Originally posted by HunkaHunka
No it did not.

It "encouraged doctors to provide it".

Far cry from mandatory. Though I have to admit, I'd support a mandatory law for people to have living wills as much as I support the law which says you have to have car insurance if you are going to drive.

I still think there should be a public option for both.



[edit on 24-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[emphasis added]
Yeah, the "bill" encouraged doctors, not lawyers and websites. Doctors who are responsible for providing you medical service, or recommending you don't get it due to "diminishing returns" in your quality of life. The bill would have had doctors telling you that your life is coming to a close soon, your situation is untreatable and you're no longer going to be a productive member to society and here's some pain killers, morphine, etc.

The spam you received was from a loose association of legal and paralegal professionals trying to get you to drop 40 bucks on an optional service they provide in order to guarantee that whatever happens to you in your future your estate is provided for: if you're on life support, you can have an advance directive / DNR (do not recussitate) order, etc. Everything that if you don't take care of in advance, the government will settle for you and your family in court.

[edit on 9/24/2009 by abecedarian]

When I go, the govt will run off with a couple things, my neighbor will run off with a few things (and hopefully the cats, if I go before they do), and I'll be buried in a cardboard box somewhere. Will I care? no, I'm DEAD. If I get cancer- I'm not going thru the fun and excitement of being 'treated'. If I want noxious chemicals in my body, I'll eat at McDonald's every day. If I am in an accident, and life support is the only option- don't waste the juice.

Being single and without family makes all of life's hard decisions easy.

Imagine having last rites read and told you will not last the night at 22!
Imagine having your loved ones told that you have less than 10% chance of recovery.

Here I am thirty eight years later...and more ornery than ever.

It ain't over until it is over...so counsel away. Yak yer heads off telling me that I am going to die some day...

Until the big fat lady sings my siren song, it ain't over! Not just yet anyway.

"All in good time my pretty, all in good time"

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
The Obamacare/Kennedycare/Healthcare Bill wanted to make End of Life counseling mandatory, and mandatory is where the problem comes in for some.

Excuse me?

You wanna cite chapter and verse on that 'mandatory part?

From what I saw, the bill calls for payment of a doctor's visit to discuss living wills...do not resuscitate orders...that sort of thing, should you want to.

But coming from a society where the very question of having to pay for such a thing is moot...I find the debate absurd.

Edit to say...the medical counseling is no charge. I got wills, powers of attorney and living wills for $350 total for us both. Just as a point of reference.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Living Wills are not end of life counseling,

Oh, yes they are! Anyone suggesting you have a living will is counseling you on making the decisions about how the end of your life is going to play out.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
End of life counseling is for folks who have a terminal illness or condition,

Oh, no it is not! End of life counseling is for everyone.

I can't help but wonder what you think it is. Can you give your definition?

End of life counseling is planning for the end of your life, no matter how old you are or whether or not you're sick. It's all about YOU planning for the end of your life. A living will is part of that planning.

The details include: Do you want life support?
Pain meds? Symptom management? Hospice care?
It's about counseling the person on end of life issues and care options and giving advice to make sure they can get those services. That's IT.

The GOP fully supported it in 2003, but now, since it's a Democrat wanting it, they hate it. And it sounds like you have been swallowing their story, hook, line and sinker...

It is only the act of a responsible person to have a living will and make arrangements for their death.

When my Mom died it was a living hell having to go to the funeral home that afternoon, make all the funeral arrangements and also deal with the rest of my family who were devastated.

Five years later is was to do all over again for my Dad.

I knew then that I wanted to spare my children that horrible experience.

I now have my funeral planned all the way to the music and complete arrangements. My children will have to pick a time and nothing else. It is also paid in full.

This is just good sense to me.

However, when I Was told I had kidney failure I was given several choices concerning treatment. The last option was to do nothing and die with medication to make me comfortable and pain free.

That was end of life counseling to me. Of course I chose not to die at this time and have treatment.

I do have a living will so I don't lay in a bed with tubes sticking in me and not knowing anything. If there is no hope then I choose to die.

I see nothing wrong with making future arrangements but I do have a problem with the government using my tax money to pay the services for other people.

Some legal group suggesting you have a living will is about making 40 bucks to do the work for you, its that simple and nothing more.

End of life counseling is not a living will, ie legal document, it is doctors or the government advising you what medicines and treatments you should undergo , A living will require no input from anyone on any of these things, it is a personal decision between the person making the living will and his/her loved ones, with a living will these decisions are already made without input from the government or the doctors or anyone else.

I could give a # what the GOP supported in 2003 its a personal and family decision which the government should not be involved in at all, dont try an put me in a GOP box I would be against this no matter what political party was supporting it.

Private companies can spam their clients with e-mails about services they offer. Private companies can spam individuals who are on customer lists they buy about services they offer. They are a private company; they can pretty much "encourage" their customers to take part of the services they offer.

The Federal Government is not a private entity. The Federal Government is not a private company. They have a very small set of services they are approved to offer. If anyone has any questions about the "services" the Federal Government are allowed to offer, read the Constitution. It sets out what the Federal Government can do in black and white......and it isn't all that muich.

And, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the Federal Government has any say in offering or encouraging any American citizen end of life counseling......mandatory or not.

That being said, everyone should have a living will. It ensures that your wishes are met when it comes to the end of your life and how you want to end it if you cannot vocalize those wishes.

Originally posted by skeptic1

And Corporations should not be private entities either...

They weren't when we started this country. They had charters which could be revoked at the peoples decision.

I'm all for the way we had capitalism... not this BS corporatism we have now where a corporation has person-hood.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 30-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Lawyers have been hocking their services for eons especially when these services pertain to wills and estate planning services. Just look at the ads in your small local papers, free times, modern maturity etc etc.

How is getting an ad from Legal Zoom considered end of life counseling? If you want a real lesson in end of life counseling, pay a visit to your local hospice. They will be glad to explain the difference between a living will and end of life counseling. My sister in law just went through the counseling process when her newborn was given only weeks to live. She lived for 3 days.

The thread title is very misleading.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by skeptic1

And Corporations should not be private entities either...

They weren't when we started this country. They had charters which could be revoked at the peoples decision.

I'm all for the way we had capitalism... not this BS corporatism we have now where a corporation has person-hood.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 30-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

How the hell does that have anything to do with the limits imposed on the Federal government by the Constitution?

I mean don't get me wrong, for once we actually agree on a point, but I'm just not following how you answered her question.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by midnightbrigade]

1. End of life counseling, as defined in some of the health care bills that were being written, did indeed cover living wills and other directives you want to give your family and/or loved ones when faced with the inevitability, sooner or later, of death. It was never restricted to those with terminal illnesses.

2. End-of-life counseling would not be mandatory. It would only be provided if requested by the patient.

3. Neither the government nor any agent of the government would give end-of-life counseling. The government's only role would be to reimburse the doctor of your choice should you decide to talk over these issues with a trusted physician.

4. These false charges of mandatory counseling for the terminally ill, administered by government agents, are some of the things that led to the hysteria about "death panels" and "pulling the plug on grandma."

5. I am far from death but have already had "end of life" discussions with my doctor in order to clarify for myself what my options might be and what I would really want.

5. It's all moot now. The hysterics have won out. The only effect on the government is that individuals will pay for their own counseling if they get it at all.