Mexico- A warzone.

I didn't know things had gotten this bad. I new there was violence but I saw a video of Iraq during a firefight and then saw this one and realized they sound the same. Automatic fire and then high caliber fire (maybe .50 caliber turret). Both Mexico and US should do something because like it or not this is all of our problem now.

www.youtube.com...

Actually the sad thing is, take Iraq, now turn it around, and make the Heavily armed, trained and highly motivated fighting against a very poorly equiped and semi trained.

And thats what its like almost every night, not to mention you have people running around who aren't violent who are just trying to make it to America.

it truly is sad. and its always either drugs or people.

reply to post by 3vilscript


I think that the govt. should put Marines on the border with orders to fire at anyone who tries to cross the border carrying weapons.

The drug lords and the slave trafficers have had their reign long enough on US citizens. Its time to lock them down in Mexico.

This is not new. It has been going on for some time, all drug related.

If US would decriminalize all drugs, this would end overnite.

Originally posted by OhZone
This is not new. It has been going on for some time, all drug related.

If US would decriminalize all drugs, this would end overnite.

I don't know if this is completely accurate. Do you think a drug lord is going to be happy about legalized drugs? What will he sell then?

If someone said to you they were going to remove your source of income, how would you respond?

The chemicals aren't really the problem. The illegality of the chemicals isn't really the problem. someone really wants you to believe that though. I think you have to look just a little deeper.

It's money.

If they can't sell the drugs, a ruthless, criminally minded individual will find SOMETHING to make a profit off of. They don't want to work at Burger King. The PROFITS just aren't there.

Legalize the drugs and you MIGHT get really fortunate and cure a symptom of a greater plague.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by KSPigpen]

I would point out that the US is a part of this issue, not a victim of it. The drugs and money are both flowing here, because we are the primary buyers and users... The illegal drug use/issues need to be addressed on THIS side, as well as in Mexico. We are a part of this problem and a contributing reason of it. We are supplying the guns, the money and the incentive.

See Anderson Cooper interview w/Drug Cartel Member as interesting side note.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

ETA: to fix links



[edit on 23-9-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by KSPigpen


What would happen in the case of legalization of all drugs is these same criminals would use their criminal empires to move onto more dangerous options, such as armed robbery, kidnapping, extortion, arms dealing, hijacking, contract killing, etc. Some may even go into politics. And the last thing needed is more criminals in government.

Legalizing natural drugs like marijuana or mushrooms or khat or coca(leaf only) will allow anyone to grow enough in their backyard or on their patio to supply themselves and their friends for the year. Prices will go through the floor. The cartels will move their emphasis to chemically processed drugs, such as Meth, X, PCP, Heroin, and Cocaine HCl. They will still exist and trade will continue.

Decriminalization for possession will only serve to increase consumption in the short term, as it will be a fine instead of jail time for simple possession and use. If applied to the whole spectrum of drugs, this equates to a short term increase in traffic for the cartels, only serving to fuel the fire. Long term results are a coin flip. Could go either way.

Either way, drugs are a commodity. If the market drops in the US, they will move their product to a new market, start prices off low to get the market interested and cornered, then slowly raise prices to make their money.


There is no single solution to the problem. Look down the road at the millions of cartel members who will be unemployed. You have to consider a calculated strike on the cartels with near simultaneous changes in drug laws worldwide.

Note: I may not be 100% accurate with the above predictions, but I'm sure I'm close.

Instead of focusing on how messed up it all is, what if we redirect this thread with a question?

What is the best and most realistic course of action for this problem?

We know that both sides are to blame. Both governments, the people, the cartels. What can be done?

What better place to come up with a solution, than a forum full of intellectual people?

reply to post by 3vilscript


I just wanted to make mention how distorted the US GOVT. MSM actually is. I am in Mexico at present. The tensions are only in a few border towns, but absolutely go across into the USA. In fact, the US Govt. is absolutely 100% responsible for all the turmoil on the border whether it's in the USA, or Mexico.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The link is to a thread I did, and it exposes how ICE, and other govt. agencies have been providing income, and expensive homes to supposed informants, but the US Govt. knows the informants are still active in the gangs....... In fact many times they are high ranking members.

