Don't stop panda extinction, page 2
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reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 11:17 AM by CosmicEgg
reply to post by wayno


Do you really not know that they have had to show pandas film of pandas going at it to encourage them to get down to it themselves? They had no inclination otherwise. There are lots more like this...

I trust the rest of you knew about this. It's a method they've used for some years now because nothing else worked.


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 12:33 PM by Clickfoot
Originally posted by Now_Then
But to say that they survived X amount of time - and coincidently we are here now to debate it? It's just a point in time... I would not mind if there was a Panda paradise that co-existed with the rest of the world, but it don't seem that there is... You snooze you loose, you can't always blame people - after all we have to grow.

You absolutely can blame people, because people are to blame. The hunting of Pandas, primarily for their skins, played a big part, on top of the destruction of their habitat. As I said, they were doing just fine on their own.

Because of pollution and destruction of their natural habitat, along with segregation due to caging, reproduction of wild pandas was severely limited. In the 1990s, however, several laws (including gun control and the removal of resident humans from the reserves) helped the chances of survival for pandas. With these renewed efforts and improved conservation methods, wild pandas have started to increase in numbers in some areas, even though they still are classified as a rare species.


Originally posted by CosmicEgg
Do you really not know that they have had to show pandas film of pandas going at it to encourage them to get down to it themselves?

Pandas lose interest in mating while in captivity. To understand why you need to read up on how they act in the wild. Also, relatively low birth rate in the wild, as compared to other animals, ensures they have enough to eat to survive. It works if they're left alone, it just takes longer to build up the numbers.


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 01:59 PM by Gemwolf
reply to post by Now_Then


You're missing my point. You keep focussing just on Pandas. Yes, pandas are pretty pointless. They're big and cuddly. Big whoop.

My point is - if we give up on Pandas, then we'll give up on the next species as well. Next on the list are tigers... Tigers are the pinnacle of predatory evolution in Asia aka an apex predator. They were far from extinction until man put gunpowder in its way. How does gunpowder fit in with "evolution"?

We can go easily go down the list of endangered animals and we'll soon see that very few - if any animals deserve to be on the list. Rhinos, elephants, cheetahs, whales, gorillas... Are any of these “weak” animals that deserve to go extinct because it’s “survival of the fittest”?

Yes, any species will eventually die out. It's the circle of life. But the panda wouldn't have been there this soon if it wasn't for us. We're responsible for their demise; we may just as well take responsibility for our actions.

Since when is it human nature to just throw our arms up in the air and give up?


[edit on 22-9-2009 by Gemwolf]


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 04:44 PM by CosmicEgg
reply to post by Gemwolf


It's not giving up. It's a done deed. We've forced Nature to move aside for us. We might think we're solving the problem, we might think we can, with the miracle of our sooperdooper brain and our magnificent opposable thumb, just patch up whatever little messes we make of this planet. But we can't. Nature has rules and we've fuxxed it up. We can't get enough over ourselves in time to save much of anything anymore. Our squabbling is going to do us in. At the end of the day, it's all due to the fact that we just don't get it. We don't.

At present, the birds are being messed up by our city lights. We've stolen their habitat and moved them into smaller and smaller areas that cause no end of problems for them, but dammit we need our street lights because there are marauding bands of dangerous folk out there ready to harm us for our car or tv or child or just because they're bored.

Humans are the problem. There's only one fix for that, my dear friends. Nature will have her balance restored, like it or not. She doesn't care about a few extinct species. That's an ego thing and she has none of that going on. That's a human trait.


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 05:06 PM by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by LiveForever8


While their point is valid, wasting millions on raising the animals in captivity, and releasing them into the wild is not the answer, somewhere in the translation, it is being missed, that millions are being wasted, and I fail to see how that is the Panda, or the tiger's fault in any way whatsoever.

The failure is on man, and man alone, encroaching on the wild habitat of any animal to the point of extinction, we as a race should be ashamed of ourselves, but we are not, I know I am not, not for the same reason as most, because I was raised to respect wild animals, keep my distance from them, and if an encounter was to happen I was taught how to deal with it and walk away, but those useless eaters, those harmful, foul and wholly unsavory, selfish individuals who would put up a mall, or a parking garage and wipe out a species, they are to blame.

Next to blame are those people who scream for the malls and parking garages, and lay to waste an entire ecosystem and habitat for their selfish desires and wants.

I prefer the way the Native Americans and Aborigines were a part of their environment, not a hindrance to it like the white man and their selfish race.

Why is it that society fails to see it is responsible for the demise of these animals?

I abhor zoos and any facility that holds animals in captivity.

Even the ones where an animals is hurt, and rehabilitated, they offend me and my sense of honor.

Wasting millions, really, on what, for animals that had a home, and it was stolen from them.

