Over half of the people at the UN walked out during Ahmadinejad's speech

reply to post by sos37


I find it ironic that someone from Texas is decrying the state of Capital Punishment and Homosexual Rights in another country.

Especially in light of the fact that up until 2008, the crime of child rape (the main focus of two of the three articles you posted) also carried the death sentence in Texas. As of 2005, Texas still applied the death penalty for minors - something that was only overturned by a supreme court ruling - so in theory, given that the crime occurred in 2005, they would have been just as eligible for the death penalty for their crime in Texas as Iran.

Oh, and the only reason that you can't be charged under Texas's sodomy laws is because the Supreme Court struck that in 2003. The law is still on the books, but it's unenforceable. Homosexuality is still a crime in Texas. Up to 2003, it would get you 5 years to Life in Idaho.

I'm opposed to the death penalty for any crime, anywhere. I think that civilization should move on from such a barbaric practice. But to isolate some countries for practicing the death penalty while keeping normal relations with others for practicing the same form of brutality is absurd.

And frankly, the same applies to cultural attitudes towards homosexuality. In effect, you are saying that they should be isolated for behavior that your own society accepted only 6 years ago.

And as for this statement:

* Countries that oppose Iran are considered evil; again, there is no room and no appreciation for differences.

Freedom Fries. That's all I've got to say. Freedom Fries.

His speech was taylor made for the Western audience. It was a ruse.

To know this type of megalomaniac and whats in his mind, you must turn to his speeches to those who think like him.

Anyone basing their opinion of him on this contrived speech for the Western Media is a damn fool and he is betting there are plenty of damn fools having conversations just like this one.

He is still the man who has openly stated his desire to commit genocide both against the Jews and the "Great Satan" (us for the naive).

He is still the same man who denies free speech to his own citizens.

He is still the same man who kills those who don't agree with him.

He is still the same man who is in charge of a Terrorist Organization that has strapped bombs to themselves and their women and children to blow up innocent civilians.

He is the same man who used the same group to go into Iraq, not to kill American Soldiers but to kill other Muslims.

He is still the same man who just lost an election and took power anyway.

He is still the same man who had people killed who protested the fake elections.

He is still the same man who believes in killing Gays simply because they are Gay.

He is still the same man who believes in stoning women to death for sexual indiscretions.

He is still the same man who in his youth treated American Hostages with brutality while they were being held prisoner in Iran.

Since he hates everyone in the West simply because they do not belong to his particular Faith and wants us dead. Since he thinks and has said he may be the Last Imam. Anyone who is not a member of his Faith and in particular his exact version of that Faith and supports him is the definition of a damn fool.

jsobecky has it right... the guy is a racist, homophobic, power-corrupt, religeous zealot/dictator. Was his speech laced with obvious discourse about how screwed up the world is and how certain national powers are responsible for much of the trouble? Sure it was and it was mostly correct... but anyone can spout obvious condemnation. He spent a lot of time trying to deflect focus from the thing he wishes to hide the most. Much of his speech was wildly hypocritical. The outright abuse of his own people (frequently and truthfully documented by countless reporters from around the world) is irrefutable. He needs to go.

For anyone interested, take a moment to view this Iranian woman's plea during the UN talks last week:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by vox2442


I am really tired of those that live in other countries pretending to know what goes on in the US. All you have is the fringe media and the internet. FYI, there are many obsolete laws on the books in many states that are no longer enforced. Don't cry out how freakin moral Japan is, at least we don't murder and eat whales and dolphins while claiming it's for scientific study. Disgusting!!!

reply to post by playingthru




Thank you for that link to the video on UN Watch. This is the regime that some here have compared to "Gandhi-like". :shk:

The people of Iran are a good people; educated and aware. They do not wish to live under such a murderous regime. Unfortunately, when they protest their 'gov't', they are persecuted...jailed and murdered.

And yet there are those here who still defend Ahmadinejad. Why? I can only guess that they hate the US too much to see what is happening in Iran.

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
I am really tired of those that live in other countries pretending to know what goes on in the US. All you have is the fringe media and the internet. FYI, there are many obsolete laws on the books in many states that are no longer enforced. Don't cry out how freakin moral Japan is, at least we don't murder and eat whales and dolphins while claiming it's for scientific study. Disgusting!!!

1) I've lived and worked in the USA before. I also spent the first 25 years of my life living in areas where I could drive across the border in an hour if I wanted to, and I was close enough to watch watch american TV every night. I've spent significant amounts of time in 38 states. I have family in 4 of them. I'm not as unfamiliar with the USA as you might think.

2) The case histories, execution rates, and lists of condemned prisoners / executed prisoners is available through a variety of US state and federal government agencies. Hardly fringe media.

