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93 Million Man Service Industry Strike, DO IT

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posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by amongus
 


You have no idea what your talking about.

I have run my own business for the last 15 years come hell or high water, I actually did just take a "job" sort of but I sign a w-9 and work on scale for what I accomplish, its just an add on and i'm at home on my own schedule

I haven't lived on a wage since college almost 20 years ago... I started my First Business that made real money at the age of 12

And I'm Smart and damn good at what I do and know how to motivate people, and MONEY motivates people, not misery, it's what Capitalism is all about

Any good business man knows that you need to allow people to consume in order to profit, if they can't consume you can't profit...

Your defending a downward spiral into socialism and Govt and corporate control... I mean I'm a "corporation" but that's not what i'm referring to... Massive corps are governments that can make their own rules without democratic process or simply Buy the actual government

I don't care what you do...your not part of that elite ownership, your stabbing yourself in the neck...

Guys with Millions don't come to Ats unless maybe they are "in the business" and hyping product some do...If I was a Millionaire, I would come...once a month lol... maybe never I dunno... But i'd be out a whole lot more...

None of this is good for small business, start ups or workers... that's 99% of us... your not a one percenter neither am I, you need to people to be able to buy whatever crap your hocking... to rise to that level...

Don't be in this trap and put other people down because you dream your going to be one of them, your not going to get the chance if people can't spend




posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 





May I ask... what Union paid minimum wage lol

Seriously, I have never heard of this in my life...

this sounds made up, I need details



"We're talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can't even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel.

A dead short across the productive element of society. Money being taken from people who are working hard providing the material and the labor.

They don't even know that this is being taken from them and it's in this huge river of wealth flowing into the banking cartel.

It's a staggering thought."
G. Edward Griffin




Unions are not the solution.

The problem is the Federal Reserve and the Committee for Economic Development. The first piece is specifically about farmers but the idea and those behind it are the same as for other industries. Please read it closely because the plan is to ouest farmers from the land require permits and paperwork to grow food and further put the squeeze on the middle class and the poor. The bills are up for a vote now. The second piece tells how the FED stole our wealth.





History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job

Though industrialization is usually portrayed as something that happened as a natural result of technology bringing about ever-increasing efficiency, this notion doesn't fit the facts....

The current level of economic concentration we see today is the result of careful strategic planning. If actions are not taken to support a less-capital intensive methods a handful of global transnational corporations control will soon control the entire food supply.
Farmers and livestock producers alike have been intentionally rendered price takers, while vested interests unfairly externalize environmental and production costs, capturing profits through monopolistic activities that should be halted through anti-trust enforcement by the US Department of Justice....

With World War II, America saw its agricultural system intentionally subjected to political policies that radically transformed it. What was once a decentralized system that provided a means to self sufficiency and independence for tens of millions of farmers was purposefully centralized into a capital-intensive fossil-fuel dependent system that restructured local economies, permitting their wealth to be extracted by what are now transnational cartels dedicated to the so-called free market and globalized trade at all costs.

This transformation was the result of organized plans developed by a group of highly powerful – though unelected – financial and industrial executives who wanted to drastically change agricultural practices in the US to better serve their collective corporate financial agenda. This group, called the Committee for Economic Development, was officially established in 1942 as a sister organization to the Council on Foreign Relations. CED has influenced US domestic policies in much the same way that the CFR has influenced the nation's foreign policies.[1]

Composed of chief executive officers and chairmen from the federal reserve, the banking industry, private equity firms, insurance companies, railroads, information technology firms, publishing companies, pharmaceutical companies, the oil and automotive industries, meat packing companies, retailers and assisted by university economists – representatives from every sector of the economy with the key exception of farmers themselves – CED determined that the problem with American agriculture was that there were too many farmers. But the CED had a “solution”: millions of farmers would just have to be eliminated

Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn't help but congratulate itself in another agricultural report called “A New US Farm Policy for Changing World Food Needs” for the efficiency of the tactics they employed to drive farmers from their land.[5]

The human cost of CED's plans were exacting and enormous.


CED's plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies. They also resulted in a massive migration to larger cities. The loss of a farm also means the loss of identity, and many farmers' lives ended in suicide [6], not unlike farmers in India today who have been tricked into debt and desperation and can see no other way out.[7]



THE FEDERAL RESERVE


From the Bank of England forward all the governments of Europe had central banks for a very good reason. The kings and princes of Europe had learned from hard experience that they could raise the taxes of their subjects only so high and then they had a revolt on their hands and they tended to lose their jobs (and .s). It appears that that natural level was about 40-43%; people will tolerate taxes up to about 40-43% and then they start digging in their heels and they just won't allow it to go any further. But with the central bank mechanism in place the lid was off. Now these governments could tax their people 50%, 60%, 70% and in some cases 80% of everything they produced and they did not have a revolt on their hands. They did not have resentment because the people didn't know that they were paying a tax. They knew that prices were going up, but they didn't understand why, they didn't know who was getting their lost purchasing power....

