We have been born into an Abundant Universe

The only thing the human race and many of those posting here actually needs and that is to take control of is primitive territorial instincts that leave them in a constant state of resource FEAR.

Some of you are advocating KILLING or Controlling over Territory, This is a completely Animal and wholly IMAGINARY response that has been causing death since the first Hominid killed another hominid over a fruit tree when there were only 20 Hominids over 300 sq miles of territory

Sadly most of us haven't changed a bit since then. Perhaps a bit, now in this day it takes pseudo science spewed by an attractive talk show host to convince us someone Else's presence will eliminate all the bananas

I repeatedly go over the FACTS on this subject here at Ats

I go out my door...

There are 300 plus miles of national forest one way and another 300 miles the other way 95% uninhabited by human life, this is in the Continental USA

Alaska is 1/3 the size of the USA and is 98% Uninhabited

Canada is less than 5% inhabited and it the second largest country in the world

the largest Russia has a similar population density across more than half of it's land area

25% of the Continental United Sates the most Industrialized high consumption Nation on Earth, has never been surveyed except by air, Human beings have not set foot beyond a few unnamed explorers on much of our soil.

For all intents and purposes 2 continents, Greenland and Antarctica sit untapped under ice, ice which is all fresh water btw

We have only begun to learn how to build Islands

2/3rds of the Earth is covered by water, 2/3rds of it's life, it's untapped resources, it's space to build and live and we are just beginning to learn and have barely scratched the surface of this bulk of our planet.

Our power can be derived from Nuclear, Air, Hydro, Solar, aside from struggling with switching over the automotive industry, we will never run out of power, we already have cars that wont require the oil of today when we truely need them.

Vertical Farms can increase food production 10 fold

Africa has the capacity to exceed the food production of the United States

Aqua culture is virtually untapped

50% or more of food is lost to waste and inefficiency

NY State by itself produces enough Milk and Eggs for the entire United Sates

The United States supplies 1/3 of the worlds food and for all intents and purposes we have not changed farming methods to more productive means aside from shorting the amount of needed labor.

the Industrialized world is not expanding in population.

We have only in the last 10 years began to understand genetics in a meaningful way to produce inevitable "super foods"

Science has inevitably always overcome our population Fears, if you went to the Western Europe prior to the discovery of America and the Industrial era you would have heard the same grave talk about world ending population growth we do today, the cycle of obstacle and solution is ever present in Human History and History has shown from that first hominid fighting over fruit before the first farm until today these FEARS have always been un founded

With all the above stated and a Myriad of sciences untapped...

We now have to add to the fracas... Space

A universe laid out before us the nearest planet less than a 1 year journey away hardly any distinct difference from the first voyages to the New World time wise. Before that we have Asteroids worth One Trillion in Platinum and beyond that one day worlds made of Diamond, Resources, we have dug at best 2 miles, the time will come we can enter the core...

It has been 40 years since we first set foot on the Moon,we walk into over time now a brave new era of exploration at a time when the Earth is honestly just fine, with 3/4 of it's surface available, unlimited energy from the Sun and other means, new farming techniques and more that makes it possible to sustain 10 fold the worlds current population... COMFORTABLY before we reach any form of crisis

So decide

Now

If you are a Hominid ready to pick up a rock and bash another hominids head in for a banana.

Or

If your the hominid that chose instead to plant a seed and make more Banana trees...

Because I can make one prediction, those Hominids had children and continued their line and became us, and when the other Hominids, the ones that decided they needed to kill the others and keep the Bananas to themselves, though violent and controlling and numerous... when they faced the seed planters and tried to kill or take their babies, they found the more inventive of their ilk also had the creative potential to do allot more with a rock, like make an Axe or spear than the dumber less creative Hominids who chose FEAR and Control as their method of survival.

To Fear instead of Create... is to chose extinction of your line.

By self in simply choosing to not reproduce

Or by the hand of others who will reproduce and wish to protect those children, if you choose FEAR you are at your genetic end no matter how you look at it.

They tell me the world is in economic crisis, they tell me the environment is damaged beyond our control, they tell me that we are overpopulated. They tell me children are being born mutated.

Yet

Every day I learn and adapt... and it is beautiful outside today, my 3 children are thriving, I find means to provide for them, use new technology to earn money where factory workers are broke...

Every day, I improve my situation, my 3 children are fine and doing great and so am I and I intend to have more...

In 40 years I will still be here, surrounded by my many grandchildren, eating well living a great life

My 5 best friends have one child between them, likely, they will be old and alone and at the end of their genetic lines, like Hominids who refused to see that One Tree could become a 1000 Trees.

Me Fearless I will be a part of the potential and future of the Human Race

In this perhaps there is proof of Good and Evil a proverbial Devil behind the FEAR, Fear drives some of you to, abort your children, to enslave your fellow man, to literally kill yourselves to end your linage and perhaps it is here and on this topic that we see the purpose that whatever creator or universal math or nature or whatever you believe in has seen fit to allow for a Devil, for it drives some of us to fall from the gene pool via Fear. It is the Strengthening and advancing of what we are, the bettering of our species in the form of those who have the capacity to walk into the darkness unafraid knowing things will be okay just as they always have in.

Because there is no sense in no reproduction when children are born geniuses that solve problems and a Universe is laid out before us vast with countless worlds and like those first Hominids that simply could not see beyond One fruit tree, some of us simply can not see that there is an entire Universe shining on us from the stars above.

