Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
A liter per ton of dirt is enough to provide plant-life.

Do you have any reference for that? Thanks in advance.

So... either it hails 24 hours a day on the moon and the hail is literally in liquid form for no more than a few minutes in the early morning until it is hot enough that it boils straight away and THEN it rains on the moon in the late evening but the rain droplets turn straight away into ice before they even hit the dirt...

I think you are forgetting that a day on the Moon is almost 28 Earth days (27 days 7 hours 43.2 minutes, according to Wikipedia)

OH my god. Is that so frickin' hard to imagine? REALLY?! Just because you were born and told a bunch of things... that you think there couldn't be an atmosphere?

No, because an atmosphere would be visible, at least by refracting the light in a different way. Haven't you seen images of the Earth from space, in which we can see the atmosphere around the Earth? In any planet that has an atmosphere that atmosphere changes the light that passes through it, I think it's Mars Express that has an experiment on board that uses the light from the stars seen through Mars' atmosphere to analyse the atmosphere's composition.

PS: I haven't seen or read the press-conference, that's why I am not commenting on what was said.

It doesn't matter how long the day is on the moon. It doesn't go from day to night immediately. It's always in constant transition from night to day on EVERY planetary body!

What evidence do you have that an atmosphere always reacts this way?

The water that is on the moon is NOT spread evenly throughout. It does concentrate in certain areas. Therefore, instead of just a bottle of water per ton of dirt in an evenly spread out area, imagine that half the moon has two bottles of water per 1000 pounds of dirt. 1000 pounds of dirt is about 1.5 cubic yards. (They never specified that we are dealing with moon gravity or earth gravity in these measurements, so I am using earth gravity for the moment.) 1.5 cubic yards is not much area, especially for a half-gallon of water! And since this water DOES cycle and the moon regenerates its water supply, this is way more than enough for plant life. Have you ever watered plants? This is much more water than the desert gets per cubic yard daily. The moon is getting it daily as it cannot keep water during the day and it cannot get rid of it at night.

If we are to assume for moon gravity, then 1000 pounds of dirt would be in about 9 cubic yards. Seeing as how the dirt is "lighter" there (and just to point out, I am guessing that everything on the moon is "lighter" during the day and "heavier" at night. How light is water at 120+ degrees fahrenheit? How heavy is water at 31- degrees fahrenheit? This is not only true for water, but for all things. The more movement there are in particles, the less its weight is in relation to its element.) Due to the lessened pressure (if we are to believe that moon gravity is what we are told) then therefore water or any other substance for that matter would be less dense by default. So, even if the temperature was an amazingly comfortable 70 degrees fahrenheit, water would be much less dense on the moon than it is on the earth. Therefore, it would spread out more easily), the measurements are pretty much the same.

Do I have a reference to back up intelligence? No, I looked. But you can find many references for the weight and measurements of dirt, the supposed temperatures and gravity of the moon, and of course if you can find a reference that states that no life could ever form outside of earth, I welcome you to bring it to the attention of ATS.

Take up gardening or farming. Or build a house. You'll get a feel for dirt.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
It doesn't matter how long the day is on the moon. It doesn't go from day to night immediately. It's always in constant transition from night to day on EVERY planetary body!

As you said "hails 24 hours a day" I thought that you considered that the time was relevant, so I thought it was a good opportunity of reminding people that a Moon day is almost the same as an Earth month.

What evidence do you have that an atmosphere always reacts this way?

As far as I know, any gas or vapour has a different refraction index when compared with the almost vacuum that surrounds the Moon, so any eventual atmosphere dense enough to change the behaviour of water should be also strong enough to affect light passing through it.

I do not have any real evidence of that, just some thought processes about known things.

The water that is on the moon is NOT spread evenly throughout. It does concentrate in certain areas. Therefore, instead of just a bottle of water per ton of dirt in an evenly spread out area, imagine that half the moon has two bottles of water per 1000 pounds of dirt. 1000 pounds of dirt is about 1.5 cubic yards. (They never specified that we are dealing with moon gravity or earth gravity in these measurements, so I am using earth gravity for the moment.) 1.5 cubic yards is not much area, especially for a half-gallon of water!

