There is NO heaven OR Hell.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma

 

lol, if that's the case I suppose so.

If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.

The Jewish view is fairly simple really. Whether superstitious or not, the afterlife is not our focus. We don't believe in hell other than what we are creating here on earth as mankind. The concept of heaven, I would agree with Jesus in his esoteric view, as do most Jews. It is an inner state of peace. Then, of course, it is important to contribute to heaven here on earth by trying to shed light to those still in the dark (ignorance).

As far as what our Scriptures teach about afterlife, there is none (not that we know of anyway .... and why pretend that we do?). Ecclesiastes 3:19,20; Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalm 146:3,4 ... we all die and we all go to the same place: the grave; Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic .. it doesn't matter what you subscribe to while on earth in light of death. It only matters, thus the importance, for the generations that follow. The here and now is where we are and so why focus on what we can't know .. that is what comes with death .... most likely it is nothing.

It is true that when we die, we all go the same place---into the spirit realm and on to our next lives. So it sounds like they didn't want you all to know you reincarnate either. I wonder why? Obviously there was some reason. I haven't thought about that before, so let me see what comes down the pike so to speak, now that I have asked that question.

But clearly, keeping you all focused on the here and now would limit your ability or desire to explore the psychic/spiritual realm, and keep you from seeing how they were abusing you with their nefarious schemes as well. And it would keep you behaving more productively since now is all you have so you better do what you got to do before the sun sets, eh?

It sounds like it makes you all focus very intensely on training the next generation properly so that they will carry on the 'religious' traditions (aka the ability to be successfully manipulated by the NWO bunch) as required.

I will respond more later perhaps, as more information comes thru to me. Sorry!

[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

reply to post by DragonriderGal


There are some who believe in reincarnation. It sounds to me like you just want others to believe you *know.* Anyone who does is as ignorant as the next person who claims that all those who don't believe in a demigod are going to hell.

We don't concentrate on the "afterlife" because what we create today will be the effects tomorrow that our children will have to deal with. Even if reincarnation were proved to be true, then what we cause today will be the effects YOU will have to deal with tomorrow. Either way, we are right in that today is what we are given and today is where we should focus.



[edit on 3-10-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by the siren
reply to post by justamomma

 

lol, if that's the case I suppose so.

If the OP doesn't mind a slight deviation (seeing as this a discussion on heaven and hell I imagine it wouldn't be too off topic) could you please tell us more of the Jewish beliefs of heaven, hell & paradise - otherwise you could start a new thread.

Hum.. I don't really know the jewish dogma that well. And it isn't something I care to investigate. Your ex-high priests spun that for you all from waaaaay back when.
And actually, what I see is that the NWO bunch have used and abused your people since before there even was written history. If I would you, I would reaaaaaalllllllllly hate the illuminati aka NWO bunch with a passion.

For example, when Jerusalem fell in 60 AD or so, they basically abandoned you all to your fate and headed off to Europe, although they aren't above still using you when they can, like in the holocaust, for example. They are really evil, that bunch.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Of course you don't want to know. Then it could burst your little fantasy here that you have a clue of what you are speaking of. Clearly you do not.

By the way, the Romans set fire to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And we, as a People, are back in our land. You sound a bit threatened to know anything of our People or our history. Would that be due to jealousy?

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
So essentially what I am saying is if you really think Heaven and Hell are real, Open your eyes!

And allow me to say...with a diferent point of view...You sir, open your eyes, and see better where you live!
I don't know nothing about the Even, but IMO where we live is a perfect Hell!!
Sadly the human race have envolved and especialized in selfish ways where we just avoid or ignore "the evilness" that every day happens next door, or some where else.
We all here present, as the humanity itself allow every day that horrendous acts of evil can be executed every where. because we all hidde behind several personal excuses like..."It's not my problem...; I am impotent to do what ever...; Etc.
And the world still spinning in a ocean of evilness every day, growing & growing! Untill some day we all will perish drawned in a flood of it.
Maybe that day something can really be learned by Humans!!

[edit on 3/10/09 by Umbra Sideralis]

Thank you for sharing your differing perspective.

And other than I am Dragonrider GAL, my eyes are open plenty as is my awareness to the spirit realm and the racial/collective unconscious. And like so many philosophers and people with more esoteric understanding and also those of us with many years of personal growth work under our belts know, the world is what you believe it to be. If you are living in 'hell' then it is up to you to fix that, eh?

