The forgotten flag of the United States, page 1

Hi ATS

I was doing a search on the origins of the American flag yesterday until I came across an independent blog done by the American Patriot Network.

There was interesting paragraph that mentioned the federal government abolishing the civilian flag and establishing old glory, the flag the currently files today.

It is believed by some historians that the Civil Flag was discontinued after the Civil War when the federal government imposed military governments in the States and disbanded civilian government. As a show of it's power over the States, Civil Flags were discontinued and Old Glory became the sole emblem representing the People of the United States of America, united under military (or admiralty) rule.

Wow talk about tyranny

Here is a link to article I found and at the top of page you will see old the flag.
The Mystery of the Forgotten U.S. Flag

reply to post by Big Oil

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i've always thought of the stars on the US flag as the bullet holes, and the red stripes the blood of the innocent that they had to shed in order to form this country.

truly we are a nation that was formed on genocide. i wonder how things will turn out for us.

reply to post by feedpeopletosharks

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You are aware that the majority of flags around the world contain red, right?

The most popular colour used on flags is red (Table 4). Red has been the most popular colour throughout the century. Although it has declined from appearing on 81% of the flags surveyed in 1917 to 74% in 1999, it is still the most popular colour used on flags today. White also remains a popular colour and is found in 71% of all flags, slightly down from a high of 77% in 1917. Yellow has shown an overall increase from 26% in 1917 to 43% currently, while the use of blue has declined steadily from 67% at the beginning of the century to 50% today. The use of both black and green has shown constant increases, green showing the most dramatic increase from appearing on 16% of the flags in 1917 to 42% in 1999. The most obvious explanation for this is the use of green in the flags of Africa, and the Islamic countries of the Middle East and Asia. The use of black is also a feature in nearly a third of African flags.
flagspot.net...

reply to post by lpowell0627

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Using his logic, i'm not even sure what the implications would be for the canadian flag...

www.fotw.net...!ful.html

Civilian Flag
Nathaniel Hawthorn's "The Scarlet Letter" contains a description of an American Customs flag erroneously described as having 13 stripes, when in fact it has 16. One stripe for each state at the time the flag was introduced. Remember, this was before limiting the stripes to 13. The story also states that this indicated a civil operation rather than military. This statement is somewhat true, but not totally accurate. Yes customs is a civil authority, but this does not mean that all civil authorities use this flag. Also let us not forget that The Scarlet Letter is a work of fiction and not a research document by any means and therefore should not be used as a primary source. Primary sources would include legislation and executive orders, these are non-existent for the flag described at this site. The research for the U.S. flag legislation has been thoroughly researched by vexillologists and I think it would be safe to say that there is no legislation or executive order for the flag described.

Another erroneous source goes on to say that the Civilian flag should have Blue stars on white, not vice versa, and shows the stars arranged in a pattern identical to the current 50 star American flag established in 1960. If as he claims the Civil flag has been out of use since the 1860s, then, lacking the enabling legislation, the pattern should have been stopped at 33 or 35 stars. He also states that prior to WW II, states only flew their own flags. This is simply not true. If the states were as sovereign as he is trying to indicate, state flags would have been in use since 1776, where in truth for most states no state flag existed until the late 19th century, 100 years after The Revolution.

In short, other than as a footnote of erroneous concepts and faulty research, the flag described has no place on the FOTW website.

Nathan Bliss, 28 July 1999

I found this article about the civilian flag thought I would post it.

reply to post by lpowell0627

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nationalism is bloody! theres no getting around that.

Canada may be the only exception

reply to post by Big Oil

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Here is another excellent article:

Through usage and custom, horizontal stripes had become adopted for use over military posts, and vertical stripes adopted for use over civilian establishments. The Civil Flag, intended for peacetime usage in custom house civilian settings, had vertical stripes with blue stars on a white field. By the Law of the Flag, this design denoted civil jurisdiction under the Constitution and common law as opposed to military jurisdiction under admiralty/military law.

Although intended just for Customs house usage, the new Civil Flag became adopted by both customhouses and merchants, and others who could afford them, to show their civilian nature and not under military control. The practice of using the Customs Flag as a Civil Flag became encoded in law in 1874 when Treasury Secretary William. A. Richardson required all customhouses to display the Civil Flag.

www.barefootsworld.net...

www.fotw.net...

In the July 1936 National Geographic Magazine, I found a photo of the Sons of Liberty Flag of Boston flown in the 1760s to protest colonial treatment. The photo shows the flag displayed flat and its 9 alternate red and white vertical stripes are clearly visible. The flag is displayed today at the Old State House in Boston, folded, in a controlled environment case.
Dave Martucci, 2 December 1999

I should note that the nine stripes of the vertical Sons of Liberty flag represented the nine protesting colonies that participated in the Stamp Act Congress of 1765. The nine colonies represented are: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, and South Carolina. However, this list is not historically significant in that participation was limited by the short notice given and that afterward the Assemblies of the four other colonies agreed to support the work of the Congress.
Richard Knipel, 11 July 2004

The flag of the Sons of Liberty prior to the American Revolution consisted of 9 vertical red and white stripes. "The four white and five red stripes were symbolic of '45' the number of the pamphlet published in 1763 by the English civil-rights activist John Wilkes, whose influence on the American revolutionary movement was second only to Tom Paine's 'Common Sense.' ... Later, the symbolism of '9' came to apply to the nine states represented at the adoption of the Constitution on September 17, 1787 - and also the nine states which ratified it into existence."

Source: Mastai, The Stars and the Stripes, [mas73]
Randy Young, 2 August 2001
.

Some info on the Sons of Liberty Flag. Seems it was nothing more than red and white strips no starts or eagles.

Originally posted by feedpeopletosharks
reply to post by Big Oil

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i've always thought of the stars on the US flag as the bullet holes, and the red stripes the blood of the innocent that they had to shed in order to form this country.

truly we are a nation that was formed on genocide. i wonder how things will turn out for us.

Originally posted by feedpeopletosharks
reply to post by Big Oil

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i've always thought of the stars on the US flag as the bullet holes, and the red stripes the blood of the innocent that they had to shed in order to form this country.

truly we are a nation that was formed on genocide. i wonder how things will turn out for us.

Perhaps we are reaping what was sown long ago.

reply to post by Big Oil

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I learn something from You every time

I have never seen that flag before.S&F

reply to post by feedpeopletosharks

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let's not just accept that socialism has been all-good ever. i'm not a nationalist, but i'm trying to see the difference on some issues...

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