How do "non-believers " explain the passport?

Originally posted by hooper
The only problem I have with this analysis is it wrongly implies that there is a "group" that thinks 9/11 was an inside job. There is no group. It is a small sub segment of a small sub culture that is deeply invested in conspiracies. You would have to go through the US population with a fine tooth comb to find enough people to fill a high school stadium, if that. Generally speaking, once you turn off your computer that "group" pretty much disappears.

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Polls...

In August 2004, 911Truth.org commissioned Zogby International for a poll that concluded "half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act."

In May 2006, 911Truth.org commissioned Zogby International for a poll that concluded 45% of voting Americans think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success."

In August 2006, Scripps Howard/Ohio University conducted a poll that concluded, "more than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East."

In October 2006, a poll was conducted by CBSNews/New York Times that said, "only 16 per cent of respondents say the government headed by U.S. president George W. Bush is telling the truth on what it knew prior to the terrorist attacks."

In September 2007, 911Truth.org commissioned Zogby International for a poll that concluded "51% of Americans want Congress to probe Bush/Cheney regarding the 9/11 Attacks."

In November 2007, Scripps Howard/Ohio University conducted another poll that concluded, "nearly two-thirds of Americans think it is possible that some federal officials had specific warnings of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings."

In December 2007, a poll was conducted in Hudson County that showed residents, "are more likely than not to believe that U.S. government officials chose to ignore warnings about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks."

In September 2008, a poll was conducted that showed, "there is no consensus outside the United States that Islamist militants from al Qaeda were responsible."

Then there's the first CNN poll, the second CNN poll, the MSNBC poll, and the Showbiz Tonight poll, all of which were very much in favor of the views held by members of the 9/11 Truth Movement community.

Originally posted by sumgai
reply to post by hooper

 

patriotsquestion911.com...

Nuff said.

What we really NEED is a 2009 poll, which includes the question about MIHOP (made it happen on purpose).

[edit on 1-10-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by hooper


So Hooper what does your statment say about you? You contend that all the people in the USA that believe 9/11 was a inside job(whatever that blanket statement means) would not even fill a hs stadium.

What does that say about you and people like you who feel this intense need to constantly come back to 9/11 forums and "fight" and "insult" such a small group of peoples seemingly meaningless opinions, that you don't even believe in the first place.

Unless you have been personally touched by the event somehow it makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by Stillresearchn911
reply to post by hooper

 

So Hooper what does your statment say about you? You contend that all the people in the USA that believe 9/11 was a inside job(whatever that blanket statement means) would not even fill a hs stadium.

What does that say about you and people like you who feel this intense need to constantly come back to 9/11 forums and "fight" and "insult" such a small group of peoples seemingly meaningless opinions, that you don't even believe in the first place.

Unless you have been personally touched by the event somehow it makes no sense at all.

What it says is that unfortunately the internet has the tendency to magnify reality. There may be hundreds of sites dedicated to this stuff, but the # of Americans who actually believe this stuff is very low. What I hope is that if in the future if someone visits one of these sites that they may be allowed to see that this conspiracy stuff does not go unchallenged.

Originally posted by hooper
What I hope is that if in the future if someone visits one of these sites that they may be allowed to see that this conspiracy stuff does not go unchallenged.

My hope is that the CONSPIRACY THEORY of the official story is exposed to what it actually is. A conspiracy theory. And that IT does NOT go unchallenged.

The Point is yes other pieces of paper survived, and large seat cushions survived, but all these things were burned/singed at least a little.

The passport, passport cover, red bandana at Shanksville were in PRISTINE condition.

That's why I have a problem, and believe it was planeted evidence. Especially since they didnt even bother getting the guys name who produced this passposrt??????? C'mon.

You ever get that feeling , you know the one, like when your being LIED TO.

Yes sadly the government does lie to people. Cops plant evidence daily. The CIA creates evidence and plants it all the time. Stop living in fantasy land.

What, your saying MY government, and the people who work for the United States of America might be lieing to me? Nah, No Way.

