There is NO heaven OR Hell.

So god put humans on satans world.... how logical. Mabey the metaphor in the bible is actually stating satan is king of the earth, meaning all the war and poverty and hatefulness. Also what god would put a kid in africa,(Somalia for example) with no way of communicating with the outside world(that has no idea who/what jesus is)??? What about a person with no violent past, but the only thing is they dont believe in jesus(becasue there are so many religions)?? They donate to charity, help in humantarian programs. Even walks old Mrs, Williams across the sidewalk. Would they go to hell?? And if i live my life the best i can but dont believe in jesus, I would want to talk face to face with "god" and ask him what the **** is up with his cruel, sadistic take on reality.

Why wouldn't you believe in a religion that promotes peace?? Instead of fear?? Yeah sure the bible says Heaven is great this and that, but what about all the if you dont do this you go to hell for enternity. Even though the creator would know the mindframe a human has becasue we are "supposivley" made in his image. So why would a creator make us for the sole purpose to go to hell?? If he is omnipotent and so powerful why would he make all of us?? Are we some cruel sick experiment??? I perfer the buddhist religion or just a universal consciousness point of view. Much more easier on the mind

[edit on 26-9-2009 by Maddogkull]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty


The Bible is very accurate in that satan is the king of this "world".

For now.

No, Satan works for the NWO, who want to believe they are kings of this world. Which they aren't, either. So, once again, the bible is meant to lead you astray from the reality of what is really up. Spinning spinning.... *shakes head*

One thing about humanity, given our quite assorted spirit origins, is that nobody will be king of the world, because too many different belief systems are held by the different ex-alien spirits to allow for any kind of consensus. Ex-elves will not agree with a government system that the ex-blues want, nor would the ex-greys agree with either one of those others, and so on.

So until we hit enlightenment, you can count on a lot of different 'kings' of the world. And forget about world peace. Never is gonna happen until we all realize what we instinctively hold as 'true' values are really just spirit prejudices from our spirit origins alien species.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by Maddogkull
So god put humans on satans world.... how logical. Mabey the metaphor in the bible is actually stating satan is king of the earth, meaning all the war and poverty and hatefulness. Also what god would put a kid in africa,(Somalia for example) with no way of communicating with the outside world(that has no idea who/what jesus is)??? What about a person with no violent past, but the only thing is they dont believe in jesus(becasue there are so many religions)?? They donate to charity, help in humantarian programs. Even walks old Mrs, Williams across the sidewalk. Would they go to hell?? And if i live my life the best i can but dont believe in jesus, I would want to talk face to face with "god" and ask him what the **** is up with his cruel, sadistic take on reality.

Why wouldn't you believe in a religion that promotes peace?? Instead of fear?? Yeah sure the bible says Heaven is great this and that, but what about all the if you dont do this you go to hell for enternity. Even though the creator would know the mindframe a human has becasue we are "supposivley" made in his image. So why would a creator make us for the sole purpose to go to hell?? If he is omnipotent and so powerful why would he make all of us?? Are we some cruel sick experiment??? I perfer the buddhist religion or just a universal consciousness point of view. Much more easier on the mind

[edit on 26-9-2009 by Maddogkull]

Well, considering the 'god' of the old testament was created by the NWO to try to keep their people in line, it figures they could be a LOT meaner to them. And those were rules for the Jewish people, not us. Just as the tribulation is going to be for the NWO bunch and their flunkies, not us. We just got to make sure we keep out of the way.

Hats off to the OP. Lots of interesting and well written stuff here.
You obviously have a deep belief in what you say.

Just one question.

What if you are wrong?

Originally posted by badgerprints
Hats off to the OP. Lots of interesting and well written stuff here.
You obviously have a deep belief in what you say.

Just one question.

What if you are wrong?

Thanks for the kind words. From all that I see in the racial/collective unconscious, I am quite sure I am receiving a far more accurate version of how things went down than the BS the bible purports to have happened.

Certianly I could be wrong on some details of my interpretations of information that I see, but the overall picture is quite clear.

