And to take it even a step higher.

I believe in what i'd call cockroach theory, that with enough numbers you get evolutionary adaptations that can cope with just about any scenario...

The reason we can never kill off roaches and over time they have survived every extinction that has come across this world...

Numbers are continuation of the species adaptation, I think we are dooming ourselves if lower our numbers.

What if there is Nuclear warm, how is it more likely that there would be enough survivors who simply are not reproductively effected by Radiation? With 2 Billion or 5 Billion or 10 Billion?

What about a comet, what about numbers of people, weird people that like closed in spaces that would have no problem living in caves? How many of them did we have 100 yrs ago vs now?

Lets wax religious... sort of, what if a messiah or for no believers a true evolutionary leap is simply as the nature of Math or God or what have you has things only will arise again after 12 Billion more replications? When does that leap come in 20 years or in 20,000 years long after that leap was needed by our species?

A step further,

Do you believe in conspiracies?

What if "something" understands cockroach theory and wants to keep our numbers low for rotten purposes, what if the reason for low numbers ranges from something as simple as control by Tptb... or as deep as the requests of an Alien species that wishes us contained for their own nefarious reasons?

I have no scientific evidence that suggests we are running out of space nor that we don't have the actual capacity to fix any food or energy or space issues we have, I do have tons of evidence to say the technology exists right now that we can do these things, the problems are human created and would exist regardless of numbers as a result of our inhumanity to each other.

Every single scientific fact I see suggests that numbers are fantastic genetic and populace safety net and will speed along evolution PARTICULARLY IF things are a little tough or a little gritty on that particular route as a species...

Nothing suggests we would fail to adapt to any conditions we create as a species if things get a little rough and dirty

And everything says to me this whole trend is about greed, comfort and control.

Well in my view, it's not so much the number of people, but what those people want from the earth that is the problem, I used to live in a small city in Queensland Australia 40,000 people and as a kid my friends and I would swim in a small fresh water creek where there is now an industrial estate I went there not long back for old times sake and I was disgusted.

It was polluted beyond belief by the mining equipment service plant upsteam, I complained to the environmental protection agency, nothing happened, probly went there looked and were reminded of the employment it generates, and the wealth it brings bla,bla,bla.

People just want too damn much, more,more,more. how many people is enough 8 billion 10 billion 20 billion 120 billion 200 billion. Wake up and smell the coffee man it can't go on forever.

The earth could support more people if they wanted less not more, but that aint gunna happen without a big wake up call.

Thats my two slices of bread worth anyway.

Haha, me Tarzan I SWING from your banana tree.......


Seriously though I completely agree, we are told that someone is our enemy and must be vanquished , and possibly there are some , a tiny minority who want to do the same to us, but like I said to my wife only yesterday, most people 99.9999999% of people just want to get up in the morning, go to work, love their familes and get home and go to bed every day. Only we are told there are millions of enemies out there who hunger for our blood, I say turn off the TV , go outside and make your own judgement on the people you meet in the street. DO NOT be told to hate someone simply because they're the flavour of the month bad guy.

Edited to add : It's all well and good explaining the pro's of living in the wilderness that is America , but here in the UK its a little bit tighter, there are hardly ANY decent land you can escape to , and most of it is farmland , so your likely to get some shotgun pellets up your jacksy by some irate farmer warning you to " Get Orf Moi Laaand". The ONLY decent forests IMO are Sherwood ( no jokes about men in tights ) or kelder up in Scotland.

[edit on 23/9/09 by DataWraith]

Fantastic thread friend it is nice to see SPIRITS like yours still EXIST GOD BLESS I couldnt have put it any better S&F. Also I see you have the star of METATRON (a very powerful ARCH ANGLE OF THE ALPHA CLASS) in your avatar NICE you are properly guided. Thanks again for spreading THE LIGHT.