Let's stand back from the creature a few paces and take a look at its general form and shape and see what it is we got. We got a corporation chartered by Congress which was given an exclusive franchise to create our nation's money supply. We got a mechanism whereby Congress has been able to raise unlimited taxes from the American people without them even knowing that they're paying a tax and we got a mechanism whereby the banks can earn perpetual interest on nothing. That is the shape and form of the creature from Jekyll Island.

Actions have consequences and one of the consequences of this scam is what we call a "national debt." ...
Another way of measuring that is that we've had a known inflation of 1,000% since the Federal Reserve System was created. Another way of phrasing that is that a dollar in 1913 today buys about nine cents worth of goods. That's how much money has been taken from us, taxed from us, through this hidden process.

Have you ever wondered, as I used to, why don't we have more inflation than we have had? ... This expression of exporting inflation--what does that mean? It means 70% of the American currency that has been created by our Federal Reserve System is no longer in America, it's overseas....

What happens when the day comes when for whatever reason these countries can no longer, or no longer wish to, use American dollars? What are they going to do with those dollars? They'll send them back. They'll buy something with them while they can. It'll be a big rush. It'll be our refrigerators, our automobiles, our real estate, our high-rise buildings, our corporate stock, our politicians, whatever's for sale. All of this money will come in and then we'll find out in a very short period of time what the true inflation rate really should have been all of these years.

Thomas Edison said, "People who will not turn a shovel-full of dirt on the project nor contribute a pound of materials will collect more money than will the people who will supply all the materials and do all the work." I wondered when I read that if Tom was exaggerating so I got my calculator out. I assumed that there was going to be a $100,000 house built. I assumed that $30,000 would have to go for land, architect's fees and permits and that kind of thing. $70,000 would go for the actual construction of the house, building materials and labor. I assumed that the buyer would go to the bank and put 20% down and then borrow the balance at 10% over 30 years. I punched in the numbers and discovered that the borrower will pay to the bank in interest $172,741 compared to $70,000 paid for the construction of the house. In other words, about 2 1/2 times as much money will be paid to the bank in interest than will be paid to those who provide all the labor and all the materials. And you may say to yourself, yes but that's fair, after all a 30 year loan is a long loan and people work for their money and sacrifice its use and loan it and so forth and deserve to be compensated. No. Not this money. Nobody worked for this money, nobody saved this money. There was no sacrifice of any kind for this money. This money was created out of nothing and I suggest that $172,741 interest on nothing is excessive!

I think it's time for a new definition of usury as follows: any interest on any loan of fiat money (meaning money made out of nothing). This example of a $100,000 home, as shocking as it is, producing $172,741 unearned interest, this is just a grain of sand in the Sahara. You have to multiply that by all the homes in America, by all of these hotels in America, all the high-rise buildings, all the factories, all the airplanes, automobiles, farm equipment, schools, everything, all the physical assets of America. You apply this same ratio and can you see it in your mind? We're talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can't even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel. A dead short across the productive element of society. Money being taken from people who are working hard providing the material and the labor. They don't even know that this is being taken from them and it's in this huge river of wealth flowing into the banking cartel. It's a staggerin



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Well Star for that,

And sure, Unionization and better care for workers is not the ONLY answer for a fundamentally robber baron system that is flawed and broken and basically stealing allot of money.

But it's been that way for over a century, longer really...

I fundamentally agree with your point...

But it leads to revolution

And we either want a fast bloody revolution we may never recover from in which lives will be lost in which we fracture America attempting out fo rage to go straight for the gut...

OR

We want to sanely as Americans take piece by piece the system back under control.

As i explained to Sancho, these threads are a line of thought about how to safely and effectively gain control again

The first was the great Vote Out, a unified removal of all entrenched politicians from the system and replace them with ordinary citizens, not from a place of agreement, but rather to remove those bought and sold from office and open America up to a variety of parties and interests that actually represent our real world views and beliefs.

Very SIMPLE very within our rights... Vote them out, shake up the system, get represented

This...

Is about a simple solution for our Economic woes...

We can't do SQUAT aside from run through the streets like the French revolution chopping .s if we have no money.

What the Fed stole we aren't getting back,

But we cam through mass and United movement gain back...