From where I sit now, when you ask me what if I am wrong about the heaven/hell issue, it is almost like you asking me what if I'm wrong about Star Wars being science-fiction. It is so obvious, it almost is laughable. *shrug*

But hey, I have been digging myself out of that NWO spun version of lies for over 20 years now, so maybe the actual version of history I see is more easily accepted because I have doubted the NWO version for so long.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Star wars isen't fiction, didn't you read the begining of the movie. It takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Star wars isen't fiction, didn't you read the begining of the movie. It takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far far away

Well, now if it said that in the bible, I guess I would have to believe it, eh? *lol*

This is a great thread Gal!!! A lot of these things needed to be expanded upon, and I am glad you brought this into the open.

There is a lot of programmed and conditioned responses coming out from many people in this thread, which I think is a positive thing in the end, and perhaps can give people a chance to create a space between their programming and who they really are. But at the same time it is also a little distressing to see people who genuinely believe they are that conditioning, and thats all they know who to associate with. A chance for growth and expansion in the end though.
At some point people have to realize how they are projecting their responsiblity externally onto something else, which dis-empowers you. All it does at best is slow down your personal evolution. We're all heading towards the same place just at different speeds. At least we have that choice, but many do not even realize they have the choice.. that is another issue however.

Why is it that many people who dress themselves in the clothes of christ are some of the most judgemental people you will meet? It's evidenced well in this thread. That is the control. Break the cycle, be free. You are dictating how people should live and what to believe. Again, that is control, that is dis-empowerment. Like I mentioned before, it serves as wonderful learning and teaching tool, it is not a thing of right or wrong.

There isn't much else I could add to this thread that what already has been. You've done a masterful job and exploring these things and sharing it with us. All I can say is that we have to remove ourselves from the equation the Regressive NWO Group is counting on us to remain in. We have to change the rules, change how it works, or they will do it for us.

Be In Peace.

There is heaven and Hell and when you fight out that all of revelations is coming to pass in front of you, will you believe or will you ignore the facts in front of you. God is watching. Life after death is a big gamble.

Originally posted by slymattb
There is heaven and Hell and when you fight out that all of revelations is coming to pass in front of you, will you believe or will you ignore the facts in front of you. God is watching. Life after death is a big gamble.

Oh yah, that is so what the NWO bunch want you to believe and be afraid to believe any different. Spinning, spinning. Looks like they got another guppy on the line. Hey but your choice to believe that nonsense, just as it is mine to believe the NWO wrote all this crap, with just this kind of results desired.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by Asmus
This is a great thread Gal!!! A lot of these things needed to be expanded upon, and I am glad you brought this into the open.

There is a lot of programmed and conditioned responses coming out from many people in this thread, which I think is a positive thing in the end, and perhaps can give people a chance to create a space between their programming and who they really are. But at the same time it is also a little distressing to see people who genuinely believe they are that conditioning, and thats all they know who to associate with. A chance for growth and expansion in the end though.
At some point people have to realize how they are projecting their responsiblity externally onto something else, which dis-empowers you. All it does at best is slow down your personal evolution. We're all heading towards the same place just at different speeds. At least we have that choice, but many do not even realize they have the choice.. that is another issue however.

Why is it that many people who dress themselves in the clothes of christ are some of the most judgemental people you will meet? It's evidenced well in this thread. That is the control. Break the cycle, be free. You are dictating how people should live and what to believe. Again, that is control, that is dis-empowerment. Like I mentioned before, it serves as wonderful learning and teaching tool, it is not a thing of right or wrong.

There isn't much else I could add to this thread that what already has been. You've done a masterful job and exploring these things and sharing it with us. All I can say is that we have to remove ourselves from the equation the Regressive NWO Group is counting on us to remain in. We have to change the rules, change how it works, or they will do it for us.

Be In Peace.

Thanks muchly, Asmus! I always so appreciate finding like minded folk! It just seems kinda necessary to bring this information out, because people so live their lives in fear and anguish about dying and what will happen to them. If I can ease that a little for anyone, then I consider it worth it.