No, I do not believe in zoos, if you want to see the wild animals, learn to live in their environment, do not expect them to live in yours for your selfish, bastardization of their lives, because once you cage a wild animal, it dies inside.

Original Quote by SKL

I fail to see how man's mismanagement of fiscal finances is somehow the blame of the wild animals these organizations claim they are trying to assist.

Since when did wild animals learn about the calculator, budgets, and profits verses losses?

The real predators are not those loose on the Serengeti, they are loose in the board rooms and their flagrant rape of your willing wallet is where their killing fields are really located.

The prey these salaciously criminal bastards hunt is the easily stroked and over-inflated ego, the extra heavy wallet, and the guile blinded ignorant fool who will give to a cause because it is good social manners, and belonging to an organization that deceives their sense of belonging to something more important than themselves when they are really only perpetuating the needless spending on that benefit that we drove towards necessity.




[edit on 22-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 11:14 PM by CosmicEgg
reply to post by D.E.M.


Yeah, I used to cry those same tears, my friend. Please bear in mind that there are species that lived and died long before we arrived on the scene. It's what we call "evolution". Just because it was doesn't mean it will always be. It's great to realize that we are destroying our planet and that we have no right to do so, but you can't save them just to save them. It requires that their habitat be returned to them. Our noise has to stop. We need to learn to tread gently on our beloved Earth.


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 11:18 PM by zazzafrazz
reply to post by LiveForever8


They've gotten down to numbers because of human intervention through deforretsation, agriculture and hunting. Like all animal populaitons we are destroying due to our virus-like existence.
Poor pandas, that dude is a nasty pasty!

Steve Irwin would be turnign in his grave. We need a new envirmental warrior that understands the animal chain.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by zazzafrazz]


reply posted on 22-9-2009 @ 11:44 PM by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Gemwolf




We can go easily go down the list of endangered animals and we'll soon see that very few - if any animals deserve to be on the list. Rhinos, elephants, cheetahs, whales, gorillas... Are any of these “weak” animals that deserve to go extinct because it’s “survival of the fittest”?t


UMM GEM gotta disagree with you here bud.
Are we saying that strength is the only qualification for existence?
All life contributes to the planet, and Im not just talking food for stronger species. Poop, counts too
All life is rquired not just human, and humans are taking over in a non sustainable manner.


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 01:19 AM by Gemwolf
reply to post by zazzafrazz


I agree with you 100%.

It was a rhetorical question. I asked that question because Now_Then basically said pandas are weak and deserve to go extinct:

Would that help? - They eat bamboo, they take ages to digest it for very little energy, they have to live where there are very few predators because they are a sitting target - evolutionary speaking they painted them selves into a corner a very very long time ago.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


My point was (with that quote) that some of the strongest animals are on the endangered species list... Being weak has nothing to do with the "evolution" of a species going extinct (in this case).


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 01:26 AM by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Gemwolf


OOOPPS
I even reread your statement LOL! cause I thought hang on that cant be right?
Ill put it down to the Sydney dust storm in my eyes making me see silly things.
As for Now_Then, I am going to assume that he is being his usually cheeky self, he claims to do things like staple his cat, or panfry it to get a rise....
Naughty NT!



reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 11:19 AM by Voxel
Originally posted by Gemwolf
reply to post by zazzafrazz

My point was (with that quote) that some of the strongest animals are on the endangered species list... Being weak has nothing to do with the "evolution" of a species going extinct (in this case).


That is because by using the term "strongest" you are missing the entire point of evolution. Strength, on a species-wide basis, is a measure of the ability for a life form to adapt to changes in their environment.

Everyone on this thread that is lamenting the fate of the panda because of the changes we have brought to their habitat should take a look out their window at the species that live - nay, thrive - among the massive changes humans have made to their habitat.

For every dead-end species, like the panda, that our actions thankfully purge from the gene-pool there are other species, like squirrels, that absolutely thrive as a result of our change.

I bet if you ask the humble squirrel outside my window right now, he wouldn't want the foxes that were driven out by human hunters back in my area. So when we engage in "conservation" which species do should we seek to benefit and why do we act like we care about that only a few species exclusively?

Jon


reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 11:34 AM by Wertdagf
reply to post by Gemwolf


removing pandas is not a house of cards.... unfortuantaly no one will notice.

UNLESS.... the bamboo was an dangerous creature kept in check by the amazing and intelligent panda?!?!?!?!

Thats right! This time instead of a volcanoe or a meteor... or any one of the other many natural geological disasters that have erased the other 99.9% of life that has existed on earth, ITS HUMANS!!!!

And we should feel guilty.. but it was bound to happen and in the long run we will add pandas to the list thats 10000x longer than the one of currently surviving species.

Live and learn.
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