Reading the board today I was stuck by several unrelated references to "eight years" of 9/11 research and the Truth movement.

I actually found this rather poignant. It represents millions of hours of work and effort, weeks and months spent poring over complex data, discussing, arguing, writing. Significant proportions of people's lives, really.

But what has the movement actually achieved, in a concrete sense? Several large-scale lobbying organisations have been set up. I imagine some people have made some money from books they've published. But to what extent have the central ideas of the Truth movement been able to cross over into mainstream acceptance?

My feeling is that - contrary to the notion of one poster here, who believes that "billions" of people support the Truth movement - the gains of the various campaigns and individuals have been pretty miserable. Certainly in the UK the majority of the public would be unaware even of something as basic to the 9/11 alternative story as, say, Building Seven. Broad acceptance, or even familiarity, with the more extraordinarly claims of some of the movement remains very far off.

And yet there are areas where some success has occured. Significant numbers in Middle Eastern societies seem to at least doubt the core tenets of mainstream 9/11 history. But this is perhaps less to do with the efforts of the truth movement per se, and largely because the claims of the movement dovetail with the sensibilities of those societies and the goals of their leaders. Still, it could be seen as progress.

On a recent visit to the US - and this is purely anecdotal evidence - I felt that I met a few more people who questioned the events of 9/11. There are more documentaries and examinations in mainstream media, and even though most are hostile to the ideas of the Truth movement, at least they suggest that the subject is being brought to a wider audience.

My question really, then, is threefold.

-- To what extent has the Truth movement succeeded or failed?

-- Why has it performed as badly (or as well) as it has?

-- How can it do better in the future?

[edit on 22-9-2009 by TrickoftheShade]

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Hi mate, good questions!

My question really, then, is threefold.

-- To what extent has the Truth movement succeeded or failed?

I think it's a marathon not a sprint, slowly but surely the world is taking note. There is more of an impact being made outside the US which is understandable. But infighting, and A LOT of disinfo isn't helping. By disinfo I mean crazy theories that harm rather than help, and HOAXES from a certain AJ help not a bit too!

-- Why has it performed as badly (or as well) as it has?

As I said, disinfo, hoaxes and crazy theories, plus sometimes the truth hurts, nobody wants to believe their government murdered their own citizens! ANd shear brainwashing by TPTB on a stupid public! Lets watch TV and Porn instead of using our brains!

-- How can it do better in the future?

Wea re dealing with government agencies/programmes and established mindsets that will take decades to destroy, as I said it's a marathon, just keep the faith, and keep plugging away, I think.

S+F mate, will watch keenly for other responses!

[edit on 22-9-2009 by kiwifoot]

This is just my opinion.

I believe the Truth movement has succeeded only in helping to marginalize people who question the "accepted facts". Sadly the truth movement has been hijacked by the more extreme theories and this has hurt them badly.

Personally I don't know the truth about what happened on 9/11 - what I am convinced of is that it didnt' happen like "they" said it did. The truth movement should have stuck to that, concentrated on that, not "no planes", or "remote control planes" or "holographs".

People who question 9/11 are lumped in with people who think Elvis is still alive, and THAT is the major failing of the movement.

It's my hope that one day the truth, whatever that may be, will come out, but it's my feeling that we will never truely know.

I disagree that some exposure, even if negative and hostile, is better than no exposure.

I think the movement has brought an awareness to all people that would not be there today from any other event in history.

It has given the "truthers" a conscience in how facts must be represented ans it has given skeptics reason to truly question things for themselves.

We have a happy medium where truthers are brought up to the political arena and the skeptics down to street level.

The one test for humanity lies ahead and every day presents new packages of data from current affairs that must be debated by both sides, actively. Each lie or fact told now brings a torrent of speculation from both sides. A public jury that forms a mass opinion that is truly non biased.

Now, more than ever, humanity on all sides and all factions within are wide awake.

9/11 was the catalyst for truly revolutionary debate.

One thing we can all agree on: WE WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN.

It has prooved how powerfull the media is at controlling people, and how we are little sheep in a big bad world err game...

Originally posted by Atlantican
I think the movement has brought an awareness to all people that would not be there today from any other event in history.

It has given the "truthers" a conscience in how facts must be represented ans it has given skeptics reason to truly question things for themselves.

We have a happy medium where truthers are brought up to the political arena and the skeptics down to street level.

The one test for humanity lies ahead and every day presents new packages of data from current affairs that must be debated by both sides, actively. Each lie or fact told now brings a torrent of speculation from both sides. A public jury that forms a mass opinion that is truly non biased.

Now, more than ever, humanity on all sides and all factions within are wide awake.

9/11 was the catalyst for truly revolutionary debate.