For sure, the NWO so doesn't want us to think for ourselves because, gosh darn it, independent/free thinkers just don't make very good slaves! And that is all the end result of this will be if too many people buy their line of crap aka religion, and they can say they kept the contract, i.e. enslaved 80% of humanity.

If that happens, none of their karma will come due, and look forward to a speedy return to the dark ages (their glory days) and an exceedingly high fatality rate. They want to get rid of at least 50% of all humanity, but I am guessing they would take 80-90% if they could get it.

They really hate us. I mean, just because we have made them look like fools time after time across the ages isn't our fault. If they would stop being fools, we couldn't do it so easily and really without even trying that hard.


[edit on 28-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Well I can't say that I believe everything that the OP has to say, but I do agree that there is no heaven or hell, and that their concepts were created to control the minds of people.

As far as posts earlier stating things about fulfilled prophecies, I would like to see these. I have seen many many supposed prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus but all of them are very vague and many require quite a stretch of imagination in order to see there fulfillment.

As far as Jesus' life, and the accuracy of the bible are concerned that is ridiculous. The bible is so full of historical errors and contradictions that I don't even know where to start. Jesus is a made up character based on many other "Godmen" of the era, and cast in a Jewish light, plain and simple. If anyone would like to prove his existence to me using non religious sources I am all ears.

Originally posted by Majiq
Well I can't say that I believe everything that the OP has to say, but I do agree that there is no heaven or hell, and that their concepts were created to control the minds of people.

As far as posts earlier stating things about fulfilled prophecies, I would like to see these. I have seen many many supposed prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus but all of them are very vague and many require quite a stretch of imagination in order to see there fulfillment.

As far as Jesus' life, and the accuracy of the bible are concerned that is ridiculous. The bible is so full of historical errors and contradictions that I don't even know where to start. Jesus is a made up character based on many other "Godmen" of the era, and cast in a Jewish light, plain and simple. If anyone would like to prove his existence to me using non religious sources I am all ears.

It is funny how all these posters keep saying how accurate the bible is and how jesus really existed... and then quote the bible or some biblical scholar to prove it. Yah, right. *rolls eyes* Every non-christian scholar I've read says the exact opposite, so I am thinking that sort of proof won't be forthcoming any time soon.

And I don't mind that you don't take what I say as 100% true for you. I always suggest people do their own internal 'research' about anything like this. If it clicks for you, or gives you goose bumps or how ever you 'know' you are hearing 'truth', then and only then should you believe it. All of this pretty well clicks for me, but others may be looking at things from another perspective or with a different understanding and not necessarily feel that. And that is fine. I will only speak my 'truth', but do understand that sometimes that sometimes 'truth' isn't universal.

Great posts, Dragon and Magiq! It's quite sad to see so many bible believers here, desperately holding on to their beliefs for whatever reason. the concept of heaven and hell is the ultimate good cop/bad cop strategy employed by those who seek to control the masses (called NWO here)...as Dragongirl already pointed out, most people are clueless as to what happens after a person dies, so they are particularly vulnerable in that area. It's easy to manipulate someone about a subject when they are so uncertain about it...

I would like to encourage certain people in this thread to think a little more. Things like karma etc. can be seen in your everyday lives if only you allow yourself to see it. Things like God/Heaven/Hell/Jesus are untrue CONCEPTS, founded for the very worst of reasons. Don't waste time entertaining thoughts that were designed to cajole you into losing yourSELF...when people speak of God and God's will, they often lose their own personality, their own opinions, and their own judgements, instead placing the responsibility on 'God' to reward those who do his bidding and punish those who do not. Anyone who believes in a being that condemns non-believers to hell needs to re-evaluate themselves...

reply to post by VergeofObscene


Do you mean God in the christain religion sense?? Or no such thing as a creative force that we might call god??? A guy in the clouds making desicions is pretty stupid. But some kind of creeative force that made the universe dosen't sounds that out of the ordinary