3) I have not mentioned Japan in this thread - and if Japan has been alluded to, it's in my statement on Capital Punishment - as Japan also has the death penalty.

4) If you think you're sick of foreigners commenting on internal matters, just imagine how Iran must feel.

My point, if you'd care to read it again, is that the USA - relevant here because they are the second most vocal nation in the world when it comes to Iran's internal matters - has been, in the not too distant past, guilty of many of the same attitudes towards the death penalty, homosexuality, human rights, democracy, freedom of speech, and a host of other issues. I chose to pick on Texas specifically because that's where the poster is from, and because Texas is infamous for its execution rates.

But let's compare apples to apples, shall we? Let's take the USA right out of the picture.

Saudi Arabia has one of the worst records on human rights abuses across the board. They've got the death penalty for trade union membership and cross-dressing. Political parties are also illegal. Talking about any religious tradition that isn't the state's brand of Islam is a crime. Up until 2004, it was against the law for Jews to be in the country - and even today, you stand a good chance of being denied entry if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport. Slavery was abolished in 1962 - but continues. By every measurable standard they are a far worse nation to their citizens than Iran. Furthermore, Saudi terrorists have been responsible for the deaths of dozens of westerners in Saudi Arabia (with injuries in the hundreds), as well as being behind the 9/11 attacks - and in the domestic cases (assassination of expatriates), it's been clear that the Saudi Police have been unwilling to prosecute those responsible - to the point of arresting people who have just had a mailbox explode beside them.

Far from there being a lack of outcry over Saudi Arabia, the international community fawns over them. Every single leader in the western world has gone out of their way time and time again to befriend the House of Saud, and I'm not aware of any real criticism ever being leveled at their government - let alone sanctions or the threat of war.


Why is that?

Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass - but Iran is isolated and shunned?

reply to post by vox2442

Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass - but Iran is isolated and shunned?

For one simple reason, the Powers that Be will not be happy until the Peacock Throne is restored and the former Shah's son is crowned and sits upon it in Persia.

They absolutely are not going to let up on that. When a Royal Shah again sits on the throne the Western World and the Powers that Be will no longer care what attrocity occurs in Iran just as they did not care while the last Shah sat on the throne.

That is the real truth of the situtiaon.

reply to post by vox2442


Do you normally make a habit of generalizing people and invalidate their opinions because of the region they live in? Do we need to go into all of the problems and crime Japan has committed over the decades? If you need a reminder, I would be happy to give you one.

reply to post by vox2442


The answer to your question is Oil and the amounts thereof.

I would be surprised if anyone on this board would disagree with you on the absurdity of supporting the Saudi Arabian regime by the way.

reply to post by vox2442


So the basis of your argument is that because I am from Texas, the points I made are invalid. You know what? That has got to be the STUPIDEST thing I've seen posted this year, and believe me there have been some doozies.

The subject here is the leader of Iran speaking and why the leaders of other nations walked out on him. The answer is clear - Ahmadinejad doesn't represent the people of Iran, he represents the mullahs.

But people like you with tunnel vision look at a state and think that every person in that state must be exactly the same. So here - I'm going to spell this out for you in Romper Room English that even you can understand - try to pay attention and put your partisan bias and "holier than thou" attitude aside:

* Yes, Texas executes the most people of any other state in the nation. Texas executes killers. Not rapists, but killers. And the executions are not made public.

* There are many states that oppose gay marriage in the union, but none so far as I know say that it's a crime against God to BE homosexual and will execute you for it.

* In this country, people are free to speak their minds and protest without fear of the government killing them. In Iran you cannot say the same.

So there you have it. If you need help with reading comprehension please consult your parents who are probably in the next room.

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by vox2442

 

* In this country, people are free to speak their minds and protest without fear of the government killing them. In Iran you cannot say the same.

Man, that's one of the most naieve statements I've seen yet on ATS.

Would you like a list of names of people who would disagree if they were still alive to do so?

Perhaps I should clarify my position here. I thought that by walking out those world leaders are leaving no opportunity for peace talks or compromise. We will eventually have to sit down and learn to be tolerant of all people and help all nations as they can help us. I do not hate America I love my country and I appreciate the sacrifices people have made and are making for our freedom. However I did agree with some of the things said in the speech at the UN. I in no way endorse the president of Iran nor do I agree with his stance or anti Israel talk. If he is not careful he could provoke a war. We in America though should be seeking and pursuing all avenues of diplomacy to have a peaceful resolution to our differences. If that means biting your lip and sitting through a speech you don't want to hear, so be it. No progress will be made by dashing for the door everytime you hear something you do not like or agree with. Grow up. As a world leader or government official you have a duty to your country to keep your population safe and encourage brotherhood and sisterhood throughout the world. If you can't do the job right then step down. That's just my 2 cents worth.

reply to post by guardstarr


+1
I want to add this qualifier to my previous posts in this thread.