Legal representation in the work place

Wages that allow the bulk of Americans to have the TIME available to read, study go to school... get educated...


You are RIGHT

But phase ONE

Get men in office who are on our side, rock them out of power... NOTHING cans top us from doing that

Phase 2

Strike and demand from these men, that we receive the ability to educate ourselves... to Eat better, to get some rest, to THINK

Because most Americans are too overworked, stressed and time bogged to even begin to understand what you are talking about...

These people, what's left of most of them...

They can Understand... "get the bums out of office" we have been screwed by the Republicans and by the Democrats... this is Simple, this is easy

They Can Understand "I need more money, my boss overworks me...some smart guys need to represent me"

You and I might ponder the intricacies of the Fed... but most don't know, most don't care...

and they wont unless we piece by piece get back whats been taken, freedom, freedom of speech, basic wages.

Without those things... all we got from the bulk of the public is frightened people, frighten people like dogs eventually bite...

Problem is... they know this and will be long gone and these people when they blow will kill, everyone else except those who deserve it, maybe you, maybe I... maybe they touch a Federal building or 12 lol... but they won't get the guys who did it.

It's not like they did this overnight, it's been a little at a time for 100 years

And that's how we are going to win, same method, patient, piece by piece together taking back the power...

First things first... we need to have some money.... even if your going to fight (which is insane) doing it when people don't have money to even stock up on beef jerky and flashlights is suicide...

We need to get the truely entrenched and connected out so they can't coordinate fighting back...

We need to be smart and we need to work in a way the world at large accepts and supports...

Yeah.... You got it right

I'm just breaking it down into simple effective legal steps they can't call out the army on us for doing



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by amongus
Proposing a strike is a slap in the face for the millions of americans who have been laid off over the past several years. You don't like your job? Well just be glad you have one.



And why don't you answer WHY Millions of Americans have been laid off?

Walk into a supermarket lately? 2 cashiers and long lines, why is that? It's grotesque profiteering.

We should be Thankful we are allowed to work at all? Accept what crap is handed because we don't deserve squat anyway?

LIFE LIBERTY and THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS


PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, nothing in there about being grateful to simply have a job and shut up and take what we are given



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 





And sure, Unionization and better care for workers is not the ONLY answer for a fundamentally robber baron system that is flawed and broken and basically stealing allot of money.

I agree we have plenty of power to cause change within the system IF we the people, become educated. (I hand out info on the weekends)

I understand where you are coming from however my dad organized a union back in the fifties, the Mafia moved in beat the sh@# out of him and ran him out of town. There is a very good chance the Unions will just be another tool in the hands of the "banker/corporate cartel just like the political Activists, media and the education system

By the way you forgot one other very important right we have and which has been lost to us through intentional "misinformation" Merry Colin says it better than I can.



THE PEOPLE

The People have the ultimate power. They choose their representatives when they vote. However, the ultimate power and insurance they have against government run amok is their power in the jury.

It is the jury who decides on whether there is “probable cause” to cause a person to answer to the court AFTER they have heard testimony given under “oath or affirmation”. Today’s system is so perverted that we actually allow ONE prosecutor to decide if, when, and what charges will be brought, if any! This is the first place the people have given away their power.

If a grand or petit jury decides charges should be brought against someone, it is they who get to decide to what extent after hearing an unbiased reason IN LAW for the proposed charges. This is the second place the citizen gives away his power. If an accused is called to answer charges, the JURY alone not only decides upon guilt or innocense; THEY have the right to judge the law that the accused is alledged to have broken. That is where the term “jury nullification” comes from. A modern jury simply gives a verdict of “not guilty” which does NOTHING to challenge the law they are judging! Of course, they are not “nullifying” their verdict; the attempt is to nullify the law whether it is unconstitutional or improperly applied.

The potential jury member of today is UNLAWFULLY instructed by the judge that they are triers of the facts and nothing more. Any potential juror who did not assent to those instructions and who understood the ancient right of declaring a law unconstitutional would not be allowed to sit on a jury. A judge is NOTHING more than a referee and is there to be certain that the laws are applied, and in some cases, interpreted and used in that manner as he sees they were meant to be.

HOWEVER, the jury is still the final judge— they can ignore a judge they feel he is wrong. This is the third and final chapter in the People’s forfeiture of their rights! They simply do not understand that the SCOTUS is not the final judge— THEY ARE!



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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In my own industry we always joke that just as soon as they can figure out a way to replace us all with robots, they will. Really, though, it's not so funny. It happened in manufacturing and it is happening in virtually every sector.