One thing we can all agree on: WE WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN.

I partly agree, in the sense that the Truth movement has helped foster a hunger for data and a mindset that questions public utterances and "official" pronouncements. I do think that this is a trend that has been going on for some time though, and 9/11 Truth and the internet have only been one facet of it.

But I'm afraid I totally disagree about how widespread that attitude is, especially with regard to 9/11. Indeed that's really the point of my post. The febrile atmosphere you describe - the public jury of mass opinion - doesn't really exist as far as I can see; really it is confined to a few websites like this with occassional forays into the mainstream.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
My question really, then, is threefold.

-- To what extent has the Truth movement succeeded or failed?

-- Why has it performed as badly (or as well) as it has?

-- How can it do better in the future?

Your questions are all really one and the same, once you think about it. The biggest and by far the most glaring failure of the truther movement is that they fail to realize that if the truthers don't agree with the official account, then it's their responsibility to supply us with an alternative answer which better fits all the facts, and all they've managed to do is give us more questions than answers. If you think it was controlled demolitions, okay, fine, tell us how they got all those thousands of tons of explosives into the buildign without anyone noticing. Who was responsible? Why did they do it in the first place? How the heck did they get the planes to crash into the buildings? They never give us a suitable explanation, and the reason is obvious to us- they simply don't know. It's obvious they're trying to connect the dots to intentionally form a picture of a conspiracy, but there are still a hell of a lot of dots they're missing. For one thing, why the heck would these conspirators want to frame that toilet of a country of Afghanistan, rather than Iraq?

Becuase they don't know, it opens the door to too much absurd speculation and allows all the outright crackpots to enter. When the mainstream public hears that you think the planes were all holograms, or that the towers were destroyed by energy beams from outer space, they're naturally going to think you're bonkers. Accusing everyone from the NYFD to NIST to the boy scouts of being accomplices to the master conspiracy doesn't help your cause, either.

If you want to get somewhere with yoru conspiracy stories other than, well, nowhere, you're going to need to do the following-

A) give us a COMPLETE picture of what happened. Don't just flesh out the sexy sounding parts you want to talk about, give us explanations for everything. For example, why the heck would the gov't ever stage a fake crash site in Shanksville only to cover up the fake crash site they made? Why can't it be an actual crash site?

B) Rein in the crackpots in your ranks. I'm sorry, but someone claiming the 9/11 attack was staged by a secret cult of satan worshippers in a long line of conspiracies going all the way back to the Knights Templar is only going to make the rest of the truthers look bad. How can you not understand that?

C) The truthers also need to realize that we're NOT goosestepping sheep to any new world order propaganda, or whetever excuse it is you're using to soothe your bruised egos from not being able to get anywhere. The truth is, we know the entire world is chock full of con artists selling shares in Nigerian fortunes, Australian lotteries, fad diets that let you eat like a horse and still lose weight, etc, and the moment you say "everything we know is wrong and you'll tell us the truth for $19.95" we're naturally going to think you're one of them. If you're having problems overcoming this scepticism then you need to realize the problem isn't with us, the problem is with you, and you need to modify the approach you're using accordingly.

Ignore this at your own cost.

Well, Well, Well.....

Its about time some one has asked this question. One poster is right. All of your questions lead to one, "What has the 911 trueth movement" accomplished.

From my point of view, a new york city resident who lost family and friends in the attacks....

I can go many ways here, but, I must tread lightly due to previous treatment from the "mods" and "truethers".

This is why the "trueth movement" will never get anywhere;

-- your story changes all the time - you don't have one or any facts at all. the whole movement is made up of pure conjecture, pure fantasy


-- your head guy "Avery" couldn't get laid in a whore house with a fist full of 100's - by this I mean he is an unbelievable and an unlikeable person. he reeks of lies......and distortion - and I challange him to a stand up fight - mano a mano anywhere any place any time. I'll go a step further, he can bring a bat, knife, gun - anything and I'll still kick his ass.....he reminds me of the kid who picked his nose in high school and had no friends - not even other geeks would play with him.

-- the people who started this have sold all kinds of crap to those who are ignorant and made millions doing it - how much did avery make off his video?????????

-- you dismiss the every single piece of evidence from the REAL EXPERTS un like yours who have gotten their degrees from the inside of a cracker-jack-box....case in point - the eve of the national geographic special your "guys" were there watching and when given the opportunity to ask a question to the guy who conducted the experiments - your "guys" couldn't form a coherent sentence

-- Here's the 64 million dollar question,
HOW MANY PEOPLE DID THIS TAKE? AND HOW COME NO ONE'S COME FORWARD TO RAT EVERYONE OUT?????

