taxes. We can subract out vehicle registration fees from that number. According to the most recent data from 2006, there were 10.08 million registered vehicles in Illinois, most of which were taxed at $78 each, for a total of roughly $786 million.[12,35] $7,200 million hidden taxes - $786 million registeration fees = $6,414 million. John Peasent's wages of $15,828 / total illinois wages of $546,985 million = some tiny number as his share of hidden taxes. Peasant's share of hidden taxes * $6,414 million total IL hidden taxes = $185.60 in state mostly hidden taxes"

The article also doubles up on 'taxes' as it has a catch all 'sin tax' then applies all the individual 'sin' taxable items:

"The Calculations: There was a $835 million total budget debt/deficit in 2008 in Illinois[31]. John Peasant's state taxes paid were $171.54 state travel taxes + $54.52 state utility tax + $68 state tax on lotto tickets + $19.91 riverboat gambling tax + $4.51 state liquor tax + $65.69 state cigarette tax + $19.24 state food taxes + $183.02 in state retail taxes + $414.84 state income tax + $185.60 in state mostly hidden taxes = $1,186.87. $1,186.87 taxes paid / $38,643 million taxes collected = John's portion of the taxes. John's portion of the taxes * $835 million budget deficit = $25.65 state debts"


Basically, this article gathered everything possible to inflate the numbers. The citations at the bottom also cite number Lottery aspects. GDP data etc. However it does not go into the credit factors such as children credits, house mortgage write offs etc. I am shocked it did not say the guy had 30,000 in student loans to claim that the interest was also a tax.

Each state will of course have different ultimate tax levels. (In Nevada for example there is no income tax as I understand it. Some states have no food taxes etc..).

However this cite has a purpose of painting as negative of a picture as possible. Personally I feel income tax is illegal (direct taxation is prohibited). I also know an IRS guy who said if they increased sales tax by 1 percent they could do away with all income taxs.

But calling a mole hill a marauding space monster like the linked site does is a disservice and only promotes ignorance. ALWAYS fact check.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 


lol, I was splitting fica etc.. I suppose it is fairer to state my tax level in Utah with sales tax, various property taxes (I do not own a home), utility taxes etc... Everything added up it could very well approach 40% as I did forget a couple items when I made my initial statements. However, my spending habits make it such. I would not pay into smoking taxes, or booze taxes if I did not drink or smoke. I would not pay into fuel taxes if I would ride my bike the 4 miles to work etc..

Direct percentages cannot be done though. I smoke and drink The amount I do both means the tax amount from those habits probably doesnt even hit .5% of my income. Sales tax in UT is I think 7% but it has been awhile since I cared to look and I am feeling lazy now
. The fed tax estimator shows my income tax rate at 13.7%. That plus sales = 20.7%. Utah state tax for my level (single, non mortgage etc.) shows as $250 + 6.98%. If I am reading this ssa.gov site correct the OASI combined is about 5%.

So: 20.7 + 6.98 +5 = ~ 33%. Factoring in things like,, car registration (license tax), misc fees. I will round off at 4% probably a bit high.

With that in mind I concede it is certainly possible to hit 40%. I still have problems with that website though



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 03:33 AM
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If you buy a pack of cigarettes are you or are you not getting taxed $1 per pack for federal taxes? I'm asking because you just implied that is not a tax. Also, why don't you consider the insurance fees levied by the government a form of taxation?

Suppose the Federal government replaces the income tax with an 80% corporate tax. By your logic, minimum wage earners will no longer be paying any taxes. Correct? You seem to be saying that just because a tax is hidden that it really isn't a tax.

Also, you say the article is making things look as bad as possible. How isn't it really that bad that minimum wage earners have to pay higher prices as a result of taxes, and why do you believe such higher prices should not be considered taxes?

[edit on 24-9-2009 by truthquest]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by truthquest
If you buy a pack of cigarettes are you or are you not getting taxed $1 per pack for federal taxes? I'm asking because you just implied that is not a tax. Also, why don't you consider the insurance fees levied by the government a form of taxation?

Suppose the Federal government replaces the income tax with an 80% corporate tax. By your logic, minimum wage earners will no longer be paying any taxes. Correct? You seem to be saying that just because a tax is hidden that it really isn't a tax.

Also, you say the article is making things look as bad as possible. How isn't it really that bad that minimum wage earners have to pay higher prices as a result of taxes, and why do you believe such higher prices should not be considered taxes?

[edit on 24-9-2009 by truthquest]


I am not sure how you got most of that from what I said. But I will try and answer.