Besides technology and automation replacing actual people, over the past five years in particular, I have been witness to the steady suppression of salaries, benefits and hours.

The amount of profit flowing upwards is staggering compared to what is actually being spent on operations and human resources.

It's accurate to say that the quality of a new car, a washing machine, a dress or a piece of furniture today is nothing to what it was even ten years ago. Eveything is crap but yet the prices are sky high and have been steadily rising as the quality goes down.

The earnings are most certainly not being re-invested in the workforce, materials or facilities. Most workplaces have very poor working conditions and bare bones resources with which to do the job.

Where is all of that profit? At the very top of the corporate structure - in plush offices and gated communities.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 





The earnings are most certainly not being re-invested in the workforce, materials or facilities. Most workplaces have very poor working conditions and bare bones resources with which to do the job.

Where is all of that profit? At the very top of the corporate structure - in plush offices and gated communities.


What many Americans missed was the change in banking laws in the 1980's that lead to "leveraged buyouts" and "Hostile Takeovers" As G. Edward Griffin states below the bankers do not want well run no-debt corporations like Gillette. They caused the speculators of the roaring 20's and the crash of the thirties and ended up with the assets after the speculators jumped out the windows. The Bankers just repeated the same strategy again. Well run no-debt Corporations were bought with bank "pixie dust" and then torn apart and shipped over seas. (A friend had a business packing up Us factories and shipping them overseas)

If a company stayed in the USA it had a high debt burden forcing a “value-enhancing effect”.of improved efficiency, eliminating wasteful corporate expenditure, encourages the sale of low-performing divisions. In effect removing employee benefits, firing older/high paid employees and replacing them with lower salary foreign born employees. Link

Massive regulation, leveraged buyouts followed by Clinton and his World Trade Organization and NAFTA ratifications are what finally polished off US industry and our decent wage jobs

Article by G. Edward Griffin


In particular I'd like to have you look with me at three particular objectives which were very well discussed in that period in which the Federal Reserve System was created....

Objective number two was to reverse the trend of what is called private capital formation. That's banker language for a process in which an individual or a corporation uses their own savings to pay for something instead of going to the bank and borrowing it, if you can imagine that happening. It was happening at the turn of the century. The trend was that businesses in particular were withholding some of their dividends each quarter and putting that money into a sinking fund and then as the money accumulated or as the capital formed, then they finally had enough that they could use their own money to build that new factory or to launch a research & development project or whatever instead of going to the banks and borrowing for it.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


You know, these are some of the reasons that Unions basically died and we all work for crap pay these days...

Mafia involvement

Yeah... like every system things have failures and need to be done again.

But this is the sort of discussions we need to have to find solutions, great input...

There were indeed major faults with the original Unions, imho not big enough faults for them to be almost gone as they are and workers completely unrepresented like this is the turn of the previous century

Perhaps like govt union officials should have to be elected by Democratic process with a system of checks and balances...

Digital voting... I see as a hope for both Democracy if ever implemented and other aspects of life... taking things like extortion or other negatives out of the process...

I actually would like to see actual legislation be UNREPRESENTED, in other words, the public or in this case Union workers vote directly on issues via computers...

The entire Democratic process fails by representation in that representatives can be bought and paid for

It has never been viable for the people to vote before... every day would be election day, a nightmare

But with digital voting and multiple redundant counting locations, we can eliminate things like the mafia or corruption from ruining things.

In any event, I dare say, completely unrepresented workers is a nightmare that needs to end



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by kosmicjack
 


Agreed, basic premise of the thread...

But sadly in actuality, "all the money" isn't in those hands... lots is to keep it quiet, but the real money basically vanishes...

you work for a company, the Ceo's get paid top dollar huge amounts to suppress labor make profits, insane things like giving one less package of ketchup at Mc Donald's over 400 locations = 1.2 Million extra at the end of the year.

They get shared in but the rest goes into the company bank accounts...to the banks

The Banks is where it sits or is lost through whatever corruption is occurring, every company is owned by a bigger Company and what you have is corporations and Banks at the top that in the end control more money than whole countries...

Not elected but with the power of Nation States



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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I proposed a few months ago a Worker Party to compete with the do nothing but screw the public parties. I dont know about you but I can count. I think there are more workers in this country than there are Repulicanots and the Demosuck.s.
I figure it would be a single party in power, farmer dan won President. wilma of wilma flowers won VP. jessie ventura got promoted to joint chief of staff. ron paul is secutary of state. its a bright day for America, debt free. crime free. good schools, clean water, health care.. these are problems we the people can fix, if we didnt have greedy fingers sucking the coffers dry... we all pitch in for a self suffiecient America.