Now, in defense of that statement, I give you Sammy the Bull Gravano - who ratted out the Gotti family - he had it all...and he gave it away to stay out of jail....

Also,,,,,

Former President Bill Clinton - could not keep quiet that Monica went "down" on him in the oval office.

You "truethers" want us to believe that the US government who can't run social security, medicaid, the post office, cash for clunkers - is capable of keeping 100's if not 1000's of people who were supposedly involved in this nightmare, quiet????????

I'm laughing at the "trueth movement".

I could go on for days, I mean I read some stupid thread about "super thermite"....what a joke. Some one actually said this was painted on the beams 40 freak'n years ago....lmafo!!!!

The other theory I like is the Holographic planes....I mean this is not the 24th century and there is no holodeck for us to go on......pure fantasy.

I can't.....This is why your doomed to failure...much like ATS, oh yes, it will get bigger, but, it's like the X files - how many times can we tune in to see the same nonsense and there are no answers, no resolutions, no real facts.

The only thing you got going for you, is, it's very entertaining.

I don't think the 9/11 truth movement has achieved it's objectives, which are mainly to bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice. But that doesn't mean that it hasn't achieved anything.

Here are some achievements:

1. It has shown quite a few people that 9/11 was an inside job of some description. It is not completely clear how many were on the inside of this job.

2. It has shone a bright light on liars in power and the lesser liars they hire to legitimize their lies.

3. It has made America, the Aggressor Nation, into a star of stage and screen, where up to now, that role received virtually no attention in America and the West as a whole.

4. It has clearly shown the mainstream media to be a bought and paid for tool of the ruling oligarchy in the United States, and by corollary, has shown most of those trusted earnest handsome and beautiful faces who tell us what is going on every night to be hollow frauds.

5. It has shown that congress has no backbone and can be pushed around at will by anyone with an envelope full of anthrax spores.

6. It has shown that the American people have no regard whatsoever for the constitution of their country, a precious document drafted generations earlier by men who were founders of the country and who were giants of their age, and have allowed it to be savaged by a half-wit whose daddy bought him everything he ever had in life.

7. It has shown a disturbing picture of the American people. They are similar to the Germans under Naziism. Every flavour of either opposition or collaboration can be shown among them. Is it possible that every country's population is like this? I think so. That might be the most horrifying achievement of the 9/11 truth movement.

An interesting sidelight to this last bit is that war crimes are not war crimes in America when America is commiting them. Had Germany won the war Churchill and Roosevelt and Stalin wouild have been hung like Saddam Hussein and not a word would have been said about extermination camps. We are living that "what if" right now, if you can stomach it. Without 9/11 truth we would never know.

It's given us a window into the horror of our time.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by ipsedixit]

That's an extraordinarily rosy view of 9/11 Truth. Do you really think that the Truth movement is solely responsible for insight into the cynicism and venality of the US's foreign policy?

I know lots of people who are disgusted by the aggression and imperialism that America has visited on other countries but don't believe any aspect of 9/11 "Truth". Indeed one has only had to turn on the news or read a paper to see Guantanamo Bay, the horrors of Iraq and Aghanistan, rendition and so on.

To suggest that the Truth movement is somehow integral to this or that without it these crimes would have gone unnoticed is a huge stretch.

I can't believe there has been 8 responses and ot one person has mentioned the #1 achievement of the 9/11 truth movement.

We have exposed...

FALSE FLAG BLACK OPERATIONS and how they are used to erode our liberties, wage perpetual wars for profit and embark on population, and resource control.

Attack yourself blame an enemy oldest trick in the book. Yet until i started learning of 9/11 i never gave it any thought.

TPTB were lazy on 9/11 because the internet was still rather simple when the event happened and they knew they controlled the media and no one would even have footage except for tv news and or the occasional commemorative dvd.

Then in 2005 a thing called YOUTUBE came out and people could upload all sorts of footage that they caught themselves and they could share it at a rapid pace all over the world.

We took the control from them.

We know about False Flags and have since learned of Gulf of Tonkin and the USS Liberty, so let them try that crap again and lets see how well it works for em

Originally posted by Beefcake
I can't believe there has been 8 responses and ot one person has mentioned the #1 achievement of the 9/11 truth movement.

We have exposed...

FALSE FLAG BLACK OPERATIONS and how they are used to erode our liberties, wage perpetual wars for profit and embark on population, and resource control.

No, you haven't. You made accusations of false flag operations. Yoou've exposed absolutely nothing, other than the sheer gullibility of people in believing anythign and everythign they read on the internet.

Just becuase someone typed up a web page claiming the moon landing was staged, it doesn't mean the moon landing really was staged, you know.