I will check again when I get home, but I do not remember ever seeing a tax on any of my insurance policies. There are insurance company levied fees like a fee for a paper bill, a fee for split billing (monthly payment instead of 6 month together for car insurance.) This is not government levied, it isn't a tax either. It is a fee the company levies.

As for the article making things look bad, I don't know how you took what I was saying as you stated. However to clarify. The article discusses Taxes (as in a levied fee from a ruling body) while adding in taxes (little "t" to infer a monetary burden.). They are not the same thing. According to that logic: I can say my roomate is mooching food from the fridge thus causing me a higher bill, thus increasing my taxes and still hold true to the spirit of the article. Case in point it mentions "Inflation Tax" Inflation is actually around 5% last I checked. It represents a drop in buying power. This is a little 't' tax. It is not the same thing as paying more for an item to fund something (sales tax, sin tax. whatever). It is a bait and switch technique. Some other things the article did that was a bit bogus. They gave the guy too many bills for his income, from smoking and booze to lottery playing, to a mortgage and car costs including fuel etc.. However they did not mention the credit factors of being able to write off interest on a mortgage All the credits this guy seems able to claim would drastically alter his income tax levels..

They also did other suspect things such as:

"$86.14 gasoline tax + $78 registration tax + $5.40 car title tax + $2 sales tax = $171.54 State Travel Taxes " .. Sales tax on paying taxes? Maybe IL is a weird state, but that just doesn't make any sense.

I also never even inferred it was somehow OK for minimum wage earners to pay higher taxes. Though I am surprised you would say that as it hints at the socialist ideal of paying by means (Higher tax brackets should pay more than lower income earners). The content of the site seems very right-wing. Hence my surprise.

Otherwise Taxation is different than financial burden. Taxation is a legal term, financial burden is cost of living. The article mixes both terms into one and calls it "Tax" which basically implies the Gov is stealing all your money. Don't get me wrong they have the hand in your pocket at every chance.

This article though has an objective though that just doesn't add up.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


Yes, I was somewhat frustrated because I don't like the government sneaking in taxes on people and then having someone say it isn't taxes. But I see now that you are using taxes as a legal term I'm not familiar with when you say "not taxes" whereas I was using it to mean what I perceive most people would consider a tax. What do you consider to be taxes? What is the legal definition?

Edit - Regarding the "$2 sales tax", if you look earlier in the text it says "Sales tax is 6.5% on new cars, but only $25 for cars over 10 years old, so buying a car every 12 years only costs $2 per year in taxes in Illinois." So, the $2 was the car sales tax distributed over a 12 year period. Its actually kind of a generously low figure IMO, though you could argue the author should have averaged it lower to consider the chances he did not own a car in the first place.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by truthquest]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:58 AM
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Dont forget about the 50 dollars you have to pay every year if you get a new job;
its called Occupational Tax

plus the 40 percent tax




those without health insurance has to pay an additional tax?
what the hell is that??!?!?!?




[edit on 24-9-2009 by DjSharperimage]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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As a smoker I heavily resent the huge taxes put on
tobacco products, it's ridiculous. Loose tobacco so
you can roll your own went from $8 to $27 overnight.
Studies have shown that since smokers die
younger than their non-smoking counterparts they
actually save the system money. Oh, well since when
did logic ever have a place in government?

I really believe we shouldn't tax the first $20,000 or so
of anyone's income as that is around what's required
just to live on. The tax breaks enjoyed by the iinvestor
class are ridiculous. I remember watching congress when
they voted to continue the tax breaks for the wealthy that
Bush put into place. The entire hall cheered madly. It was
the saddest show of greed and hypocrisy I've ever seen.
It turned my stomach.

Beyond that first $20,000 I believe a flat tax rate of 15%
on individuals and corporations would pay for everything
quite nicely provided we show some fiscal restraint. If our
economy is to keep going we must reverse this debt trend
we have piled upon ourselves. We better stop the endless
military spending and invest back into american industry
while ditching some of these "free trade" agreements we
have entered into that disavantage american businesses.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


Greetings from Evanston, where you SLC people come for your liquor and high point beer.....

I agree, it really depends on the state you live in. For me, we pay no state income tax and no grocery tax. Then again that brings the cost of living in Wyoming to virtually nothing.

I'm noticing how many people are putting state income tax and fed together. I would say that is a mistake on their part, but you already pointed that out.

My taxes are no where near 40%....

SLC sucks btw ....



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


You only get that 5700 tax exemption if you can claim dependants, If you claim head of household with no dependants it's more like 2500 to 3500 I can't recall which, and if you can't even claim the head of household, like say if your female and you live with a man working, I know this from experience, YOU GET DITTO BACK! Hell you even owe money, if they didn't tax your wages correctly.



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