WAKE UP!!!!

how do belivers explain the lack of bodies from all three crashes ?

just curious,

You'd be surprised by what can stay attacked. My friend, who is a firefighter, told me that a house had completely burnt to the ground but once someone opened the refrigerator, the milk was still cold.

Originally posted by hooper
What it says is that unfortunately the internet has the tendency to magnify reality. There may be hundreds of sites dedicated to this stuff, but the # of Americans who actually believe this stuff is very low. What I hope is that if in the future if someone visits one of these sites that they may be allowed to see that this conspiracy stuff does not go unchallenged.

.....so what does it say about you that you completely disregard a post FULLLLLLL of polls to show just how wrong you are and that far more people than you want to admit believe this. Do you claim to know better than each of the organizations listed that did a poll?

Originally posted by hooper
The only problem I have with this analysis is it wrongly implies that there is a "group" that thinks 9/11 was an inside job. There is no group. It is a small sub segment of a small sub culture that is deeply invested in conspiracies. You would have to go through the US population with a fine tooth comb to find enough people to fill a high school stadium, if that. Generally speaking, once you turn off your computer that "group" pretty much disappears.

I don't know how old you are but you are really underestimating the massive amount of people who don't believe the official story but don't really care to get involved out of fear or apathy.

Most young people I discuss the issue with (18-25) are aware of the anomalies and contradictions of the official story.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by hooper
What it says is that unfortunately the internet has the tendency to magnify reality. There may be hundreds of sites dedicated to this stuff, but the # of Americans who actually believe this stuff is very low. What I hope is that if in the future if someone visits one of these sites that they may be allowed to see that this conspiracy stuff does not go unchallenged.

.....so what does it say about you that you completely disregard a post FULLLLLLL of polls to show just how wrong you are and that far more people than you want to admit believe this. Do you claim to know better than each of the organizations listed that did a poll?

Actually, I have yet to see a poll that specifically states whether or not you believe, for instances, that the plane crash site at Shanksville was staged and that Flight 93 never crashed and was spirited away somewhere and the passengers "erased". Or asks whether Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon but was actually a big magic trick. Most of the polls simply asks if those polled think there should be more of an investigation, not specifically stating the focal point of the investigation.

reply to post by hooper


Well most people don't really believe in one specific theory for 9/11.

Many are very complicated and many are ridiculous disinformation.

However, many people have a general feeling of strangeness surrounding the oddities and anomalies.

If you tell me a lie I don't have to know the true story to know your story is ridiculous and impossible.

Originally posted by Jezus
reply to post by hooper

 

Well most people don't really believe in one specific theory for 9/11.

Many are very complicated and many are ridiculous disinformation.

However, many people have a general feeling of strangeness surrounding the oddities and anomalies.

If you tell me a lie I don't have to know the true story to know your story is ridiculous and impossible.

I am little confused by what you mean when you say "most people". If you mean a simple majority of the US or world population, I could pretty much assure you that much, much, much more than most know that the events of 911 were the direct result of the purposeful actions of a handful of terrorists. I would venture to guess probably about 99.999% or more Americans feel this way. Now, some of those may believe that the administration and the US intelligence community may have been caught asleep at the switch and would like to know more about those processes and how they are being improved upon, however, they should not be confused with the very, very very, small sub segment of a conspiracy sub-culture (industry) who may either think, believe or propogate the notion that nefarious forces within the US political structure orchestrated 911 as a giant magic trick in order to promote some otherwise unachievable political goal.

Originally posted by hooper
I could pretty much assure you that much, much, much more than most know that the events of 911 were the direct result of the purposeful actions of a handful of terrorists. I would venture to guess probably about 99.999% or more Americans feel this way.

I'm not sure where you got this idea...

posted by Jezus
reply to post by hooper

 

Well most people don't really believe in one specific theory for 9/11.

Many are very complicated and many are ridiculous disinformation.

However, many people have a general feeling of strangeness surrounding the oddities and anomalies.

If you tell me a lie I don't have to know the true story to know your story is ridiculous and impossible.

posted by hooper

.............. about 99.999% or more

Another pompous over-exaggeration.

Where do you come up with such nonsensical numbers?

The Japanese Parliament is publicly discussing the lies of the 9-11 OFFICIAL Story.

