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Oh, nooooooo!!!

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posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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Oh, yeees . . .


Stocks ended lower Wednesday as the rally after the Federal Reserve's statement faded and investors began to worry that the central bank is inching closer to withdrawing stimulus measures that have propped up the economy.

www.cnbc.com...

There is nothing to worry about returning Economy to her mother Mrs. Capitalism, is it? On the contrary, isn't this the right moment to flash a V-sign upon seeing the government army equipped with capitalism-to-socialism missiles returning home?

Would someone make a copy of the Dow Jones contexted action in the afternoon of Sep. 23, 2009 and shove it down to Ron Paul's throat?
This your American Entrepreneur spirit, you stupid jerk.

[edit on 9/24/2009 by stander]




posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


I would like to educate you, But I fear you wouldn't be able to wrap your brain around economics at all. If you think a central bank has a place in capitalism, then you are an utter failure at all things in life.

Stop calling this Capitalism. This hasn't been capitalism for nearly one hundred years. Not even close.

I'm not sure why you are angry at Ron Paul... he's not the the FED Chairmen, he didn't devalue the dollar, The Fed did. He didn't give free money to the banks..... The Fed Did.

He didn't bailout out Corporations.... Bush and Obama did....

He didn't create Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, The US government under FDR's leadership did.

I think before you spout off, you should read a few books on the topics you are attempting to understand. But before you do that, find a book on the English Language, and pick up another one on basic grammar...

Mod Edit: Please keep the personal insults to yourself.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Gemwolf]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by aravoth
 


What do you propose as an alternative to central banks?

Should we all write our own currency, and pass around kay-tag-bucks instead of dollar bills?

I'm just curious.

And don't say gold. Gold as a currency is the stupidest idea to ever come down the pike -- for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which being that it's a finite resource and we shouldn't be devoting large quantities of time and energy extracting worthless metals out of the earth, just so the economy can function and the money supply can grow to accommodate booming economies.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


Uh oh, looks like someone is a little upset that their BS stockbroker job may be in peril.

You think being some douche bag on Wall street symbolizes the entrepreneur spirit, I think not!

The schysters on Wall street have single handedly ruined the wealth of this country, destroyed the small businessman, and because of never ending greed and deceit, now you can look forward to bean counting rules and sanctions that will ruin what's left for the few honest ones.

Corrupt brokers actually crying about the mess they caused in the first place. You gotta love irony


I actually put you in that category of the "few honest ones", but it still doesn't give you the right to cry over your spilled milk because you knew how the game was played and you still went along with it.

Your only hope of savior now, and I highly doubt that it is still possible, is that there will still be a way to save this country before it burns to the ground, literally.

My advice to you, get out of this racket before it completely destroys whatever soul you have left. Money is not everything, but don't listen to me you'll be finding that out soon for yourself.

Oh and I walk what I talk, I've been there and done that and almost lost my soul in the process. I wish you nothing but the best.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by aravoth
reply to post by stander
 


I would like to educate you, But I fear you wouldn't be able to wrap your brain around economics at all. If you think a central bank has a place in capitalism, then you are an utter failure at all things in life.

LOL. I never mentioned that a central bank has a place in capitalism, so I couldn't obviously think about that.



Stop calling this Capitalism. This hasn't been capitalism for nearly one hundred years. Not even close.

So why I have to come across those Ron Paul disciples around here who took on a mission of defending capitalism in America against the evil of socialism spread by the government, when, as you maintain, capitalism once living in the USA had its funeral nearly one hundred years ago? You are tripping bad, dude. LOL.



I'm not sure why you are angry at Ron Paul... he's not the the FED Chairmen, he didn't devalue the dollar, The Fed did. He didn't give free money to the banks..... The Fed Did.


I'm not angry at Ron Paul. I just believe he is a stupid jerk not able to comprehend the realities. The investors taught him a lesson today. But he's too ignorant to accept the realities.



He didn't bailout out Corporations.... Bush and Obama did....

Which OP are you referring to? *eyeroll*



I think before you spout off, you should read a few books on the topics you are attempting to understand. But before you do that, find a book on the English Language, and pick up another one on basic grammar...

Sorry about that. I didn't turn off the spell checker, so my opinion showed up in a style that you are not accustomed to.

Now educate me on the matter of the investors fearing so much the moment when the government stops using tax-payers money to support their greedy ass. Actually, I changed my mind. I really doubt that you be able to grasp what I asked you about. No need for another nonsense.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by aravoth
 


And don't say gold. Gold as a currency is the stupidest idea to ever come down the pike -- for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which being that it's a finite resource and we shouldn't be devoting large quantities of time and energy extracting worthless metals out of the earth, just so the economy can function and the money supply can grow to accommodate booming economies.


Yeah. Worthless. Paper is worth so much more than this lousy gold stuff! What about that coltan in your Xbox or PS3 console? Yeah, we're gonna run out of that stuff too! (OH NOES!)

EVERYTHING is a finite resource! Hello!