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Anti-Evil]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Evil
 


Yeah... your in line with this series of threads i've been doing... The previous as I have said was about voting 3rd party...

Thing is a workers Party will sound communistic to allot of Red Blooded Americans, but I think this is a good example of how things in life are Circles not straight lines.

Capitalism fails without a strong working class...



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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May I also add to your "fix-it" list?

1) We need to lower taxes.

I could live off the amount of money that was taken out of my taxes last year. My daughter's gross annual income last year was LESS than what was taken out of my paycheck last year for taxes. She makes more than minimum wage.

Excise tax is acceptable and was originally intended to be used for public projects and benefiting the constituents paying them. Income tax is an insult and a form of slavery.

2) Every time our lawmakers vote themselves a pay raise, minimum wage should also be increased by the same percentage they gave to themselves. If they give themselves (out of taxpayers pockets) a 2% raise then wages across the board should also be raised 2%. Fair's fair.

3) Allow people to own land based on the work they put into it. If you're productive and willing to improve your lot in life, raising the standard for yourself and others then the land is yours, tax free. If you're a slovenly layabout that trashes the place and destroys the resources, you pay "rent" to the state who can add the surplus to it's coffers.

4) Get Federal government and their piddly regulations and copious paperwork out of business. There should be certain standards of safety, of course, but we have a burgeoning bureaucracy that feeds on itself which is why so many American companies are going overseas to start companies rather than keeping the industry here.

5) Quit funding every black ops and covert project in the world. Charity begins at home. We have plenty of homeless and hungry right in our own back yard. If people had 5 acres (for example), they could feed themselves, gain some pride in themselves, want to be productive and giving to their neighbors. If nothing is ever truly yours then the incentive to produce is seriously dampened.

$20,000.00 for a mil spec hammer is obviously a lie. All that extra money is going for the rope to hang ourselves. $200.00 for a haircut!? For that kind of money I want a massage and a happy ending.

6) Cut welfare. Allow all those receiving benefits to continue receiving benefits for 2 years only and pay for their trade school education. When they become tax paying citizens, they can slowly pay back all the money they took from the public coffer. It should only be allowed once in your life.

7) Abolish interest. Or put a cap of 2% on it. Usury is only for an enslaved population not for the free citizens of a country. It is the original form of tribute from a conquered people.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


I'm HUGE with you on Military cuts...

If I had it my way, we would withdraw entirely from over seas... end all but near complete black budget projects for a good 5 years minimum, that's 500,000,000 into infrastructure right there... Black Budget alone probably we could save Total a Trillion a year I think, maybe more... War cost, Black Budget, deployment

I go straight to defense of the continent only

But we are way off topic...

fr these things to happen we need power back... The Vote

And then solid legal representation against the corporations stealing us blind



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by midnightbrigade
 


I agree with you midnight brigade.

-MOPUS



There would need to be legislation that prevents them from doing so, In a world of lobbying that would be hard to accomplish, but again 93 million people not going to work for a bit and rent striking would destroy the economy they would have no choice but to do something about it.


A Standardized Universal Price Ceiling would cripple any economy, or in the least, lower the standard of living drastically.

Any price ceiling below the free-market equilibrium would cause a shortage in supply and if the product is something important (gas for heating), people will suffer.

Imagine going to the grocery store when the store gets a shipment and having to fight your way through. Imagine that every time you shopped it would be like those day-after-thanksgiving sales. I can easily see people stabbing or beating each other up over bread or milk.

Minimum Wage is a complete disregard for sound economics and labor markets. It is a failed attempt to control economic cycles, and now we see what was sown.

What it comes down to is this. EXAMPLE: I need some help painting my neighbors shed(lets say it's a 3 person job and takes 4 hours to do the multiple coats), and my neighbor is paying me 100 dollars to paint it. The only people I can legally hire have a minimum wage of $12 an hour. I can hire two of these people and make a net profit of $4, or just not waste my time and enjoy a nice Saturday afternoon of Football.

This is a microexample of what actually happens.

If you work a low-wage job while minimum wage is increased watch the price increase and/or the quality decrease. I have seen it this year. Money is tight for everyone.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


well, I dont know what to say, before 1868. we were a nation of Kings self Soverigns on our own land. since that date, we got horn swaggoled into paying property taxes. so, we could have the best schools on the earth. we did that. and destroyed it. but the Tax Remains. and oh, yea... we are no longer kings because you cant own your land... you rent it from your County. ... dont pay the tax an see what happens. same if you rented and didnt pay rent.


[edit on 24-9-2009 by Anti-Evil]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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Sorry OP,

I cannot disagree with your post more.