This is amazing. Never before have I become this enraged, or disgusted, I'm not quite sure which. I guess that's just more emotion for the NWO to feed on, eh? How could you come up with this masterwork of insanity? I am impressed with your creative mind, though. But, come on! A group of demon-alien-spirits that try to control the world throughout the existence of man by creating religion. I'm not upset by this, I've read crazier ideas. They feed on human emotion, namely suffering. This is where I get pissed. It sounds like you got high out of your mind and read the X-Men's Dark Phoenix saga, and in the meantime were so hungry, that in your state of delusion, tried to devour your OWN emotions. It's the same way I feel about people who say animals can "smell your fear." Emotions cannot tangibly exist for consumption or be aromatic. I kind of could be proven wrong in that you can see an emotion displayed on another person, but I refuse to believe that you can use any of your other senses to be involved with emotions. Anyway, if your writing what you truly believe, then why not just let people who believe in religions be enslaved? Are you trying to "save" them as Christians seem to want to do for the rest of the world? I'm afraid that nothing told to me by any religion, atheist, or spirit world lady will change what I believe, and I will face what comes at the end of my time as I have everything else in my life. I don't see anything wrong with religion, whether I believe in any or not. Every modern religion I can think of at this moment is based on peace with your fellow man, rather than destroying them. That sounds contrary to the purpose of this NWO, who wants us to suffer. Wouldn't they have just kept the old pagan religions popular, like the Norse praise for valiant warriors who kill many in battle? This contradiction reminds me of many that people find in the very Bible you deem as leading to man's destruction.

By the way, I do agree that by now, if Heaven and Hell exist, they must be awfully crowded. However, I find reincarnation implausible as well. Rather, the only option I want to see as the afterlife, being an eternal, pleasant sleep. For some reason, I don't know why, I see it being gray and foggy.

The last thing I have to say is that Nebraska is one of the most beautiful places on earth. How dare you call it sucky! I'm not actually upset by that, I understand some might find it dull, but I enjoy it! To each their own, I suppose.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by smsjogren]

reply to post by Maddogkull


Was talking about the Christian God, but that could also apply to any God(s) that cause people to relinquish control of themselves unto others.

reply to post by smsjogren


Masterwork of insanity? Oh please. What is so insane about what Dragon says? Do you honestly think it's crazier than the concept of heaven or hell? When you walk out on the strees, and see a church, are you equally as disgusted? Obviously not seeing as ''never before'' have you been this disgusted.

And don't underestimate the power of thoughts and feelings...your entire life and being are governed by these. It's natural that other people are affected by the emotions of both themselves and others...so much so that certain people will try to manipulate them to serve their ends...

Originally posted by VergeofObscene
Great posts, Dragon and Magiq! It's quite sad to see so many bible believers here, desperately holding on to their beliefs for whatever reason. the concept of heaven and hell is the ultimate good cop/bad cop strategy employed by those who seek to control the masses (called NWO here)...as Dragongirl already pointed out, most people are clueless as to what happens after a person dies, so they are particularly vulnerable in that area. It's easy to manipulate someone about a subject when they are so uncertain about it...

I would like to encourage certain people in this thread to think a little more. Things like karma etc. can be seen in your everyday lives if only you allow yourself to see it. Things like God/Heaven/Hell/Jesus are untrue CONCEPTS, founded for the very worst of reasons. Don't waste time entertaining thoughts that were designed to cajole you into losing yourSELF...when people speak of God and God's will, they often lose their own personality, their own opinions, and their own judgements, instead placing the responsibility on 'God' to reward those who do his bidding and punish those who do not. Anyone who believes in a being that condemns non-believers to hell needs to re-evaluate themselves...

I so agree with you VoO! It is all designed to keep people under control and out of touch with what it takes to make full enlightenment, which is soooooooo not in the NWO's best interest! I say, think for yourselves. Don't be afraid. Fear is their greatest weapon; especially fear of what happens after you die. I am here to tell you, your next life happens after you die.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Originally posted by smsjogren
This is amazing. Never before have I become this enraged, or disgusted, I'm not quite sure which. I guess that's just more emotion for the NWO to feed on, eh? How could you come up with this masterwork of insanity? I am impressed with your creative mind, though.

