USA. Love it or leave it. =), page 2

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by midnightbrigade

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How is this american message board? I know it's located there, but please explain

He may have met english speaking....either way, pretty ignorant comment in and of itself. Don't fret my international friends, we're not all fat and lazy, and most of us love you like the brothers and sisters of this planet that you are...kill this squabble where it stands people.

*edit*
and for the record, when people outside of the U.S. blame us all for the wars, ignorance, racism, fatness, etc etc etc. you are forgetting one important fact: OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN HIJACKED ALONG WITH THE MEDIA. That's like blaming the hijacked passengers on one of the planes in 9/11 for being in the plane when it hit the building. Sure, maybe we could have stopped it, maybe they could have, hindsight is almost always 20/20. The only important factor I believe we need to recognize is that humanity stands united behind the movie screen that is the world's political, military and media bullsh-t.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by VirginiaGreen]

reply to post by quackers

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ATS owners are American. The site is hosted here, the servers are here. That makes it an American site with international users.

Don't come in here spouting broad generalizations about American people. You would be upset if I started spouting about your people instead of speaking on specific grievances of the few.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by quackers

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It is actually people like you talk crap about Americans that make people like me have a general disliking for non-Americans. This pertains mostly to the internet, however. With the exception of the French, most of the people I have met throughout the world have been very pleasant. Perhaps they simply didn't have the courage to insult Americans face-to-face, however.

Well said.

reply to post by VirginiaGreen

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When talking about a nation, one must generalize. I lived on the west coast for over 10 years, though many would argue that they are all slightly retarded anyway and not representative of the rest of the nation.

Of course there are plenty of great folk in America, but no one cares about them, they are not the image that America presents to the wider world. That image is well deserved, and the reason why people in America cannot see why it is deserved, is patriotism. The "we can do no wrong" attitude.

I make no apology for my remarks, it is up to the individual to decide whether it applies to them, for many it won't, some however, well, they make themselves known.

Originally posted by quackers
reply to post by VirginiaGreen

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When talking about a nation, one must generalize. I lived on the west coast for over 10 years, though many would argue that they are all slightly retarded anyway and not representative of the rest of the nation.

Of course there are plenty of great folk in America, but no one cares about them, they are not the image that America presents to the wider world. That image is well deserved, and the reason why people in America cannot see why it is deserved, is patriotism. The "we can do no wrong" attitude.

I make no apology for my remarks, it is up to the individual to decide whether it applies to them, for many it won't, some however, well, they make themselves known.

Word up brother. I wouldn't call the West coasters retarded, just different. You also must realize that much of the way the world sees us is through THEIR (your) media. Our media is crap too. All of this just returns to the original point that we are all individuals, and that trying to generalize and pile everyone into one category just tends to be ignorant and piss a lot of people off in the process. I see what you are saying though, it seems as those you are referring to would be the most likely to come on here and argue about it. I'm done here. Much peace and respect to all of you.

reply to post by rogerstigers

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I know I would be if they saw my browser history..lol What on earth have we become?

As Spock once said, we are a primitve and paranoid culture!

And, greed and materialism happened.
But not exactly sure when.
Or why.


[edit on 21-9-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by quackers

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Although patriotism is used in certain vernaculars as a synonym for nationalism, nationalism is not necessarily considered an inherent part of patriotism.[2][3] Among the ancient Greeks, patriotism consisted of notions concerning language, religious traditions, ethics, law and devotion to the common good, rather than pure identification with a nation-state.[4][5] Scholar J. Peter Euben writes that for the Greek philosopher Socrates, "patriotism does not require one to agree with everything that his country does and would actually promote analytical questioning in a quest to make the country the best it possibly can be."[6]

What you are doing is equating nationalism with patriotism.

Yes the definitions are similar, but as the wikipedia article indicates there is a distinction between the two.

Those of us who feel a patriotism to the wisdom and liberties injected into Americas through our constitution could easily be considered to have a humanist attitude.

You are trying to generalize most Americasn as nationistic. Sure there are those of us who have been indoctrinated from birth into that style of thought. And in many ways nationalism is foolish, but again this is hardly a unique attribute of Americans. Since before feudalism gave way to the current political orders and even before (Roman times) nationalism has played a role in just about every power/nation that has ever emerged united.

So, again, the way you came off was very ignorant, and just keep in mind the next time you decide to point your finger at others... theres three others pointing back at you.

reply to post by stevegmu

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Good point.
When you're ready to hurt or kill over a childish game,
you should know you probably are one.

And one reason why we're probably ALL screwed eventually.
It only takes one 'mad' person.

reply to post by stevegmu

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There is nothing wrong with having an affinity with your birthplace, or whatever. But that is not the point of patriotism. Patriotism is designed to instil the sort of aggression displayed in this thread when another person states a dislike or flaw in what is otherwise a belief system. The United States is seen as an aggressive nation, and it is a fact that it is an aggressive nation. Patriotism makes people aggressive, and they have kindly proved that for me here. But you see they do not see it as aggression, they see it as being patriotic.

reply to post by stevegmu

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What I find interesting, is that many Europeans have a dislike or distrust of those who are patriots.

I live in Europe - Sicily (Italy) and I've yet to find one person who is not patriotic to the very heart and core.

I wonder where you got your generalization from?

Living in a tourist town (for the last ten years) on a daily basis I come into contact with hundreds of people from Europe and around the world and I've never been left in any doubt what country they're from, their love for their country, and their patriotism.

It's uniquely the American tourists who ‘change’ the minute they step foot here, sporting their *Sicily* T-Shirts, waving the green white and red flag, spouting off how much they want to 'live here', how much they hate the USA but are *stuck * there and after a day on the streets (here) start talking with pseudo accents from a bad mafia movie.
They're like chameleons - unlike the Europeans who may enjoy their vacations but never once change their colors or bad mouth their country.

So, where you get your ideas from about Europeans being Unpatriotic I've no idea, but, in my opinion, and, from first hand knowledge, you're run across some misguided people or information.

peace

[edit on 22-9-2009 by silo13]

reply to post by quackers

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Patriotism has nothing to do with aggression.

The US is seen as an aggressive nation because we do what other's are incapable, or unwilling to do; what needs to be done. We free people from sadistic dictators. What they choose to do with that freedom isn't on us.

reply to post by silo13

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It has also been my impression that Patriotism and Nationalism are very prevelant over in Europe and the Mediteranian. I have never been there myself, but I was fortunate to have a wide exposure to various cultures through my high school and college years. Anecdotes about the world outside out borders were part of the fuel that made me reject the rubbish we are taught in history classes here.

reply to post by stevegmu

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Really. Funny how the (not so) new trick to get the public to agree to war is to play on their patriotism. If someone talks crap about America, it would be unpatriotic not to defend America, that implies aggression. So yeah, when we're talking about patriotism, and we're talking about the good ol US, patriotism most certainly does mean aggression. You're blind if you think otherwise.

reply to post by silo13

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Patriotism in England is almost akin to a hate crime. It seems many Europeans have this one-world mentality of collectivism, where 'too much' patriotism is a bad thing. The main reason for my belief, is that most of those who denounce American patriotism are Europeans. Are you saying it is OK for Europeans to be patriotic, but not Americans?

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