As a 20 year veteran of the service industry, as a restaurant owner, operator, chef and cook, I can tell you that in my country the average profit margin of a restaurant is 4.3% and that this includes all chain restaurants including macdonalds etc. What this means, given that the larger chain restaurants typically yield a 10%+ profit margin because of their larger than average general revenues, that the average independant restaurant profits at fewer than 3%. As labour cost in the restaurant industry averages at about 35% nationwide in Canada, food cost at 37%, and fixed cost such as rent, utilities etc at about 8% (leaving roughly 20% left over with which to by napkins, cutlery, paper towel, toilet paper, straws etc, etc, etc), a unionized workforce in the service industry would do nothing less than force most independant operators to close their doors period.

Consider that:
average tips in a full service restaurant is 15% of sales
many restaurant have a tip share policy of roughly 3.5% of sales.

servers in a full service restaurant thus yield 15% of sales+ their hourly wage
kitchen and other support staff yield 3.5% +their (higher) hourly wage
restaurant owners yield...hmm, 3-4.8% of their total sales.
Typically a restaurant manager, chef or owner works between 50-60 hours per week, earning a take home salary that is often 20% lower than what a server who works 30-40 hours/week takes home after tips.

consider also that 40% of the cost of your food (depending where you are in the world) is related directly to the cost of oil--whether that be transportation or machine costs.

Ugh, sorry OP...my feathers are ruffled.
tamale

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Tamale_214]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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I was a union worker (ILWU local 25) and the only thing take many unions have done is drive jobs over seas.

The few unions that have any power left are the unions that cover jobs that can not go offshore or hire illegals. teachers, fire and police, prison guards,

Unions like the machinist, auto workers, manufacturing, have lost 80+% of there work force to overseas countries.
there may be a number of auto worker on assembly lines but the are building cars with foreign made parts.

And i do not blame the american people for buying foreign when the unions aline themselves with the treehugging democrats that drive jobs overseas with there environmental laws.

Some day the unions will get wise and dump the democrats and there anti labor treehugging.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


To further my discussion I offer the following to your proposed points.
1 reversal of overtime to include over 8 hrs a day not a two week period
mmm...whatever. Paying overtime is reasonable...if business needs to lean on an employee, they should pay to do so.

2. Guarantee of a certain percentage of hrs dedicated to overtime.
This is just bad business and social economics...overtime should only be utilized to fulfill short term work shortages, an employer who consistently pays out overtime to staff is an employer who is poorly organized or encumbered by a work shortage in his/her community. Employees can and should value their time away from work and ought not to demand overtime.

1. Elimination of the ability to not pay minimum wage to employees that receive "tips"
As I pointed out in my previous post above, tip-earners often receive an inordinate amount of their take home pay from tips. If I, as a business owner were to be forced to pay a waiter 12$/hr, that is an increase of 25% to my labour cost. Ultimately, this means that I am forced to dramatically increase my prices in order to cope, thus increasing the cost of living, thus ultimately forcing the local political/union authority to increase my minimum wage...A vicious cycle.


3.Guarantees for minimum raises over time.
In response to cost of living/inflation increases maybe, but just because? Why?

4. Vacation time DOUBLED like Europe and Paid
*Where I am employers pay for 3 weeks of vacation yearly, I don't know what it is like where you are.

5. Minimum #'s of employees on duty vs gross profits i.e Walmart can't keep 2 people on register and hire low on nights were they take 30,000 dollars, requirements to not overwork minimum numbers of staff.
*on one hand you want a guaranteed minimum # of overtime hours...on the other hand, what does it mean to overwork staff...if one is ringing thing in through a till system and accepting customer payment, this is not hard work. On that note, please describe the metrics of calculating the minimum # of employees on duty vs gross profits.


6. Service is crap...pure crap with these business practices it is inconceivable to me when i walk into a mega mart of sorts at 11 at night and there are 200 people in the store, no one to help you but a skeleton crew and one register line open, it's abominable, the prices aren't even cheap anymore so where do these profits go?
*in reverse...like in so many industries, the profits go to big oil, they are the companies that make money off of most of what you buy, and they make the most profits off of what you buy...wake up everything needs to be transported and the oil companies are the the primary industry that, time after time, makes a significant off of the product that you buy.
...it's 11pm, what do you need at the mega mart? what does anyone need for that matter? Mayhaps the management thinks the same way I do and scheduled accordingly. Mayhaps, the manager has difficulty keeping staff because noone thinks that working at the megamart is fulfilling to them....

This is asking for nothing, but giving back what was common employee related practice 20-25 years ago.