If I made you think outside the box for even a moment then I consider it worthwhile, even if you got enraged or disgusted. That is rather an extreme reaction, I must say though. Sounds like some denial going on; it's called reaction formation. And thanks, but I didn't create any thing. I am just saying what I see in the racial/collective unconscious. I am not this creative, really.

But, come on! A group of demon-alien-spirits that try to control the world throughout the existence of man by creating religion. I'm not upset by this, I've read crazier ideas. They feed on human emotion, namely suffering. This is where I get pissed. It sounds like you got high out of your mind and read the X-Men's Dark Phoenix saga, and in the meantime were so hungry, that in your state of delusion, tried to devour your OWN emotions. It's the same way I feel about people who say animals can "smell your fear."

Actually I haven't even tried anything but alcohol, sorry. The using of drugs seems quite foolish to me and I prefer to handle my problems head on, versus hide from them with drugs or work or shopping or whatever (although I do admit to a bit of a Farmville addiction! *lol*) And I don't read comics, but it tells me that others are picking up this info from the spirit realm/racial unconscious too, but rather than risk the scorn and derision of saying what they are seeing/sensing, they present it as fantasy/fiction.

Devour my own emotions. That is kind of a weird idea. The demons feed on intense emotional energy as does the satan energy, but humans really don't feed on energy much, other than those desperate lonely people who can suck the energy out of the room just by being there. And heck yeah, animals have very sensitive noses and people who are afraid exude various obvious chemicals. No mystery there; it is actually proven, I am pretty sure.

Emotions cannot tangibly exist for consumption or be aromatic. I kind of could be proven wrong in that you can see an emotion displayed on another person, but I refuse to believe that you can use any of your other senses to be involved with emotions.

Emotions on a physical level are chemical reactions within the body, which then create a 'smell'.

Anyway, if your writing what you truly believe, then why not just let people who believe in religions be enslaved? Are you trying to "save" them as Christians seem to want to do for the rest of the world?

The NWO gets to 'own' us if we allow 80% of us enslaved. Not a good thing, so my intention is to try to awaken people and lessen the amount of people enslaved if possible. It is all very self serving! I so don't want to serve the NWO bunch as a slave or what ever depraved thing they may think of to do with me. *shudder*

I'm afraid that nothing told to me by any religion, atheist, or spirit world lady will change what I believe, and I will face what comes at the end of my time as I have everything else in my life. I don't see anything wrong with religion, whether I believe in any or not. Every modern religion I can think of at this moment is based on peace with your fellow man, rather than destroying them. That sounds contrary to the purpose of this NWO, who wants us to suffer. Wouldn't they have just kept the old pagan religions popular, like the Norse praise for valiant warriors who kill many in battle? This contradiction reminds me of many that people find in the very Bible you deem as leading to man's destruction.

Of course, I expect that you will believe as you see fit. I am just expressing what I see. Believe it or not, entirely your choice.

And the 'peace' thing is the very center of their control tool. To stop us from acting out of anger at being abused by them is the core of that center. For no other reason do they want humans to be 'peaceful'. Now we humans have taken up the 'torch' and made up a lot of other reasons, and true enough being calm is a much better spiritual position than agitated, be it by joy, grief, sadness or anger, but none of those other emotions pose a threat to the NWO control freaks, so that is why anger is pretty well singled out.

And the NWO knows that trying to contain your anger and feeling all guilty and ashamed because you can't or other shaming you because you can't will cause plenty of suffering, have no fear. The NWO gets plenty of giggles out of us trying to be and do what is completely unnatural to us and which is counter productive to spiritual and emotional growth, both. The real key is to be able to use ALL of your emotions without any one of them controlling you. The more you try to suppress an emotion, the more out of control it will get, trust me.

And considering that the ancient 'religions' were worshiping the elves, the NWO bunch would rather chew off their own arm than use anything the elves used.

By the way, I do agree that by now, if Heaven and Hell exist, they must be awfully crowded. However, I find reincarnation implausible as well. Rather, the only option I want to see as the afterlife, being an eternal, pleasant sleep. For some reason, I don't know why, I see it being gray and foggy.