Former heads of European governments and other important officials are demanding an investigation.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. European Command

Francesco Cossiga – President of Italy (1985 - 1992) and Former Prime Minister

Giulietto Chiesa – Member of European Parliament, 2004 - present (Italy)

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand from New York 2009 - present

Senator Charles Schumer from New York 1999 - present

Senator Patrick Leahy from Vermont 1974 - present

Congressman Ron Paul from Texas 1979 - 1985, 1997 - present

Congressman Dennis Kucinich from Ohio

Former Senator Bob Kerrey from Nebraska and Congressional Medal of Honor winner

Judge Louis Freeh – Director of the FBI, 1993 - 2001

Former Senator Mike Gravel from Alaska

Former Senator Lincoln Chafee from Rhode Island

Former Senator Bob Graham from Florida

Former Senator Mark Dayton from Minnesota

Former Gov. Jesse Ventura – 38th Governor of Minnesota

Former Congressman Curt Weldon from Pennsylvania


And lots and lots more

Source

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63b7387179af.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by hooper
Actually, I have yet to see a poll that specifically states whether or not you believe, for instances, that the plane crash site at Shanksville was staged and that Flight 93 never crashed and was spirited away somewhere and the passengers "erased". Or asks whether Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon but was actually a big magic trick. Most of the polls simply asks if those polled think there should be more of an investigation, not specifically stating the focal point of the investigation.

Who cares. Have you seen any that show how many people think the government lied. Period.

According to this CNN article

archives.cnn.com...

"The searchers found several clues, he said, but would not elaborate. Last week, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center."

Therefore, Satam M. A. al-Suqami 's (one of the alleged hijackers on Flight 11) passport was found approximately one block north of WTC 1, in the vicinity of Vesey Street. Take a look at this diagram for easier reference

i277.photobucket.com...

So what does the location where the passport was found mean? It means the following:

1) the passport was dropped out of the airliner prior to Flight 11 impacting WTC 1

or it means

2) the passport was ejected backwards onto Vesey Street after Flight 11 had entered WTC 1

I think we can all agree that the above two scenarios are highly unlikely.

Now this is where we run into a slight problem Houston. The YouTube video posted on the first page of this thread states that the force of the air ejected the passport in a southern direction through WTC 1 and out the southern side of the building

www.youtube.com...

Therefore, according to the YouTube video theory, the passport should have been found on the street in the vicinity south of WTC 1. How can this be? The CNN report states that passport was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, which is approximately one block north of the WTC 1 and several blocks away from the YouTube theory.

Can someone please explain why that passport was located one block north of WTC 1, when, according to the YouTube video theory, the passport should have been located approximately one block south of WTC 1?

And here is one more rather elementary question. Did the authorities bother to dust the passport for fingerprints (Crime School 101), so they could attempt to determine who had previously handled it, be it the hijacker or the person who found it and handed it to the NYC Detective?


[edit on 6-10-2009 by SphinxMontreal]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by SphinxMontreal]

Someone should check to see if the passport belongs to one of the supposed hijackers that the BBC discovered were still alive. If he is then well, that's your smoking gun.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
According to this CNN article

archives.cnn.com...

"The searchers found several clues, he said, but would not elaborate. Last week, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center."

Therefore, Satam M. A. al-Suqami 's (one of the alleged hijackers on Flight 11) passport was found approximately one block north of WTC 1, in the vicinity of Vesey Street. Take a look at this diagram for easier reference

i277.photobucket.com...

So what does the location where the passport was found mean? It means the following:

1) the passport was dropped out of the airliner prior to Flight 11 impacting WTC 1

or it means

2) the passport was ejected backwards onto Vesey Street after Flight 11 had entered WTC 1

I think we can all agree that the above two scenarios are highly unlikely.

Now this is where we run into a slight problem Houston. The YouTube video posted on the first page of this thread states that the force of the air ejected the passport in a southern direction through WTC 1 and out the southern side of the building

www.youtube.com...

Therefore, according to the YouTube video theory, the passport should have been found on the street in the vicinity south of WTC 1. How can this be? The CNN report states that passport was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, which is approximately one block north of the WTC 1 and several blocks away from the YouTube theory.