2: Divorce insurance

This as part of any benefits package and available fairly, I was divorced and all I will say is if you want an economy to work with an 80% divorce rates you should be able to pay 5-10.00 a week and if divorced for man and woman receive, 10 g at least, to buy a car, get a new apt and feed your kids or make any basic payments.

* you want your employer to pay for you to have divorce insurance? GIVE ME A BREAK...Should your empoyer pay you extra because your having a hard time focussing on work because you're fighting with you husband/wife because you spend too much time at the bar?

Something at least of this nature, no one should starve or loose a place to live due to this event that affects almost every single one of us practically at one time or another.
*again...it is not your employers responsibility to ensure that you are happy at home, well clothed or well fed...it doesn't happen to everyone, and when it does, most people take responsibility for themselves.

It might not be a pretty part of American culture, but if you can't be there for your kids you end up with damaged traumatized children who the rest of us then have to live with for the next 70 years.

* why aren't you proposing a 4 day work week rather than a national strike?

I don't propose this as welfare, but if the same 93 million Americans above were being paid fairly 10 or 20 dollars a week would be immaterial to assure your life in the event of a tragedy
*$20x93millionx52=$96,720,000,000.00. Betcha the US military would like a budget of that sort.

Amounts could reflect what you have paid in like ss security have finite caps but we can't have holes in our society

*???
#3 Minimum wage HAS to by law reflect the poverty line... that would up minimum wage at a guess to 10.00 - 11.00 an hr.
I'm ok with this in principle, however, I wonder where you get your poverty line stats, where I am, the poverty line is at 17500.00/a year, this equates to $8.41/hour.


fin

[edit on 24-9-2009 by Tamale_214]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


Please don't take offense here, but whenever I hear complex economic theories they come from 2 sources, economic students and professors that really don't know much about people or making money or Very wealthy individuals who adhere to a process of being incredibly Cheep in order to keep stuffing their mattress...

No one said anything about any set ceilings on prices.

Just a method to contro1 price gouging.

Complex economic theories are always justification for social rape and pillage I have never seen an example where they are not.

And the minimum wage has Not slowed down the economy for anyone but wealthy intellectuals who make Billions.

When I say, that My buddy's work place clears the entire rent in one day.

The entire cost in 2 days more

And all the employees wages including the manager and that maybe... maybe it takes a total of 5 days of a 30 day month in which to break profit and he comes home with 70.00. that is not a reason to not raise the minimum wage, that is not a reason to raise prices and SOME manner of control and fairness needs to be implemented.

I never said a ceiling but justifiable limitations or percentages to what employees make...

I don't care if a mandatory 10% is added to employee checks at the end of the month vs profits, no one should work for a fraction of a percent of the take, it's slavery

Businesses function fine that way, when I do sales at my level I get between 20% and 40% regularly

But because you sell Pizza or run a fryalator you get sent home with less then the rent you need while the owner takes 99%

It's wrong, I would NEVER treat any employee that way and you might find every economic reason in the world to say that well 'If we do that, then they will just play with losses or profits and...balha blah blah"

The next step is they go to jail then... or get lynched whatever you prefer, tar and feathered.

Minimum wage as failing is based on NONSENSE where it is believed people simply wont.... do whatever or purchase whatever if they have to pay... and small business will suffer.

It's a crap theory based on numbers not people

What has happened to small business, minimum wage didn't run it out...

RENT Prices and Megacorps did

In NY in the backward end of Brooklyn My Buddy pays 2.5 Insurance, about 2.5 utilities and 15 G RENT to lease a small store...

he's out 20 G before he opens his doors...

Employees maybe 2.0 a Month minimum wage

You can come up with any reason and paint it in any words you want

20 G goes to the MAN and 2 G to workers, if that Number went to 3 G it wouldn't be the factor that put him out of business.... it's just animals at the top of the food chain raping small business people and turning them in trade into Animals themselves...forcing them to pay insane insurance prices, outlandish rents and it's greed and it's Capitalism run amok

Then Walmart comes and puts 100 stores out of business because you can shop all in one place...

Now a decade later after their LOW LOW prices got people to use them... They now charge the same price as anywhere else for cheap Chinese junk and it's a rip off...

That's not Capitalism that's Rape and Slavery and it needs to be restrained...

Where One Walmart once was a Local Shoe store... a Clothing store a toy store, a Hardware store, on and on...

Now there is a crap stand Walmart, where there were Diners there is now Dennys

The worst part is it sucks

Small Businesses actually gave us service and Jobs, and it's Insane no matter what mumbo jumbo you create to claim that minimum wage is a problem for small business... the TRUTH, when you worked for Ma and Pa for a few years they took care of you 99% of the time as an employee, you got bonuses and xmas gifts and days off if you needed them...