Let us review meanings. Because, sometimes you can use the same words but mean wildly different things.

So let us look at what some of the words he used mean to someone of his religious and cultural background. Tell me if these words mean the same thing to you.

Note that I have taken all sourcing from Islamic sources, not from their detractors.

Justice -
the placement of things into their rightful place where they belong according to the Koran. Equal treatment as it is defined by the Koran in its distribution of your rights and duties. Inequality is often deemed necessary to acheive justice. The measurement of the balance of justice is defined by the Koran and the Prophet, and it is all encompassing and universal. All means to achieve Justice as it is defined in the Koran and are not specifically mentioned to violate Islamice Law are fine and valid.

Justice is to put things in their rightful place, by any means not deemed specifically to violate the Koran, and those rightful places and their weight balanced against one another and where they are in terms of equality are laid out in the Koran.


Equality -

Please let me refer you to the Cairo Declaration On Human Rights in Islam.

Where you will find that all men are equal in terms of DIGNITY. and their obligations as they are found to be defined as God's subjects. God's place for you in submission is laid out in the Koran - your place, your value, your measurement against others. While you may have equal dignity, you also have your PLACE which is defined by Shar'ia.

All Human Rights are granted only so much as they do not proscribe Shar'ia.

You have the right to marriage, and all of society will come to bear upon this right. In which your place and roles are defined.

Shar'ia equality places men in charge of women. Shar'ia also defines how you may acquire and keep slaves, and treat them with proper justice in terms of their status.

You have rights to your equal care medically and socially BASED UPON YOUR AVAILABLE RESOURCES.

Peace -
To be at peace with God and oneself.

Peace means submission. Nothing you can do as a human can achieve peace. Peace is granted to you by submitting to God. It is the removal of anything that is between you and your submission to God.

[edit on 2009/9/25 by Aeons]

Now let us do some quote pulling.

politicaltheatrics.org...

“Oh, God, hasten the arrival of Imam Al-Mahdi and grant him good
health and victory and make us his followers and those who attest to his
rightfulness"

Mahdi. This would be like a Christian leader getting up and warming up the audience with promising the second coming of Christ. How willingly would you lap that up? He will lead a group of people who are spiritual at night, and like "lions" in the day.

"I have talked about the two conflicting outlooks prevailing in our world"

There are two great powers. Us Muslims, and the Western World.

"...... one that is based on the predominance of its materialistic interests through spreading inequality and oppression, poverty and deprivation, aggression, occupation and deception, and tends to bring the entire world under its control and impose its will on other nations. This outlook has produced nothing but frustration, disappointment and a dark future for the entire humanity."

This is a threat.

"The other outlook is the one that spouses with the belief in the oneness of the Almighty God, follows the teaching of His messengers, respects human dignity and seeks to build a secure world for all members of the human community, in which everybody can equally enjoy the blessings of sustainable peace and spirituality. The latter is an outlook that respects all human beings, nations, and valuable cultures in defiance of all types of discrimination in the world, and commits itself into a constant fight to promote equality for all before the law on the basis of justice and fraternity, laying a solid foundation to guarantee equal access for all human beings in their quest to excel in knowledge and science."

Notice religion isn't in this list.

Equality means the place you've been given by the Koran.

You achieve peace by submitting to Allah.

The other option than that of the Western World is to have all humanity have sustainable peace and justice. Which is granted by removing the obstacles between all people and their submission to Allah.

Knowledge is important in learning SO LONG AS IT LEADS TO ALLAH AND HIS COMMANDS. (that's a quote from the Prophet.)

"The present inequitable and unfavorable conditions run counter to the very nature of human kind and move in a direction which contravenes the truth and the goal behind the creation of the world."

Take a guess at what the "truth" is. Human beings were created to submit and worship Allah. That is the nature of man.

"Liberalism and capitalism that have alienated human beings from heavenly and moral values will never bring happiness for humanity because they are the main source of all misfortune wars, poverty and deprivation."

That's a swipe both ways. Because there is only one modern way to root out human problems.

"All problems existing in our world today emanate from the fact that rulers have distanced themselves from human values, morality and the teachings of divine messengers."

The only clear path to good government is Islam.

"occupation is introduced as a gift towards promotion of freedom and democracy, and defenseless nations are subjected to repression in the name of defending human rights."