That 'gray and foggy' is the 'veil' between worlds and lives. I believe if you really focus on seeing thru it, you will see thru to the spirit realm and possibly back into some of your own past lives. And since I remember plenty of past lives, they aren't at all implausible to me.

The last thing I have to say is that Nebraska is one of the most beautiful places on earth. How dare you call it sucky! I'm not actually upset by that, I understand some might find it dull, but I enjoy it! To each their own, I suppose.

I was from the cape cod area as a child in that life. My new husband wanted to go west.. Oh, I thought to myself, Oregon! yes! Nope. HIS west meant Nebraska. *ack*

I loved the ocean and those 'rolling waves of grass' were so close but sooooooo far from being the beautiful crashing waves of my beloved ocean. And this was in the late 1800's. It was a 3 day ride to town in a wagon and we lived at a subsistence level for most of the 35 long sucky years I was out there. On top of that, I had three boys. I think that is part of why I didn't have kids in this life! *lol*It was a really awful life; not hardly any fun at all! Nebraska was NOT a fun place to me, at all!


[edit on 30-9-2009 by DragonriderGal]

Dragon Rider Gal, again, you continue to impress me. You not only seemingly refute my thoughts quite intelligently, you do so well enough I can't think of any immediate way to pierce your defense. While I will continue to follow my own beliefs, I would like to rephrase some of the statements I made earlier. The enragement and disgust I felt earlier I think must have been left over from reading the Bible thumpers' posts. Blindly following anything, including a religion, is a path I have no intention of following so eagerly. Also, when I said it was a masterpiece of insanity, don't take that the wrong way. Insane and wrong are NOT the same thing, and I tend to glorify insanity whenever I see it in person, because I know everyone is capable of it. Also, I'm going to drop my biggest disagreement of the emotion idea, because when it comes to biochemistry, I am truly in over my head, so I can easily be persuaded that fear can be smelled. Considering that taste and smell are so closely linked, I can buy emotion being tasted. However, I still disagree on it being possible to EAT emotion as sustenance. Also, still disbelieving as I do, from my point of view, the "self-serving" defense, that you don't want to be enslaved YOURSELF, and that's your motivation, that's a good defense. Well-played indeed, I didn't expect that for some reason.

In a word: touche`.

Just for my own clear understanding, I'm going to describe the sides of this 'conflict' as I see them. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

The good side is us, because every group considers themselves to be the good guys. We need to... be able to be angry at the end of this contract? And Christianity and the other religions may prevent that? So are we going to fight them at the end, or do we just need to be able to get enraged at the NWO?

Our allies/people who just want the NWO to not win are the 'elves' who Native Americans in North and South America previously worshipped as their gods, as well as Greek/Roman/Norse/Egyptian, etc. mythologies. Essentially most ancient polytheisms worshipped the elves. The elves liked us because we worshipped them wholeheartedly, so they don't want the NWO to enslave us, rather they'd have us worship them (the elves) of our own free will.

The bad guys are the NWO aka Satan and his demons, who want us to... not be angry when they come around to enslave us. Well, I guess I can understand their position, if I wanted slaves, I sure want them to just come quietly and be docile little lambs. They want to enslave us to make us suffer, which they will then feed upon. Delicious, right?

In 2012 is when this contract's term is up, at which point if 80% of humanity... is not angry, they get to enslave us. Am I getting the anger deal right, because it seems odd, so please inform me on that. There is no way that even 2% of humanity would not get angry at the thought of being enslaved. Or will they come to us posing as the saviors in religion, disguised as Jesus and Moses and Buddha and Hulk Hogan? That way we go with them willingly as they deceive us? Is that what they plan?

How in the past have we made fools of them, out of curiousity? I wouldn't know, because I don't have hindsight into my 'past lives.' Truth be told, I doubt I would want to know about my 'past lives' even if I could. I would rather live each life like it was the only one I ever get. I don't know if it's the same feeling I have about knowing what my own death will be, but it's similar in that either way, I'd rather not know.

Also, I'm fairly doubtful that more than 15% of the world is truly faithful to the religion they subscribe to. A major reason why I dislike organized religions. Judging by my estimations, I think we'll be fairly safe when 2012 rolls around.