It is causing local law enforcement on the USA side of the border is having to lie in order to get the information about the informants who are continually protected by DEA/ICE/FBI.

It's a frickin joke as usual perpetrated not only on US Americans, but also the People of Mexico. Again, I am here, and all is safe!

S&F to bring awareness.

So far everyone forgot US law enforcement who make their money ripping off the drug dealers. As long as drugs are a source of income for the government nothing will be done to make drugs legal or to stop drugs from coming across the border.

Incredible as it sounds, civil asset forfeiture laws allow the government to seize property without charging anyone with a crime....

Under civil asset forfeiture laws, the simple possession of cash, with no drugs or other contraband, can be considered evidence of criminal activity.

"Even if you're a law-abiding citizen who's never been convicted of a crime, local police are allowed to confiscate your property and money and keep up to 80 percent of it for themselves...

Eighty percent of property forfeited to the US during the previous decade was seized from owners who were never even charged with a crime! Over $7 billion has been forfeited to the federal government since 1985....

Drug Enforcement's Double-Edged Sword: An Assessment of Asset Forfeiture Programs described forfeiture as a "dysfunctional policy" that forces law enforcement agencies to subordinate justice to profit.

The Double-Edged Sword undercover researcher observed agencies abandon investigations of suspects they knew were trafficking large amounts of contraband simply because the case was not profitable....

..the narcotics units studied preferred seizing cash intended for purchase of drugs supplied by the police, rather than confiscating drugs already on the street. When asked why a search warrant would not be served on a suspect known to have resale quantities of contraband, one officer responded:

"Because that would just give us a bunch of dope and the hassle of having to book him (the suspect). We've got all the dope we need in the property room, just stick to rounding up cases with big money and stay away from warrants."
www.fear.org...

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yes, Your correct everyone save You, and I.

Read the article in my thread. The bastards in US Govt. are sponsoring the terror.

Parading top level cartel members around with impunity by calling them informants

This can absolutely be classified as terrorism, and US Govt. Agents are directly responsible, and involved.

Maybe We should ship them off to Guantanemo????

3vilscript

Good question... [assuming that legalization is not on the table]

*MASSIVE drug awareness campaign on the level or higher than that of anti-tobacco

*Funding for Mental Health facilities such that they are able to provide adequate help to those who want/need it and are not subject to continued outrageous budget eliminations

*Eliminating the "mystique" of drug use conversation so that it is being addressed in the homes [by parents] to kids very early in age, educate parents in ways to talk to kids about the choices/consequences

*Hate to say it [I'm gonna get creamed, I know this] but something MUST be done about the flow of weapons from US to Mexico

Of course, this is only addressing US side of the issue, an address of the Mexican responsibilities would also be necessary. This is one issue that the US cannot solve on its own.

ETA:
I have to say that this is not representative of the whole of Mexico either.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by digger2381
reply to post by KSPigpen

 

What would happen in the case of legalization of all drugs is these same criminals would use their criminal empires to move onto more dangerous options, such as armed robbery, kidnapping, extortion, arms dealing, hijacking, contract killing, etc. Some may even go into politics. And the last thing needed is more criminals in government.

They are in politics.
As to your other suggestion there.....you are making up things.

Don't you think that if we can assassinate world leaders that a few "drug lords" would be no problem? We could likely clean out the whole nest of varmints with minimal effort. If the so-called "war on drugs" was serious it would have been over a long time ago.
The whole war machine could stand to have some education on how to fight a war to win.

Originally posted by OhZone

They are in politics.
As to your other suggestion there.....you are making up things.

Don't you think that if we can assassinate world leaders that a few "drug lords" would be no problem? We could likely clean out the whole nest of varmints with minimal effort. If the so-called "war on drugs" was serious it would have been over a long time ago.
The whole war machine could stand to have some education on how to fight a war to win.

Oh I know we are not handling the "war on drugs" seriously. My point is there will always be a demand, therefore there will always be suppliers. Short of killing everyone who has ever profited from drugs, everyone who has ever had a positive experience under the influence, and everyone who has heard about somebody having a positive experience under the influence, you will not be able to end the "problem" (for lack of a better word).