Can someone please explain why that passport was located one block north of WTC 1, when, according to the YouTube video theory, the passport should have been located approximately one block south of WTC 1?

And here is one more rather elementary question. Did the authorities bother to dust the passport for fingerprints (Crime School 101), so they could attempt to determine who had previously handled it, be it the hijacker or the person who found it and handed it to the NYC Detective?


[edit on 6-10-2009 by SphinxMontreal]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by SphinxMontreal]

Or it means that when a piece of paper is dropped from an elevation of 850 feet it doesn't fall to the ground like a cannon ball. It may, just may, have been effected by the atmoshpere.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by hooper
Actually, I have yet to see a poll that specifically states whether or not you believe, for instances, that the plane crash site at Shanksville was staged and that Flight 93 never crashed and was spirited away somewhere and the passengers "erased". Or asks whether Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon but was actually a big magic trick. Most of the polls simply asks if those polled think there should be more of an investigation, not specifically stating the focal point of the investigation.

Who cares. Have you seen any that show how many people think the government lied. Period.

Yeah, people believe that some people in government lie. And people in business lie and people in religion lie. In fact the common human experience is that no group or occupation is wholly immune to lying. But how many people believe that everyone in the government is capable of mass murder?

posted by SphinxMontreal
According to this CNN article

Therefore, Satam M. A. al-Suqami's (one of the alleged hijackers on Flight 11) passport was found approximately one block north of WTC 1, in the vicinity of Vesey Street. Take a look at this diagram for easier reference

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/73f1b96bb1a4.jpg[/atsimg]

So what does the location where the passport was found mean? It means the following:

1) the passport was dropped out of the airliner prior to Flight 11 impacting WTC 1

or it means

2) the passport was ejected backwards onto Vesey Street after Flight 11 had entered WTC 1

I think we can all agree that the above two scenarios are highly unlikely.

Great find SphinxMontreal. Thank you so much. I don't believe I have seen that CNN article before. Found on the wrong side of the North Tower.

-- Police and the FBI completed a grid search of area streets near the site of the World Trade Center looking for clues, said Barry Mawn, director of New York's FBI office.

The searchers found several clues, he said, but would not elaborate. Last week, a passport belonging to one of the hijackers was found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center. "It was a significant piece of evidence for us," Mawn said.

CNN Source

posted by hooper

Or it means that when a piece of paper is dropped from an elevation of 850 feet it doesn't fall to the ground like a cannon ball. It may, just may, have been effected by the atmoshpere.

Gee willikers hooper; were you born in deep denial? Looking at this larger diagram of the WTC, Vesey Street runs between WTC7 and WTC6. WTC1 which was struck by the alleged Flight 11 aircraft, in which the alleged Satam M. A. al-Suqami's paper passport was supposed to be located inside the fuselage, is south of WTC6 isn't it hooper? So Vesey Street is north of the North Tower isn't it hooper?

Larger Diagram from Moussouai Trial Exhibits

So this aircraft flying at 500 knots from the north goes through the North Tower in a huge fireball with the paper passport supposedly inside the aircraft.

All the inertia (momentum) of the aircraft debris, explosion, etc was to the south, and silly Mr hooper is trying to CON us into accepting that this planted paper passport would somehow float in the air from the 97th floor on the southside of the North Tower, around the 208 foot square bulk of the North Tower, and float about 500 feet to the north to land on Vesey Street?

Give us a break hooper. Your deep deep denial is getting sickening. From this view to the west in Hoboken New Jersey, that is the WTC7 on the left and the wind that day was blowing away from Vesey Street wasn't it hooper? You would have us believe that this planted paper passport also blew about 500 feet to the north against the wind? Once again the FBI screwed you by officially informing CNN that this planted paper passport from an alleged Flight 11 hijacker was found on Vesey Street. Of course later the FBI altered the script, and changed it to a complete stranger found the paper passport and handed it to a NYPD detective. I guess the FBI has figured out that a lot of Americans do not trust them and know they plant and fake a lot of evidence.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4d3d305d9a51.jpg[/atsimg]