But yes, this world is a training ground for spiritual betterment, and part of that kind of training always requires learning to deal with and buy out of participation in the ways of sometimes overpowering 'dark' type stuff. If it were all light and fluffy, we'd never have been ready to make full enlightenment in this cycle. But thanks to all that training with live fire, a lot of us will be.

So, if you consider this a classroom with the NWO bunch as our teachers, it isn't hell at all. It can be hellish sometimes, but overall we humans have been steadily moving upward in our spiritual journeys. It is just the NWO bunch increasing the pressure that has made it seem like things are going to hell in a handbasket. They are the root of the problem and that is why we humans have them here. To set the bad example none of us should want to aspire to, and to keep us from getting too comfy that we stop making upward progress.

And ultimately we can only heal ourselves. So wasting time trying to 'rescue' people or countries or whales or whatever is just spinning your wheels and most likely having those who you are trying to 'save' hate you for it. The focus has to be on healing yourself, and really as I have noted previously, heal yourself and heal the world. It is the ONLY way that works and the only way to make full enlightenment.



[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by DragonriderGal

 

There are some who believe in reincarnation. It sounds to me like you just want others to believe you *know.* Anyone who does is as ignorant as the next person who claims that all those who don't believe in a demigod are going to hell.

We don't concentrate on the "afterlife" because what we create today will be the effects tomorrow that our children will have to deal with. Even if reincarnation were proved to be true, then what we cause today will be the effects YOU will have to deal with tomorrow. Either way, we are right in that today is what we are given and today is where we should focus.

If I didn't clearly remember many of my past lives, perhaps I would be less certain, but since I do, I stand pretty firm on my awareness that we all reincarnate. *shrug*

I actually don't care much if others believe me or not; all I am mentioning this for is so that others, if they choose, can start investigating this idea on a higher spiritual level of awareness, and maybe break thru to the spirit realm as well, and an awareness of their own past lives. It has done much to help me understand myself and why I was making the choices I made.

So it kinda sounds like to me that you want us to believe you, over me, since you brought the issue up, not I, eh?

I say live as you will and believe what you will. My only stipulation would be that you believe what you will, not what you think you must because somebody told you you had to or you would have bad things happen, like Hell, for example; that you are truly the master of your own ship not the slave of some ancient and social control tool made to order to manipulate and control your people to do the will of the NWO bunch.

Pretty simple really. And yes, focus on today and healing yourself, but don't forget the past where you learned your lessons, nor the future to focus on what you want to see (manifest) versus just letting the NWO have their way.

Ah.. that last just came thru. That is the whole focus of the 'here and now' thing. That way YOU won't be manifesting counter to what the NWO wants to see happen. No wonder it is in a lot of the 'religions' of the world, including some of the new age blatherngs. Huh. Cool!

Originally posted by justamomma

Of course you don't want to know. Then it could burst your little fantasy here that you have a clue of what you are speaking of. Clearly you do not.

By the way, the Romans set fire to Jerusalem in 70 AD. And we, as a People, are back in our land. You sound a bit threatened to know anything of our People or our history. Would that be due to jealousy?

Like I said 60 AD or so...... 70 AD is pretty close, close enough for me anyway, when we are talking 2,000 years.

Well good for you all. Even though your ex high priests used America to get you back there. *rolls eyes*

I know enough about you all's history. That is in the racial/collective unconscious. I just don't care enough to try to dig out the memories of people who studied your dogma out to see what they 'knew' about your dogma.

And no. Not jealous at all. I actually feel kind of sorry for you guys. You are the original spun humans; their manipulation of you is so accepted and entrenched that a lot of you follow along like blind unquestioning sheep. Quite sad, really.

Now is probably the first time ever, your people are actually able to start thinking for yourselves, since the whitewashing of the Jews after WWII actually has made a lot of you less attached to your historical 'roots'. That line---"Oh those poor abused jewish people! They really aren't any different than the rest of humanity!"---was used to get their flunkies in the door of world governments, but it also got flipped around and now the jewish people don't think they are any different than the rest of humanity either.

As a consequence they are not feeling as persecuted on a whole sale level like they used to and so they are spreading out into the gentile world and getting involved there.

And actually learning to question what they were taught, as a lot of the rest of us 'gentiles' have started doing, versus just let their rabbi's and elders bully them into compliance. At least that is what I am seeing from this side of the fence.


[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Like I said 60AD or so...... 70AD is pretty close, close enough for me anyway, when we are talking 2,000 years.

Given your claims of memory, it seems you should know these things.