Things like freedom, equality of men and women, are terrible burdens and are contrary to the Islamic belief of what your rights as a human are.

Indeed you can specifically see this is what he means without my help right here....

"Today we must rise together in a collective commitment against the present challenges; we must take change seriously and help others through collective work to return to the basic moral and human values. Messengers were sent by God to show the light of the truth to human kind, they came to make people aware of their individual and social obligations. Piety, having faith to Allah and its judgment of human behavior or conduct in the next world, belief in the primacy of justice in both lives, seeking one’s happiness, well being and security in the happiness, well-being and security of others, respecting human kind, making efforts to expand love and compassion against hostility were all on top of the teachings offered by the Messengers of God from Adam to Noah, from Noah to Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ and the last one Prophet Muhammad (PUH)."

Now remember, justice, peace and your individual and social obligations are all defined for you in the Koran. Your happiness stems from submission to this.

When everyone submits, everything will be fine. See.....

"If the belief in Entezar( A waiting patiently for the Imam to return) will turn into a common and we join hands to achieve prosperity for all, then there will be more real and increasing hopes for reform."

"We announce our commitment to participate in the process of building a durable peace and security worldwide for all nations based on justice, spirituality and human dignity, while being dedicated to strongly defending our legitimate and legal rights."

Iran commits to participate in the process of building a durable submission to God, based on justice - putting people into their rightful and balance place as defined by the teachings of Muhammad. All legal rights stem from Shar'ia, which is the legitimate and legal rights as defined by Islam.

"To materialize these goals, our nation is prepared to warmly shake all those hands which are honestly extended to us. No nation can claim to be free from the need to change and reform in this journey towards perfectness."

Human perfectness is achieved through submission to Allah.

"Therefore, we emphasize that: The only path to remain safe is to return to Monotheism (believing in the Oneness of God) and justice, and this is the greatest hope and opportunity in all ages and generations."

There is only one path. The belief in the Oneness of God that is Allah. Justice is the pursuit of putting people into their assigned and rightful place as defined by the Koran and Shar'ia. This is the greatest hope and opportunity for everyone everywhere.

"Without belief in God and commitment to the cause of justice and fight against injustice and discrimination, the world architect would not get right."

You cannot run the World without committing to Allah.

"The divine religions pay attention to all aspects of human life, including obedience to God, morality, justice, fighting oppression, and endeavor to establish just and good governance. Prophet Abraham called for Oneness of God against Nimrod, as Prophet Moses did the same against Pharaohs and the Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon them) did against the oppressors of their own time. They were all threatened to death and were forced out of their homelands. Without resistance and objection, the injustices would not be removed from the face of the earth."

He just said that the USA, NATO, and the Western nations are like the empire of Nimrod. He has likened himself and his cause to that of Moses, or Jesus and Muhammad.

"The world is in continuous change and evolution. The promised destiny for the mankind is the establishment of the humane pure life. Will come a time when justice will prevail across the globe and every single human being will enjoy respect and dignity."

We are going to displace you, and bring about the time when everyone knows their place under Allah.

"These will all come true under the rule of......Hazrat Mahdi..."

Universal peace will come when all bow to the new Prophet of Allah.

"Dear friends,
In waiting for that brilliant time to come and in a collective commitment, let’s make due contributions in paving the grounds and preparing the conditions for building that bright future."

We and everyone who allies with us needs to pave the way for the Universal adoption of Islam to assure World peace.


Bet that when you read this with a different set of cultural glasses on this doesn't say ANYTHING that you thought it did.

Originally posted by RogerT

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by vox2442

 

* In this country, people are free to speak their minds and protest without fear of the government killing them. In Iran you cannot say the same.

Man, that's one of the most naieve statements I've seen yet on ATS.

Would you like a list of names of people who would disagree if they were still alive to do so?

The U.S. Constitution, first Amendment says "yes, I would like to see a list of those names". I say you are full of BS. Prove it!

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by wazthewazzock

 

and i think i found plenty of love 200 years ago when thousands of africans were made as slaves, beaten, whipped, raped and killed in exchange of making America the richest country in the world with not having to pay the workers.

or the time when over 100,000 innocent civilians were killed in a single war.

or how about the only country to ever drop the worlds most deadliest weapon, yet still preach about not having them.

I can say the same to you my friend.

You're talking about ancient history and I'm pointing out the policies of Iran TODAY. Big difference.

People walked out and why?
They didnt like what they heard,
they already have impressions on what he is;
a terrorist, a mad man, a dictator.

And he is a mad man. Based upon his actions TODAY.

If you sit and listen to his ravings, then you are giving tacit approval to the murders he commits in Iran.

Im talking about whats happened in the past 30 years.
Not ancient history.