What is depressing on this site is the sheer numbers who believe the crud that these madmen running the earth propose. They believe we should depopulate, some wishing to be controlled completely even if by a madman. They believe that as the NWO psychopaths are already planning all this that we should lay down, hold up a flag and say ‘Please, sir…we are already doing your insane bidding, don’t kill us.’
They believe in eugenics so that some imaginary superior race could evolve, rather than attempting to evolve themselves in any which way. They believe that ‘others’ should have their reproductive rights curtailed, although I don’t expect they mean themselves. They believe that homosexuals have birth defects and they should not be on earth as they cannot ‘contribute’ to society by breeding (make your minds up) although they are too stupid to see that homosexuals can and do breed if they so wish.
They believe that old people are useless eaters and should voluntarily die or be killed at a certain age (that view held by many utterly disgusts me). They believe that those that do not have a job and are on benefits are the scum of the earth because they are not actively in the system that chains the workers for their entire lives to suit the aims of the rich few. What logic is that?
These are people who believe that working for some piece of scum all their lives until they die is noble, responsible and the best one can do with a life, and that anybody who doesn‘t fit into that system has something wrong with them. They have never entertained the thought that maybe they have something wrong, that they have given up all hope of autonomy and a free life.
They do not see that by forfeiting their entire lives to working these frivolous and unnecessary jobs perpetuates the destruction. They do not see that they have every bit as many rights as a Rockefeller or a Rothschild or anyone in ‘power’, and that the imbalance between these elite lives and the worker lives needs to be addressed and changed.
The whole way the world works needs to scrapped and rebuilt in favour of everyone, which would mean only having jobs that needed doing, not to feed profit to fat fools, sharing of resources, getting rid of the money system and going back to a much simpler life where most would be a lot happier. It means actually cooperating, not competing…helping others not fighting them…working for the good of all and not your own selfish interests. That is something that has never been tried. I doubt it could work as so many are so caught up in darkness, slavery and brainwashing.
People seem to be so wholeheartedly embracing the sick ethics, defunct morals and aims of the NWO that it makes me wonder if there is something in the water. They are so keen to give up their rights as an equal human being that it is mind boggling.
Bottom line is that those who propose these things have already lost all humanity. They have killed pieces of their souls. They have lost all empathy and understanding. They are true slaves. Either that or fear has messed with any reasoning ability. Anyone who thinks like this is a clear and obvious danger to all humanity.
How dare anyone believe that you can dictate how anybody else shall live, whether they have offspring, what their sexuality is, and how and when they will die. It makes you every bit as evil as the psychopaths that are proposing that the mass of humanity should die because they are perceived as scum. The easier answer is to round up the psychopaths.

And to mopusvindictus, your opening post is just superb…utterly brilliant.

um no one wants to live in the areas that are uninhabited because there aren't enough amenities. If perhaps some people got together and built 7 cities the size of Los Angeles in these rural areas and made them financially relevant to the rest of the world, PERHAPS overpopulation would be solved.

you forget that everyone is stupid and wants to live in LA or New york, or SF, or Chicago, or what the hell ever because there are so many people and things happening all the time.


edit: I must note you have good intentions but I think this would be relevant if more people on earth felt the same way you did.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by piddles]

This is SOOOOO TRUE Mopus....


There was an article in Wired 8-9 years ago which talked about this as well... their conclusion?

Overcrowding? Yes definitely...

Overpopulation? Not at all...

They listed the same stats you have, the spoke about the uninhabited land in Texas, Canada, etc

Sadly many here on ATS don't want to hear this... they are deluded that the NWO is trying to reduce population etc...

Indeed the only real challenge we have is to learn to work together as the global community we are becoming.

Taking necessary precautions to protect the environment and all of it's inhabitants is not a stupid idea. There's also nothing wrong with having faith that science and technology will continue to sustain us. We need to reinvent the wheel and discover something as big as the discovery of the wheel. Technology and science could save the planet. There's almost no limit to the driven human spirit.

So for now take heed to your daily actions and try your hardest to protect and conserve. The technology is not here yet but I truly believe in human ingenuity. When that discovery and technology is finally here, we will be able to grow beyond our wildest dreams.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by libertytoall]

Just because something can be done doesn't necessarily make it the best thing to do.

You can say less is more, but who gets to decide how much less you are entitled to? Do we have inspections and enforcement agencies to ensure to don't use more than your fair share, and who decides what your fair share is?

Should people all get 1 little plot of land, say 50x50? Or do we really use available space and build 80 story towers where everyone gets 1 room. I mean, less is more, right?

While I do agree with you that the way we do things now can be done more efficiently, I have to ask myself why people feel the need to have 5,6,7 or more kids. We can not continue to increase our population without consequence. Under your plan, do you get to use more resources than me if you make a choice to have ten kids, while I only choose to have two?

Also, throwing numbers out about population densities has no real bearing on reality. Sure Canada and Russia have vast areas that are unpopulated but you ignore the fact that they are unpopulated because they are frozen, barren tundras. Should we force people to live there simply because the land exists? And how do you get supplies and food to large populations in frozen areas without requiring the use of even more resources?

In your example of living underground in the rain forest and farming near the river... how much of the rain forest do you cut down to farm? How much more do you cut down as the population increases unchecked?

While I believe your intentions are good, I don't believe you've really thought about it much.

Its not a population crisis its an IDIOT crisis.

In the future there will be access to technology that will distroy entire solar systems. All those with no desire to undersatnd and respect the power that they have must be removed, or we all die.

Great thread starred and flagged.

The NWO corrals us in to claustrophobic conditions to give the appearance of over population. We all know there is plenty of area to live and grow food.

They will never allow that though and even now they are trying to restrict the growing of food so they will need more GMO crops which they can control completely.

The fact is, the elite want most of us dead because the more of us there are the harder things are to control.