Sorry, those measurements are somewhat confusing to someone that has always used the more logical (and simple) metric system.

And since this water DOES cycle and the moon regenerates its water supply, this is way more than enough for plant life. Have you ever watered plants? This is much more water than the desert gets per cubic yard daily. The moon is getting it daily as it cannot keep water during the day and it cannot get rid of it at night.

I never watered plants on the desert, but I don't think that there is any completely dry soil. And you are now comparing Earth days with Moon days, so are you comparing the amount of water that the desert gets in 24 hours with the amount the Moon gets in almost 28 Earth days?

If we are to assume for moon gravity, then 1000 pounds of dirt would be in about 9 cubic yards. Seeing as how the dirt is "lighter" there (and just to point out, I am guessing that everything on the moon is "lighter" during the day and "heavier" at night. How light is water at 120+ degrees fahrenheit? How heavy is water at 31- degrees fahrenheit? This is not only true for water, but for all things. The more movement there are in particles, the less its weight is in relation to its element.) Due to the lessened pressure (if we are to believe that moon gravity is what we are told) then therefore water or any other substance for that matter would be less dense by default. So, even if the temperature was an amazingly comfortable 70 degrees fahrenheit, water would be much less dense on the moon than it is on the earth. Therefore, it would spread out more easily), the measurements are pretty much the same.

I don't think that the difference would be noticeable, as far as I know something like that was never noticed during any of the several Moon missions.

Do I have a reference to back up intelligence? No, I looked. But you can find many references for the weight and measurements of dirt, the supposed temperatures and gravity of the moon, and of course if you can find a reference that states that no life could ever form outside of earth, I welcome you to bring it to the attention of ATS.

Now that I have finally reached the weekend I have more time to research these things, it would be faster if you had any reference.

But I don't think that I will find any statement about life being limited to Earth, at least a statement based on facts, and I don't understand why you said that, as far as I noticed nobody was saying that life cannot exist outside Earth.

Take up gardening or farming. Or build a house. You'll get a feel for dirt.

My grandfather was the only family member that could do anything useful about gardening (including "convincing" a quince tree to give five different types of pears, along with quinces, and a carnation that was born in a cabbage).

As for building a house, I live in an apartment building in the middle of a town, so my construction skills are limited to some repairs done on an old house that my family had (the house needed more repairs than those that I could do or pay, so we are selling it).

To get a feel for dirt I could always try politics...

After a little investigation it looks like that amount of H2O (or HO) per ton is the same as the amount of silver in some mines, so it's a concentration at least high enough to be "harvested" (sorry, I'm too tired to think of the right word), if it goes deeper than just some millimetres.

I haven't found yet a comparison to Earth soil.

Solar wind hydrogen interacting with oxygen molecules in the lunar surface?
Large amounts of OH from photolysis or electrolysis from the solar wind?
Why photolysis of course, says the people who told us the moon is dry. (sarcasm).
Be careful they always assume H2O when finding OH as in the case of comets. They only have one rule book you know.
Although they are saying they found both I believe.

Good news can't wait for the explanation on how it got there.

All that OH and H2O floating around up there it means that Cherenchov radiation from Aristarchus has room to 'glow'

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
It doesn't matter how long the day is on the moon. It doesn't go from day to night immediately. It's always in constant transition from night to day on EVERY planetary body!

As you said "hails 24 hours a day" I thought that you considered that the time was relevant, so I thought it was a good opportunity of reminding people that a Moon day is almost the same as an Earth month.

You are right. I concede. It hails for 28 days straight on the moon then according to the theories of our beloved professionals (no, they didn't say it, they imply it by their own reasoning).

Thank you for correcting me.

As far as measurements which don't make sense to you, Google.com should make sense? (tsk, tsk - It has a built in measurement converter.)

But, if you really wanna, a gallon is about 3.7 liters and a cubic yard is very close to a cubic meter. But, since measurements are designed to be so precise...according to google, 1 meter = 1.09 yards.