Corp Crap America gives us Dope tests, invasion of privacy and they cycle you out as your reward when you are there too long.

It's like living and shopping and working in a Jail and the stuff breaks and is garbage.

If I go into Jack in the box and get a job i'll get to 9.00 and be fired, if I work for a HUMAN i'm liable to be well taken care of be able to support my family even if I am a moron.

And they made sure somehow rents rose soooo High by paying top dollar for prime space that you never can be that employer any more even if you are in business and manage to survive.

It's not just low pay it's a life people HATE to live in.

You go any where in America and it's an endless sea of this Pure junk, it's like a Clown Store every where bright colors employees that don't generic stuff and WE ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE WORLD

It's a joke... There NEEDS to be a minimum wage because there almost is no small business and if that's the reason why, then fine under 5 employees you get 4.00 an hr less you have to pay employees, lower minimum wage until acertain point...

But a 7-11 making 120,000 a Month will go broke because they bay 10.00 to one person behind the register all night instead of 7.00, that's utter nonsense, no one needs to be an economist to see that.

A company makes a 20 Million dollar Quarter and upping everyone a couple of bucks will "make them raise prices?"

That has to become ILLEGAL

Your giant corporate warehouse displaces 25 businesses you HAVE to hire x numbers of people you are not a small business your a JOB PROVIDING INSTITUTION at that point subject to penalties if you abuse the people you are supposed to SERVE,

Corporate chains, Crap product, crap abusive jobs, neighborhood wreckers, life destroyers

and I am not in that issue personally I KNOW better and work for self... but I am sick and disgusted watching this happen to my neighbors, my friends and people I actually care about...


93 Million person service Industry strike...

why?

Because of Garbage bologna excuses like this one you gave as to why people can't be treated like human beings for performing menial labor



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 11:24 PM
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And just for any big business siding economists

I WANT TO GO TO MY CORNER TO BUY MY KID A MILK SHAKE AGAIN AND GET IT IN A BIG COLD GLASS MADE IN A TIN WITH LEFT OVERS BECAUSE IT WAS TOO BIG FOR THE GLASS AND HAVE IT GIVEN TO ME BY A NICE OLD LADY THAT ISN'T SICK FROM STRESS AND MISERABLE BUT RUNS A NICE LITTLE SHOP AND LOVES TO SEE ME AND MY KIDS COME IN

I DO NOT WANT SOME WATERED DOWN CRAP IN STYROFOAM CUP WITH GOD KNOWS WHAT CHEMICALS LEAKING FROM IT AND SOME CRAP PLASTIC CAP AND PAY 2X AS MUCH FOR IT AND IT'S NOT EVEN REAL ICE CREAM BUT SOME JUNK FROM A BACTERIA RIDDEN MACHINE THAT HAS SAT THERE ROTTING FOR 2 DAYS BEFORE IT'S SQUEEZED LIKE SOME ROBOTIC TURD FROM A HOSE AND HANDED TO ME BY SOME MISERABLE UNDERPAID PERSON WHO HATES HIS JOB IS SNOTTY TO ME AND LOOKS LIKE A RETARD DRESSED UP IN BRIGHT COLORS BEING FORECD TO GIVE ME A FAKE SMILE WITH HIS ROTTEN TEETH

Any justification for this kind of business is unpatriotic, comes from a set of horribly lowered standards and has no decency or compassion for my fellow man...

I am in business, i'm not stuck at these jobs...

but i have to buy this crap and live like a CLOWN because of it, i want to punch someone in the face if I go into a Mc Donalds its a disgrace, i see the kid looking like a complete puts and i want to kick his rear end for no reason

This is America? Some awful colored disgust of a trashy tacky pile of dog poop

Burn it down if they don't stop... strike who cares...

Get our self respect back...

They wondered why Euro Disney is a Big flop? They aren't Stupid that's Why... who the heel wants to get dressed as Goofy for 7.50 an hr, what kind of respect less undignified donkey is enjoying this PUKE


Sorry for rant... but everyone with a brain knows what i'm saying...

Give me a GOD damned burger after 9.00 without forcing me to eat food that will kill me, stop accepting this, get the poppers out of your damn mouths and do something for christ sakes...

Sorry to rant but come on...

They got to raise prices at Walmart and McDonalds to pay The kid with all the Zits an extra 2.00 an hr? BULL POO

and damn it... make them take of those friggin moronic hats, they embarrass me to be an American

Rant Over




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