Well good for you all. Even though your ex high priests used America to get you back there. *rolls eyes*

I know enough about you all's history. That is in the racial/collective unconscious. I just don't care enough to try to dig out the memories of people who studied your dogma out to see what they 'knew' about your dogma.

And no. Not jealous at all.

Of course you aren't.

Originally posted by justamomma
Given your claims of memory, it seems you should know these things.

My connection to the racial/collective unconscious is from my left brain, to my right brain thu my unconscious into the racial unconscious. Left brain stuff gets lost pretty easy in that process.

Of course you aren't.

Nope. I would not want to have to walk the road you guys are going to. The elves are pretty pissed with the NWO bunch, and I don't think they are going to be all that merciful with any that are directly connected to them either, plus you all have had the thought police on your cases for millinia. Man, that woulda sucked!

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Considering how blind and deaf we are to the spirit realm, it isn't unusual (and trust me, the NWO bunch have really emphasized this uncertainty because it leaves us so lost and floundering) that no one feels they can be certain about what happens after death and all that. If you hook up to the racial unconscious in a conscious way, a lot of that confusion disappears. Now my interpretation of the information of course goes thru my own filters so there is always room for error, but in general, the whole past life thing is is pretty much a given, from all I see out there.

You make a good point, and I have definitely thought about that. I just wonder if we really can truly rid ourselves of the inherent bias that we have.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
My connection to the racial/collective unconscious is from my left brain, to my right brain thu my unconscious into the racial unconscious. Left brain stuff gets lost pretty easy in that process.

Not a valid defense for your claims ya know.

Nope. I would not want to have to walk the road you guys are going to. The elves are pretty pissed with the NWO bunch, and I don't think they are going to be all that merciful with any that are directly connected to them either, plus you all have had the thought police on your cases for millinia. Man, that woulda sucked!

No need to worry about us. We don't live in your fantasies. Thank you for taking the time to address my replies. I think I have learned enough to know this won't be going anywhere.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by the siren

To the OP, I suggest laying of the peyote

I guessing you meant lay OFF the peyote? Sorry but I don't do any kind of drugs other than an occasional Marguerite. This is all coming thru my connection to the racial unconscious.
But thanks for your concern.

Yes I meant 'off'. Mine was a typo but what's your excuse for this?:

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
I know enough about you all's history.

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Hum.. I don't really know the jewish dogma that well. And it isn't something I care to investigate.

I wouldn't dismiss Judaism so quickly because, if you believe in reincarnation, you might just come back as one.

reply to post by justamomma


Thanks for explaining your beliefs to me.

Originally posted by justamomma
I think I have learned enough to know this won't be going anywhere.

I concur

Originally posted by theartofzazen

Originally posted by DragonriderGal
Considering how blind and deaf we are to the spirit realm, it isn't unusual (and trust me, the NWO bunch have really emphasized this uncertainty because it leaves us so lost and floundering) that no one feels they can be certain about what happens after death and all that. If you hook up to the racial unconscious in a conscious way, a lot of that confusion disappears. Now my interpretation of the information of course goes thru my own filters so there is always room for error, but in general, the whole past life thing is is pretty much a given, from all I see out there.

You make a good point, and I have definitely thought about that. I just wonder if we really can truly rid ourselves of the inherent bias that we have.

The bias we have about not having past lives? Well, if the NWO and their flunkie religions aren't cramming mis-information down our throats it would be a lot easier to not feel so confused about it, for sure. And after 2012, they are outta here so it should be a LOT easier to not doubt then.

Originally posted by justamomma

Not a valid defense for your claims ya know.

In your opinion of course, but it isn't an invalid one either, from my perspective. I don't do memory stuff on my own that well anyway, consequently what I see in the racial/collective unconscious is all coming from there, not from my memory, because if this was something I was just making up, I would forget half of it, I am sure. *lol*

No need to worry about us. We don't live in your fantasies. Thank you for taking the time to address my replies. I think I have learned enough to know this won't be going anywhere.

I don't worry about you; feel a bit sorry for you maybe, but hey I am sure you will get thru whatever all right. Or not. It is gonna be your 'tribulation', not ours, so your road is a lot harder than the rest of humanity.

And really, where was there for this to go, anyway??? Clearly you are one of the enslaved. Nothing outside your box will sway you, and I know you think that is a good thing. *shrug*

[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by the siren
Yes I meant 'off'. Mine was a typo but what's your excuse for this?

There isn't a plural for 'you' in the english language. I just make do with what I can.