Limitations on extraction of gold puts a limit on how much you can devalue an ounce. When more growth is needed - there will be a push to mine more gold. With paper, you simply flip a switch and WHAM - overnight your dollars are with toilet paper. During periods of fiscal stress people buy "worthless" gold to replace their "valuable" paper.

Having a limit on growth is a GOOD THING -- you'd prevent booms from growing too big. This comes to mind.

Try giving your girlfriend a ring made of a $100 bill instead of gold, see how quickly she says "yes".

Read (books/essays/papers/articles/blogs/etc):
www.mises.org...


[edit on 9/24/09 by Angry Danish]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by stander
 


Can you explain to me how you came to the conclusion that investors taught Ron Paul a lesson yesterday? I am not asking that in jest, I am actually curious as to the logic. Thanks.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by aravoth
 


What do you propose as an alternative to central banks?

Should we all write our own currency, and pass around kay-tag-bucks instead of dollar bills?

I'm just curious.

And don't say gold. Gold as a currency is the stupidest idea to ever come down the pike -- for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which being that it's a finite resource and we shouldn't be devoting large quantities of time and energy extracting worthless metals out of the earth, just so the economy can function and the money supply can grow to accommodate booming economies.


Well the issue isn't gold versus paper money. The issue is that whatever form of currency you have, it has to be backed by assets of actual worth that is quantifiable. As I am sure you have heard, we used to have the gold standard when gold backed US dollars. Kennedy tried to institute silver backed dollars, which happened for a time, but was rescinded. Now the backing for the dollars is not a tangible asset, it is instead the 'full faith and credit of the US Govt'.

The dollar has been devalued under the Federal Reserve's watch by over 90%. Personally I think central banks could serve some useful purpose, but not as they are now. They are too powerful with nearly zero transparency. The same comments you made in another thread about Banks getting too big and causing all these problems...... apply your thoughts on big banks to the Federal Reserve. They too are private and for profit banks. Difference is, they have no oversight or regulations, and resist anyone looking into their books. If you think other banks are too big and should be broken up, that ideology should also mean that you should support the Federal Reserve being broken up into smaller independent parts.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by johnny2127]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by stander
 






Stop calling this Capitalism. This hasn't been capitalism for nearly one hundred years. Not even close.


So why do I have to come across those Ron Paul disciples around here who took on a mission of defending capitalism in America against the evil of socialism spread by the government, when, as you maintain, capitalism once living in the USA had its funeral nearly one hundred years ago? You are tripping bad, dude. LOL.


"..why do I have to come across those Ron Paul disciples around here who took on a mission of defending capitalism in America"

Because the Socialist loving Bankers keep calling the system they have used to rape US citizen of their wealth "Capitalism". Ever think the REASON Capitalism gets such bad reviews by the Banker owned media whores is because it is better for the little guy than "socialism" HUMMMMmm

THINK like a banker who wants control of the wild cards called Political Activists. It is no coincidence that Maurice Strong. Father of the Environmental Movement and Global warming, worked for Rockefeller in 1953, sat as trustee on the Rockefeller Foundation, was President of Canadian Oil Companies and is a chief advisor to the World Bank and now China.

“What unites the many different forms of Socialism.. is the conception that socialism (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) must be handed down to the grateful masses in one form or another, by a ruling elite which is not subject to their control...” search.marxists.org...

"capitalism is defined as private ownership of property and wealth, as opposed to state control" So what we actually see in the USA is a "Corporatocracy or Corpocracy as a form of government where a corporation, a group of corporations, or government entities with private components [the Fed, USDA, FDA, EPA, OSHA...], that control the direction and governance of a country." Others call it Fascism

Here is HOW our country was controlled:


This transformation was the result of organized plans developed by a group of highly powerful – though unelected – financial and industrial executives who wanted to drastically change agricultural practices in the US to better serve their collective corporate financial agenda. This group, called the Committee for Economic Development, was officially established in 1942 as a sister organization to the Council on Foreign Relations. CED has influenced US domestic policies in much the same way that the CFR has influenced the nation's foreign policies.

Composed of chief executive officers and chairmen from the federal reserve, the banking industry, private equity firms, insurance companies, railroads, information technology firms, publishing companies, pharmaceutical companies, the oil and automotive industries, meat packing companies, retailers and assisted by university economists...
[The Federal Reserve bankers set up and funded the university economic departments in 1913 www.bigeye.com...]
www.opednews.com...



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by Kaytagg
reply to post by aravoth
 


What do you propose as an alternative to central banks?

Should we all write our own currency, and pass around kay-tag-bucks instead of dollar bills?

I'm just curious.

And don't say gold. Gold as a currency is the stupidest idea to ever come down the pike -- for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which being that it's a finite resource and we shouldn't be devoting large quantities of time and energy extracting worthless metals out of the earth, just so the economy can function and the money supply can grow to accommodate booming economies.


Gold as a finite resource keeps inflation in check. The money supply doesn't need to grow, the value of the money simply increases.....

Unlike today, where the money supply will grow, and the value dramatically decreases.