As far as the atmosphere goes, the simple fact that we are living on orbs and not walls should be evidence enough of the possible illusions we have about light.

Besides, the point I've been getting at this whole time, and I can't believe I have to spell it out -- because I ALLUDED TO IT EARLIER with my "Lunar Springs" (patent pending) comment...

Trust me, if this ice came from comets bashing into or exploding over the moon, this stuff would be long gone by now. The evidence that was presented today by our very own hard-working tax-eating professionals proves this (and yet this statement as the only real possibility was still made...).

I didn't used to be so bitter. Honest.


I accepted your correction a little too soon!! The accepted time for a lunar day according to a lunar observer is 29.5 days. So, given all information that we understand so far, it hails 29.5/7 on the moon, if the moon has a 7 day week of course - we're going to have to ask our lunar mermaids to tell us their calender set-up.


[edit on 9/25/2009 by TarzanBeta]

Jezz hey! Water on the moon! It didn't even rate 5hr news cycle.

If they announced they discovered life in space I wonder how long a news cycle that would get? "12hrs maybe!" no one seems to care that much.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
As far as measurements which don't make sense to you, Google.com should make sense? (tsk, tsk - It has a built in measurement converter.)

But, if you really wanna, a gallon is about 3.7 liters and a cubic yard is very close to a cubic meter. But, since measurements are designed to be so precise...according to google, 1 meter = 1.09 yards.

I know that Google can convert from one measurement to another, but my biggest problem (and one that I didn't talk about on my post) is that sometimes I get the idea that some people (mostly in the US) use a different way of measuring volumes, so I never know what they mean when they talk about 3 cubic feet volume, for example. The way I have seen it, sometimes it looks like they are talking about a volume that is the same as a cube in which each side is 3 feet long, sometimes it looks like they are talking about a volume that is the same a cube in which each side is the cubic root of 3 feet.

Can anyone clear that doubt, please? Thanks.

As far as the atmosphere goes, the simple fact that we are living on orbs and not walls should be evidence enough of the possible illusions we have about light.

I don't understand it, what do you mean by that?

I accepted your correction a little too soon!! The accepted time for a lunar day according to a lunar observer is 29.5 days.

Isn't that the time it takes for the Moon to appear in the same place when seen from the Earth? Could you tell us where did you got that value? Thanks.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
You are a subject matter expert? Of what?

You can click on the "ATS subject matter expert" image and it will show you what is the forum for which that member was chosen as subject matter expert, but I can tell you that it's the "Aliens & UFOs" forum.

Google.com the dang crap and it'll jump out at ya and slap you in the face!

Google what? To which of my doubts are you referring to? All of them? Neither one of those things can be cleared by a Google search, that's why I am asking them.

I am thinkin some people here need to go back to their roots and start reading and being quiet for a while.

Something can only be cleared by other people. How can I know what people are referring to when they use some expressions that I do not know? Those things cannot be learnt through reading, they can only be explained by the person who said it.

That's why I do not know what people talk about when they say that "1000 pounds of dirt is about 1.5 cubic yards". To me that means, for example, that this dirt has a density of just 395.5 kg/m³, but that depends on what the person meant by that.

Also, how can a Google search explain to me what you mean by "we are living on orbs and not walls"? You are the only person that can be sure of what you mean by that. Sure, it may be my fault, after all English is not my mother tongue and I only use it on ATS, but maybe I am not the only one that would like that expression explained.

If you are also talking about the Lunar day length, that figure came from two Google searches, so making some more searches will probably return the same results, and I think that once more it's more a question of definition of what we are talking about, and that only direct conversation can clear.

I just had an interesting thought. Since the moon's gravity pulls at our oceans constantly, what are the chances for some of that water to be pulled onto the moon? Maybe in the form of water vapor, mist. etc...

As the moon moves across our oceans, gravity tugs and pushes water around. Could some small particles be making their way to the moon's surface?

[edit on 26-9-2009 by Pathos]