I wouldn't dismiss Judaism so quickly because, if you believe in reincarnation, you might just come back as one.

Nah, most of you are all going back to do it again so the option of reincarnating as a jew will be nearly nonexistent. Your people aren't going to make enlightenment much, I don't think because your 'religious' beliefs are far too limiting and constricting. Judaism is even better than most of the NWO's religious control constructs.

But hey, maybe next cycle thru time, some of you will choose more wisely and get as far away from the NWO bunch as you can, and really try to grow and heal instead of condemn the rest of humanity for being cattle, while you are so much above them, eh? It isn't true, and it was just one of the ways your ex-priests manipulated and controlled you.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Alright, I've got two more cents to add to the mix.

First off, to everyone who's been posting about how we live in a 'hell on earth' already, I'm afraid that even if you believe it is hell, it is the only outcome that could exist. Creatures, including man, are self-serving. The only reason we make the earth worse is because it makes the people doing so better. Men aren't evil. Killers don't kill because they WANT to do bad things, it's because their damaged psyche feels better when they do it. People follow religions because it makes them feel good. Man has emotional and mental needs, seperating us from most of the other creatures on earth, so they not only eat, drink, find shelter, and reproduce for their physical needs, they must also satisfy their emotional and mental needs. People who are in power feel good about the power they have, even if it pollutes or causes war. In the same fashion, people who protest these things want to feel good, and they feel good about protecting their home. Man is self-serving, and those in power are usually there by material means, which is more important to the average man than 'tree hug-feel good' means, therefore, the earth will be polluted and warred upon until we destroy ourselves. When that happens, I will neither cry nor laugh because it's the ONLY possible outcome of our existence. I will also neither cry nor laugh because I'll probably be dead, too.

Number two, specifically for dragonridergal, is on the subject of enlightenment. How, in the name of all that is sacred and holy*, can man be anywhere near enlightenment? For all of humanity to reach enlightenment, then surely by now I would have met even one person who I believed could reach an 'enlightened' status. To quote Henry Fonda in My Name is Nobody, "I've met all kinds in my life. Thieves and killers. Pimps and prostitutes. Con men and preachers. Even a few fellas that told the truth. The kind of man you're talking about, never." It would take thousands of years more, and I'm pretty sure we will destroy ourselves before that happens. This is assuming the NWO doesn't win this 'wager.'

*Sorry for the phrase, I figure you'll just laugh at 'sacred and holy,' but I figure that since words only have the power we give them, I'll use the phrases that intimate the feeling best.

Also, again, my perspective of assuming you are creating an interesting, theoretical fiction, I think you lose credibility attacking the Jews. Everyone attacks the Jews, it's not very original. I don't see why you would decided the Jews need to go around the block a few more times to get things right. You don't need to reply to this paragraph, because it is speaking solely from my skeptic side, and doesn't need to be defended against.

I make this reply again. There is a heaven and hell. God and Christ are coming. Life after death is a big gamble. And where you spend it is your choice.

Originally posted by smsjogren
People follow religions because it makes them feel good.

No.

Do you go to school to make yourself "feel good" or to learn? It's a different kind of learning due to different kinds of topics, but it's still learning.

Other than that, I agree with you.

I'll just add that it is only the so-called leaders that are destroying us. The regular people don't want war, pollution, etc. Only the worlds leaders want this.

I do feel good going to school. Learning things at school makes me feel smart, which makes me feel good about myself. Also, it makes me feel I will get a better job with which I will be able to provide for myself and family, making me feel good about my own self-value. This is the same reason I believe in the afterlife I want, because it makes me not really fear death, because peace will follow whether you've been naughty or nice for santa. This way, even if I mess up royally, I don't feel too bad because I don't think it will hurt me in the LONG, LONG run.

Also, I don't really believe the world leaders WANT pollution and war, they just believe those things may be the only means to get to the ends they want for themselves. This may be irrelevant to this discussion, but I'd just like to throw out there that the USA is kind of like christian missonaries, except they try to convert other countries into democratic republics like we've got.

Originally posted by smsjogren
Alright, I've got two more cents to add to the mix.
First off, to everyone who's been posting about how we live in a 'hell on earth' already, I'm afraid that even if you believe it is hell, it is the only outcome that could exist. Creatures, including man, are self-serving. The only reason we make the earth worse is because it makes the people doing so better. Men aren't evil. Killers don't kill because they WANT to do bad things, it's because their damaged psyche feels better when they do it.

