USA. Love it or leave it. =)

I'm Trying to leave...

I wish I had more money or I would be long gone by now.

Also... it's kind of hard to leave when every other country on the globe has strict citizenship laws in this post 9/11 world we live in.

BTW... I love America.

I once heard a 9/11 victim's family member say something along the lines of this: "God Blessed America, God blessed America over and over and over....... and look at what we did with it."

reply to post by stevegmu


Incorrect. Nationalism is disguised as patriotism. What we have in the UK is what happens when patriotism is taken to the extreme.

reply to post by stevegmu

Patriotism has nothing to do with aggression.

True, but it could be used to incite the masses into being aggresive.

because we do what other's are incapable, or unwilling to do; what needs to be done.

What is that exactly? Police the world?
Did we even ask them?
What does need to be done again? Incite hate and fear?

We free people from sadistic dictators.

I see now. Because thats what we're told we're doing. Got it.

What they choose to do with that freedom isn't on us.

It is if it's our version of freedom we brought with us.
This despite ourselves.
Of course I'm speaking as a typical americant,
I just want the oil for my race car!
I cant have any less.

reply to post by dodadoom


Bravo.

I gotta wonder. Since when was it our duty to send our men and women to other peoples countries to "rescue" them from sadistic dictators? Shouldn't we be more concerned with cleaning our own laundry first.

reply to post by quackers


No, actually, it is what happens when a large amount of intolerant immigrants are welcomed in, put on the dole, and demand the proper citizens conform to them.

reply to post by rogerstigers


If it suits out best interest, we can kill two birds with one stone.

reply to post by rogerstigers

Because we dont care about our own.
Hence the health care debate.
They are just lazy that they dont have a job.
Besides it will just cost me more in taxes!
Nope I cant and wont go there.
Not even for a peek.

Besides our laundry is squeaky clean!
We use tide!

[edit on 22-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Cuba warmly welcomes Americans who would like to seek asylum. You can probably find a cheap flight if you go through Toronto or Montreal.

reply to post by stevegmu

If it suits out best interest, we can kill two birds with one stone.

And we just enjoy killing I know! Another good point!
www.abovetopsecret.com...
As well the immigration problem is a mess!
Interesting when we allow immigrants here,
but so many countries dont' allow americans to immigrate there.
Especially countries that are considered muslim. Go figure.



[edit on 22-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by stevegmu

Patriotism in England is almost akin to a hate crime. It seems many Europeans have this one-world mentality of collectivism, where 'too much' patriotism is a bad thing. The main reason for my belief, is that most of those who denounce American patriotism are Europeans.

Interesting stuff that.

Are you saying it is OK for Europeans to be patriotic, but not Americans?

I didn't even hint at it.

peace


[edit on 22-9-2009 by silo13]

reply to post by silo13


You did say Europeans are patriotic folk. It seems most of those who are so vocal on internet forums denouncing American patriotism are European. Either they have a problem with patriotism in general, or just American patriotism.

reply to post by quackers


No. Your wrong.

Why dont you respond to the wiki article I posted last page?

Patriotism depending on context has nothing to do with nationalism.

Your looking to divide and use straw man arguments.

My patriotism to the idea that is America holds you and your rights under its umbrella of liberty and freedom. Until you can acknowledge that then you are no better than the person who want to jump up and down screaming their country is the greatest on earth. It is ideas that unite people. Having a pride in that is not only healthy but also contageous in a way that is advantageous to liberty itself. Again, it is the idea that is important.

You called the founding fathers of America zealots. A gross overstatement and hardly accurate. An obvious sign of either ignorance or chosen spite of your fellow man. You may not get it, but there is so much todays world could learn from the founding fathers of America...

You also called them racist bigots. Again. Your wrong. Heres my evidence:

1776 June. (Draft of Declaration of Independence). "He [George III] has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piractical warfare, the opprobium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against lives of another."[4]

1777 June 16. (Bill to Prevent the Importation of Slaves). "To prevent more effectually the practice of holding persons in Slavery and importing them into this State Be it enacted by the General Assembly that all persons who shall be hereafter imported into this Commonwealth by Sea of by Land...shall from thenceforth become free and absolutely exempted from all Slavery or Bondage...That it shall and may be lawful for any person...to manumit and set at Liberty any Slave or Slaves to which they are entitled..."[5]