I don't really have to point this out to anyone, since every single fiat currency in the history of the world ended in exactly the same way. Inflation ultimately destroys it's value, which ultimately destroys it's nation. Everytime. In fact it has a 100% success rate.

Hilarious that you say "worthless metals".
Gold is so worthless that central banks own the vast majority of it...
......



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by stander



I'm not angry at Ron Paul. I just believe he is a stupid jerk not able to comprehend the realities. The investors taught him a lesson today. But he's too ignorant to accept the realities.


I agree Ron Paul is a stupid Jerk
He is so stupid that back in 2002 he said this....

"Price inflation, with a major economic downturn, will decimate U.S. Federal Government finances, with exploding deficits and uncontrolled spending. "

-Ron Paul 2002

and this....

"Federal Reserve policy will continue at an expanding rate, with massive credit expansion, which will make the dollar crisis worse."

- Ron Paul 2002

And this....

"During the next decade, the American people will become poorer and less free, while they become more dependent on the government for economic security. "

- Ron Paul 2002



Originally posted by stander
Now educate me on the matter of the investors fearing so much the moment when the government stops using tax-payers money to support their greedy ass. Actually, I changed my mind. I really doubt that you be able to grasp what I asked you about. No need for another nonsense.



So let me see if I understand you. You are actually saying that the only way for investors to invest capital in a growing company ..... is for the Government to "give" tax payer dollars to a private investor, so he can make money off of it? And someone actually Starred that stupid post of yours? I don't know what is more scary.... the fact that you wrote that, or the fact that someone agrees with you...

Just so you know, there is no tax money being spent. The government is taking out multi-trillion dollar loans to pull it off. The implications of that are far too weighty for you to understand apparently.

As you so eloquently put..... "no need for another nonsense."



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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I fail to understand why some people fear a solid currency, such as one based on gold.

With gold, there is no manipulation.

With gold, there is no real devaluation, nor inflation.

The finite amount only means that just a little gold will have a greater value. The numbers attached to it are the meaningless element.

Some fear for their "investments" and misunderstand the true value of their investments.

Gold maintains value of your other assets. True value. With gold there can be no radical ups and downs. Manipulation is infinitely more difficult.

Oh, sure, someone who has a vast reserve of gold can "dump" a few thousand tons on the market, but one may note, even then, the prices only drop some two percent or so.

But then it also recovers that two percent as it becomes part of the monetary system.

To continue, we in the US are going to completely crash. It's coming, the most brilliant of minds mistakenly think they are smart enough to continue to manipulate the current system, but one may note that it is always the most brilliant and successful that create the greatest disasters.

It' one small step from the penthouse to the ****house.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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If you're going to bash Ron Paul then you better expect to hear about it.

Ron Paul = Patriot

'nuff said.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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I say sir, would you like to buy some rocks?

The old man say's, "You want to sell me rocks"?

The man said, "Yes they are from the planet Earth". They are everywhere and I will sell them to you.

The old man say's, If they are from Earth then they must be worth something.

You are right, the salesman says with a grin.

Ok I'll buy your rocks the old man exclaimed. The salesman was thinking, I have a new sucker.

The old man bought rocks from him for over a year.

One day a strong storm came and destroyed the salesman's home which was made of wood.

The old man said to the salesman, Sorry you lost your house. The salesman asked, Did you loose your house as well?

The old man said no, it's made of rock.




posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Well thats not entriely true.


There is a finite amount of dollar bills in existance, and there is a finite number of anything in reality. The only infintite thing in existance may be space (debatable).

There is easily manipulation of gold prices as easy as anything else.

We need a central bank in reality, and 99% of countries have one as well.

As bad as it sounds, it was not the central banks fault as to what happened recently. It was your average american consumers fault. Spending vastly over their means, and then of course putting everything on black(house) in a market that has peaks and troughs just like the stock market.

I may be one of the only ones, but IMO BBernanke saved our asses with what he has done and we are lucky it only got so bad on the short term. As to the future, well no one knows, but judging by history we will thrive once again.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by GreenBicMan
 

No, there is not a finite number of dollars.

There is not a finite M1.

They can print dollars as long as they can feed paper, ink, and keep the lights on.

They cannot, however, alter the amount of gold. Even if they crank up all the mines in the world, it's just a trickle.

And THAT's why gold is so valuable.

AND a suitable standard.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Yes, there is a finite amount of dollars in circulation, it is not infinite.

They burn money for this reason - thats why you do not see old bills floating around - of course this is also due to change in money for security



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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So let me understand this, without stimulus the markets can not survive right?

What happen with the new brilliant idea of creating a revolving account between the Fed/treasury and the too big to fail banks? so they can borrow from each other as the needs arises.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by stander
 


Can you explain to me how you came to the conclusion that investors taught Ron Paul a lesson yesterday? I am not asking that in jest, I am actually curious as to the logic. Thanks.

No. I won't explain anything to you. It's self-explanatory; it's right in the OP. All you have to do is to read it.



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