And self serving as long as it is in their best interests, their highest good, is a great thing! I call it enlightened self-interest. And it is true that most who do bad things usually have had bad things happen to them so there is that sense of destructive entitlement at work. And karma. If you were killed in the last life, to balance that out there might be some need to 'kill' in the next. *shrug* Our lessons are many, and who knows what lessons someone else is here to learn. Heck, it is hard enough to know what lessons we are here to learn!

People follow religions because it makes them feel good. Man has emotional and mental needs, seperating us from most of the other creatures on earth, so they not only eat, drink, find shelter, and reproduce for their physical needs, they must also satisfy their emotional and mental needs.

People need religion because we are so blocked to the spirit realm and the racial/collective unconscious that we are hard pressed to 'know' what is naturally a part of what ever other alien species knows about themselves at a spirit level. And we should be able to also, except for what the greys did to block it.

People who are in power feel good about the power they have, even if it pollutes or causes war. In the same fashion, people who protest these things want to feel good, and they feel good about protecting their home. Man is self-serving, and those in power are usually there by material means, which is more important to the average man than 'tree hug-feel good' means, therefore, the earth will be polluted and warred upon until we destroy ourselves. When that happens, I will neither cry nor laugh because it's the ONLY possible outcome of our existence. I will also neither cry nor laugh because I'll probably be dead, too.

And no, the elves won't let the earth be destroyed. They spent way too much time making it into the lovely place it was. And once we hit full enlightenment, and the NWO is sent back in time to do this whole 'training exercise with live fire' again, you are going to see a muchly improved human race. So much of it really is their bad influence.

Number two, specifically for dragonridergal, is on the subject of enlightenment. How, in the name of all that is sacred and holy*, can man be anywhere near enlightenment? For all of humanity to reach enlightenment, then surely by now I would have met even one person who I believed could reach an 'enlightened' status. To quote Henry Fonda in My Name is Nobody, "I've met all kinds in my life. Thieves and killers. Pimps and prostitutes. Con men and preachers. Even a few fellas that told the truth. The kind of man you're talking about, never." It would take thousands of years more, and I'm pretty sure we will destroy ourselves before that happens. This is assuming the NWO doesn't win this 'wager.'

Well, that is surely what the NWO wants you to believe. Remember who is in charge of the media, and what it does and DOESN'T tell us. Don't think for even a minute that they are going to let us know how well we are coming along. But that we have as many freedoms as we do, and they are so desperate, should tell you something. There are a LOT more people out there doing this stuff but probably don't want to discuss it for fear of being sold out if the NWO manages to get some of it's human population reduction plans in place, like the FEMA camps for example.

I say, stick to your guns. Keep manifesting the world you WANT to see, and not let the NWO trick you into believing their line of 'horrible' 'oh mankind is such a bunch of evil doers' reality crap.

*Sorry for the phrase, I figure you'll just laugh at 'sacred and holy,' but I figure that since words only have the power we give them, I'll use the phrases that intimate the feeling best.

Also, again, my perspective of assuming you are creating an interesting, theoretical fiction, I think you lose credibility attacking the Jews. Everyone attacks the Jews, it's not very original. I don't see why you would decided the Jews need to go around the block a few more times to get things right. You don't need to reply to this paragraph, because it is speaking solely from my skeptic side, and doesn't need to be defended against.

Actually, I am not attacking the jews. I am saying what I see both in what is going on today and what was going on before WWII. *shrug* I do feel sorry for them. It is their time of 'tribulation'; the elves are the archangels, and they are soooooo not fond of the NWO bunch and those who have served them willingly for so long and are quite looking forward to digging them out of their hidey holes and sending them back in time.

The reason the overarching sentience made the contract with the NWO bunch and their flunkies is because it knew that these beings will be very slow to figure out what they are doing wrong in how they deal with us, and that we could probably get 10 or 11 cycles of training with live fire out of them before they even start getting a clue. They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, eh? Arrogance and stupidity isn't a good combination.

I think we are so close to making enlightenment, I can almost taste it. So don't buy into the melodrama of how 'horrible' humanity is. Know that it is the NWO bunch and their flunkies that are horrible, and it is they who will be paying for that very bad behavior over 300,000 years from their backlash of karma (with the help of the elves of course!) aka the 'tribulation' of the bible. We humans just need to make sure to manifest personal safety for ourselves and the ones we love, and for our homes and such, and also make sure we aren't standing too close to a NWO flunkie. *lol*

[edit on 5-10-2009 by DragonriderGal]