1777-1779. (Revisal of Virginia Laws-Jefferson's emancipation plan). "The bill reported by the revisors does not itself contain this proposition; but an amendment containing it was prepared, to be offered to the legislature whenever the bill should be taken up, and further directing, that they should continue with their parents to a certain age, then be brought up, at the public expence, to tillage, arts or sciences, according to their geniusses, till the females should be eighteen, and the males twenty‑one years of age, when they should be colonized to such place as the circumstances of the time should render most proper, sending them out with arms, implements of houshold and of the handicraft arts, seeds, pairs of the useful domestic animals, &c. to declare them a free and independant people, and extend to them our alliance and protection, till they shall have acquired strength...."[6]

1781. (Notes on the State of Virginia). "In the very first session held under the republican government, the assembly passed a law for the perpetual prohibition of the importation of slaves. This will in some measure stop the increase of this great political and moral evil, while the minds of our citizens may be ripening for a complete emancipation of human nature."[7]

Thomas Jefferson

edit to clarify

[edit on 22-9-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I couldn't of said it myself any better.

Thanks.

=)

reply to post by open_eyeballs

Likewise.
I saw your post and couldnt agree more.
Reminds me of the way we get spirituality and religion mixed up!
Or greed and ambition.....

I'm just glad I'm not the only one to see the difference!
Thanks for the post big time!
I would have brought it up sooner or later but you said
and showed it best!
Hopefully it will be starred by not just me! Thanks again!



[edit on 22-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by dodadoom


Absolutely. Those are great examples of the same thing that is happening here. Rubber ducky just wanted to get a rise out of people. I doubt he even believes some of the things he said, and if he does it just highlights his short comings.

It also says something that he wont acknowledge rational argument and only decides to engage those that are polar opposite of his views.

Here's a link to James Clavell's "The Children's Story".

The Children's Story

It would be real easy for this to happen. I could say more in response to certain peoples in this thread but I would rather not argue. Just read the story, it's very short and should make anyone think, I would hope.

Maybe this is kinda sorta not the topic (late, tired, read OP twice and don't really get any point from it)...

...but what infuriates me is one American telling another American to leave America if they express an opposing opinion. It seems to me this has become more prevalent over the last decade and is a very sad commentary on the state of Americans' inability to work together to solve a problem...any problem...or even have a civil debate.

If I criticize a particular thing (i.e. the elective war in Iraq) or am not proud of our actions as a world citizen (i.e. allowing children here to go hungry while feeding children elsewhere), or say something seems to better executed elsewhere (health care), if my concerns, proposed solutions, thoughts are different than yours, if I refuse to recite some empty antiquated words, you want me out of the country? Really?

Wow.

reply to post by quackers



"So when you stand up, and you pledge your allegiance, just what are you pledging your allegiance to? If you are proud to be an American, then you are a very sick individual indeed."

No sorry, I don't believe that at all. I will admit to some things not being optimum about this country, But when I look elsewhere I see nothing any better. Oddly enough, I have found those who are critical of America will tell you the same.

You are way off the mark in your generalization of "to be proud of America is to be sick". And is an extremist view.

Maybe people are confusing American Government with American People?

I truly left the USA 4 years ago due to Government and obvious imbalance in the economy.
The government was running amok, still is, no controls or supervision, the Feds sending trillions overseas to secret accounts, nobody asking why...legislators are not doing their jobs, but making the situation worse

It was a bit silly to be extending 125% mortgages to value of the property, and people able to buy houses with absolutely no money of their own involved. I left because it was obvious the country was about to pay for its excesses in a terrible manner.
Moved to China, love it here, lots of Expats from North America, Europe, pretty much the world.



Love the American people and American Ideals, but ideals are being sacrificed on the alter of passivity and comfort. Nobody wants to get bloody any longer.

Patriotism has never been a comfortable position, it is hard, tough and bloody perspective. Anyone spouting patriotism from the comfort of a recliner should be called out a scoundrel, they dilute the true patriots that built the USA.

Maybe the USA will recover to its prestige..but that will require Americans to work together towards a common purpose.

reply to post by quackers


Honestly, I would be ashamed to even admit I was from the UK.

Renegade, intolerant, immigrant, Muslims are imposing there will in the UK right now. They are trashing a way of life which some of your countrymen have died for. And somehow you think you have bragging rights? Give me a break!

The United Kingdom at this very moment is a perfect example of all the reasons a country should preserve it's patriotism and nationalism