I do not offer the solution as to how we will get there only the faith in myself and others like me that we will.

I know long, long ago, some young Hominid looked at that tree and him and his children stared at it giving rise to thought and action and one day, probably right when the last fruit to feed that family was almost gone and almost surely by accident another tree popped up and one bright Hominid figured out how it happened

The rest as they say, was History

Some of Us have a Future History, Others do not

Don't let the big dumb territorial hominids tell you there isn't enough to eat, don't let them lord over the carcass swing their stick around starving you, making you not reproduce, killing your offspring.

That's all this is, there is not One single Truth in science to over population, global warming, energy or resource crisis, there has NEVER been since the beginning of time nor will there ever be.

there is nothing more than a scared Ape afraid to plant seeds in your way as always.

Some will spout numbers of homeless and poor

And to those I simply ask you to look and see if it is Men or resources that cause these dilemmas. If there are starving it is at the hands of their own people with intent, if they are homeless it is from lack of compassion from others around them.

And these situations have always been, it is not now nor ever been an issue of resource when we see suffering, simply Fear of survival, Humans acting like Animals and refusing to see the infinite capacity we really have to survive and flourish, Fear, an Animal instinct a desire to have territory because before we had hands and language we had no ability to Create and change our environment and this primitive instinct is what allows us to believe that the sky is falling when surely it is not.

Thank God for common sense!

I believe you are completely right on this - thank you for injecting some overdue sense with a big dollop of hope

I am tired of being the 'big bad' just because I am human - it really isn't all my fault and the earth isn't going to hell in a handcart because I have more than one child!

We are kept in a state of constant fear because thats how control is maintained and I also choose not to submit.

Go forth and multiply!

Forgot to add, starred and flagged cos you cheered me up.
2nd line

A very good thread mate, and yes, most of what you say is true.

But unfortunately, we don't (YET) live in the world you describe.

I wish we did.

But the reality of this planet is that we are destroying, killing and choking it to death.

Nothing would give me more joy than to live in harmony with each other and nature, wasting little, using our resources well, sharing with one another and building a planet of plenty.

But I am sorry, we are not at that idyllic and idealised point at the moment.

I am sorry, but being a realist does not make me any less inspired or human than you.

It just means I am willing to admit that there is some hard work to bring us into line, before we rebuild the world that you describe, and we all want.

Respectfully, kiwifoot



[edit on 22-9-2009 by kiwifoot]

The main problem is that many parents aren't teaching their children to have respect for the environment, other human beings and their planet in general. Procreation isn't the problem as much as being uneducated or uncaring about this Earth we exist on. If you don't appreciate the beauty of our planet, and as a species do much to damage it, expect the result in the long run to be disastrous. Or, what goes around comes around. (And more education about keeping our planet alive and prospering is sorely needed.)

Ah, you silly silly people. If you were right OP, if only you were right.I've outlined my stance in the other two threads, as well as mentioning the pro's and con's, but really, it doesn't matter.

You have no choice in the matter, your voice means nothing, and that is the way it is. If you want to go forth and be fruitful endlessly, then it is your own children you are condemning and I sincerely hope you can live with that.

You see, humans are very egotistical. The three threads we've had on this topic today show that plainly. Asking your opinion on something that huge? You have NO opinion that could matter on that subject. You cannot force 7 billion people to willingly undergo sterilization, any more than you could force them to have children.

Nature has built-in safeguards for species's that exceed their sustainability point. Sooner or later the tipping point will be broached, and we will go the way of the Maclears Rat, most likely through an unpreventable disease or through the removal of a key part of earths biosphere in our zest to keep expanding our numbers. Nature does not care if you want us to have babies, or not have babies, it does not give a damn how much you value choice, it will kill the human race if it damages the biosphere too much, which we will if you want to keep expanding.

Life for the sake of life is stupidity, it is animalistic and base. We argue that abolishing capital punishment is what separates us from the animals, but really, it makes us just as primitive in a different fashion. Nature will take its course whether you like it or not, no matter what you do, and the superflu's we are seeing as well as ongoing ecological decline are proof of that.

As for the rest of the universe? We can't even make a single flight to our own orbiting satellite, let alone colonize another planet. Allow humans to continue breeding exponentially, and we will never set foot on Mars let alone another green world.

But, as I said, there's nothing you can do about that. The pro-life crowd has had their way, and in the future they will not. The human race is going to be knocked down eventually, and you will have to sit there and watch, because your opinion on the matter means absolutely nothing to the forces of nature.





[edit on 22-9-2009 by D.E.M.]

One thing is certain. I know for a fact the earth can support billions more than the 800 million or whatever silly number that the guild stones suggest. I'd like to meet the bonehead that thought of that idea.

On another ntoe, I absolutely love how the OP waxes poetic on the beauty of the world he see's before him, and then goes on to say there's room enough for all. Apparently not realizing that endless population will result in said beautiful nature being plowed under for a barren plain of agriculture and housing subdivisions. Gotta love that wilderness when it's all chewed up for food and shelter for the unwashed masses. Yup, pretty awesome lack of biodiversity there.

Keep on the rose tinted glasses guys, keep on the rose tinted glasses.

There's too many of us on the planet. I know of a few countries we could get rid of. These people are useless and should also be thrown into the mix. Some of us still think we have bigger problems.

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]