You would also have to destroy all the seeds and eradicate all the plants, because somebody will eventually try them and the whole cycle will start over again. And that's just the natural side of things. If this did happen, you would still have to deal with the people popping pharmaceuticals.


I mean there are kids are taking nutmeg from their moms' baking supplies just to get high these days. They're ordering morning glory seeds online to ingest and get high. It is natural for humans to alter their state of being.

Smokers, drinkers, pill poppers, stoners, shroomers, geekers, etc... will continue to exist and will continue to attempt to alter their state of being. And where there is a demand, there is a market, and there is always a shrewd businessman looking to make a buck.


ETA: Please elaborate on how I am making things up.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by digger2381]

You know large part of the matter of this Mexico situation is that the US drug markets are drying up with the down economy so with profits down the cartels are fighting over the dwindling market. Desperate people do crazy things.

9 out of 10 people in Mexico are corruptable? Either this guy is lying or Mexico is a lost cause.

reply to post by digger2381


And there are people that HAVE NEVER "altered" their reality through drugs, people like ME! I don't even drink anymore. I don't want to live with druggies and people that justify the use of drugs and I don't want my kids to be raised in that environment either. So the druggies can go live in their little cities and us antidruggies and anti how did you put it? reality alterers? Will go live in our little cities and may the strongest, bravest, toughest survive!!!!!!!!!! That's a violent fight worth fighting for. Because that's what it's gonna come down to in this world. Good, healthy, moral, people are going to have start resorting to violence to clean this world up. Sounds like an oxymoron and it might fly in the face of Dr. King. but he's dead and times have gotten worse. So much for his theories!

We wanna get these drug cartel guys we do like the Russians. They take one of our family members we take five of theirs. Eye for an eye. If my neighbor hurt my kid or wife I'd put the hurt on him ten times over. Why do you think the US has ten times the nuclear capability of the rest of the world. VIOLENCE SOLVES PROBLEMS! You don't talk yourself out of being bullied. You punch the bully square in his nose. It's time Americans, those good non drug abusing Americans stand up and punch these drug cartels in their nose. Obviously Mexicans are bought and paid for so their not going to do it. Leave it to America again to police the world and other countries.

Drug cartels wouldn't have anyone to sell to, if Americans weren't buying. We are the problem, a big part of it anyway, perhaps we should address it HERE first. At the very least, recognize our own culpability. Blame shifting, placing all of it on Mexico is deflection, and not representative of the entire picture. Just sayin'



[edit on 23-9-2009 by LadySkadi]

Do you guys remember when that plane carrying a few tons of coc aine went down in the Yucatan?

The plane turned out to be previously identified by the New York Times as being used to transport "terror suspects" to foreign states for torture.

Obviously implication: CIA = Cocaine Import Agency.

I think we need a full investigation of what they've been up to down there for the last 50+ years.

I mean, face it folks - that drug demand is us. It's our fault, not the poor people of Mexico.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


Well if the "druggies" as you put it, are in their own city and the "non-druggies" are in theirs, why do you feel that there is a need for violence against those who choose to partake? What ever happened to personal freedoms and personal liberties?

Oh, and the druggies get all those who drink and smoke, as well as all the illegal drug users, and all the coffee drinkers and caffeinated soda drinkers as well.

And what of the people who would rather relax with a joint than a martini? What gives you the right to tell them how they can be intoxicated? That type of mentality will never do any good in this world.


Furthermore, you are way off mark by calling for their families to be killed. That type of violence will only beget more violence. Violence against innocents is not justified. You can't claim a moral high ground if you are stooping five times as low.

I support the surgical use of overwhelming force against the cartels. They are the mafia of today. They rule through fear and intimidation, which has no place in civilized society. But you have to observe objectively and see that the only reason they have the power is because they have been given it, just as Capone was given the power in the 20s and 30s.

Identify, locate, execute. Top to bottom. But only on cartel members and associates(CIA, DEA, etc included), not their kids, not their wives.

By killing their families, you are falling into what we call a Social Trap, where your passion for short term results ends in long term failure, because you lack the foresight to anticipate the reaction.

Just like you, they will kill a disproportionate number of innocents, which only serves to add to an exponential death toll of innocent people. They kill one person. You kill ten of their family. They kill 100 innocents. It is a game that never stops.