That's alright.

After this government passes, we'll get to start over and make a few changes.

They are just bound and determined to piss everyone off until we go off.

They know not what they are doing.

Originally posted by dooper
They know not what they are doing.

Oh, yes they do. As chaos hits the fan, they be in Dubai sipping champagne being protected by the missile defense shield. When the smoke clears and the livestock reduced, they'll be back in a jiffy.

Patriotism is no better than fascism or communism. Pledging your undying devotion to a piece of cloth is no better than having blind faith in a mythical fire breathing creature.

The United States was founded by fanatical zealots who also just happened to be racist bigots, and as it would happen, very little has changed over the centuries.

Americans are seen around the world as fat and lazy. They are seen as bullies and murderers. The are seen as the proponents of a global agenda hell bent on making everybody's life a misery, all for the sake of the mighty dollar.

So when you stand up, and you pledge your allegiance, just what are you pledging your allegiance to? If you are proud to be an American, then you are a very sick individual indeed.

Personally, I think that swearing allegiance to anything is bizarrely insecure and really rather backward thinking.

I left the USA 23 years ago because already then I could see things were going the way of the bufffalo over there. I'm not a citizen of the country where I reside now either. I still have my US passport and citizenship, but only because I must have a nationality registered. If I had my choice, I would happily be a stateless person.

I have as much right to live on the soil of this planet as any other living creature. I don't have to swear my loyalty to anyone or anything. I don't have to play those lame games. It's all fear-based and just plain stupid. There is no government that I can point to and say "Now there's a country I would die for...". You must be *snip* joking! Forget it. It's because there are people who will (just...really....imagine it...) that nations war against each other. If we had the right to live anyplace on the planet according to our wishes alone - be it climate, local foods and customs, architecture, etc. - that motivated us, what would we or could we war against? Give people the right to be what and where they want to be and you'll find contentment.



please don't circumvent the censors.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by gallopinghordes]

my 2 pennies.

For me. As an American. A patriotic one. When I pledge allegiance to the flag, I am pledging allegiance to an idea. Not to a government. Not to a land. And sure in the heck not to any politician, whether I like him or dislike him; agree with him or disagree with him.

An idea. A people who believe in the same idea, and the act of holding that idea above all else, because it is that idea that enables the pursuit of happiness. Freedom of choice. And all the goodies that come with it...

I dont want my kid to go to school and have some teacher telling him to pledge allegiance because he has to...It is time we learn not to tell kids what to think, but to teach them how to think. We aren't nazi Germany. Were not imperial Japan, and we are not fascist Italy. I say it should be taught and after due process through years of maturation, understanding and study the student/ child/ adult will be able to make a personal decision based on reflection and knowledge that it is the right thing to do to hold his hand over his heart and pledge his allegiance...

If he makes that decision not to then he definitely should consider living elsewhere.

Actually, I feel very strongly about this. I argue against making kids saying the pledge, because a kid should NEVER be forced to make a pledge they do not understand.

First off, what's the point? It becomes part of a routine and means nothing to them. Secondly, when they finally realize what it is and means, they are more likely to reject their pledge of allegiance because of the fact that they were pressured to pledge their loyalties before they even knew what they were doing.

As for those people, such as the OP, who say that those who don't choose to pledge their allegience should just leave, well I say this. I enjoy living here. It's a beautiful country and there are great people here. There is still opportunity for the moment. But I am here in this land because I was born here. I do not see my allegience as being part and parcel with my birth. And as such I choose not to declare my allegiance to any flag, country, or government.

I pledge my allegiance to my family and to the beliefs I have learned to embrace. And if this country shall crumble and fade, I will stand to live on with the ones I love in humility and respect for my surroundings.

HEY! you're right!

If I don't want to pledge my allegiance to the idea of a country over humanity I should get the hell out of the land I was born into.
Then when I don't want to pledge my allegiance to the next country I move to I'll just get out of there!
Let people do what they want. Kids don't HAVE to recite the pledge of allegiance by the way. A lot of confrontation that doesn't otherwise exist comes about when people try to force others to view the world as they do, or pledge their allegiance to the idea of a country of flag, both of which are man-made inventions.
I haven't pledged my allegiance to anything other than humanity as a whole since I left high school....you got a problem with that, take it up with me in person.

Originally posted by stevegmuIt seems the most vocal anti-Americans are just jealous, or angry because they aren't Americans.

And then there are some of us who have lived the American way of life, seen the distorted history they teach their children, seen how arrogance, greed and the life long pursuit of material gain has corrupted their society. Seen the shallowness and the wanton disregard for anything un-american, anyone unpatriotic.

You see outsiders have the advantage of seeing you for what you are, while you sit there in your own little world of self importance talking about how great it is to be you, to be an American.

The problem with America is that it is filled with Americans like you.

There is much debate as to the actual US Constitution putting us back under British Law....Yes, look it up. The US flag is that of the British East Indies Co. My opinion on the above is still out.

I love my fellow Man wherever they are, and will allow no religion, government, or superimposed structure dictate to me how I should feel in regards to them based off of a deranged lost since of Patriotism. Last time I checked We're all on a little rock 3rd from the Sun, in the Solar System, and Milky Way Galaxy................

I am a Freedom lover, and will be doing my best to help People as the US continues to deteriorate, but I do not support the US Govt.

We are a nation of slaves; taxation without representation is what We have, and that equates directly to slavery.

never mind... not going there.

[edit on 9-21-2009 by rogerstigers]

I left the US over 8 years ago just before 9/11. At the time I was not ashamed of my American heritage and figured I would always consider myself American. I wouldn't go so far as to say I was a loud n' proud American, but let's just say I had no problem telling people where I was from.

Soon after I left the world changed, and I had the opportunity to view our reaction to 9/11 with an outsider's point of view. I was appalled, and I continue to be horrified at the way things have developed since. The whole situation seems to have been deliberately set up to 'relieve' the American people of their freedoms, to gain more control over the population, and to ensure that they accept it all out of fear and the need for protection all while feeding the greed of their oppressors.

Since leaving the US I have seen many of these changes to personal freedoms, as I'm sure many of you have. I was placed on the FBI watch list for over 2 years simply for having relocated before 9/11 and then marrying a girl of Middle Eastern ethnicity. In our many travels I've had to stand aside while she's been subjected to random bag searches and personal frisking on many occassions - each time it was obvious it was because of her racial background. On one flight from Houston to Nashville she was the only one frisked out of nearly 80 passengers. Ridiculous and shameful.

Growing up I recited the pledge of allegiance numerous times and thought not alot of it, I just considered it was the right thing to do given the whole class was doing it. But now I shudder at the thought of pledging allegiance to the country of my birth. I have great disdain for what the US has become and what it now stands for. I love the people of the country (as many of my family and friends still reside there), but I owe those in power nothing for the 'services' they provide. In fact they owe the people of the nation much more than they could ever possibly pay.

I don't like what the nation has become. I don't like where it's headed, and I feel a great sadness for those that have yet to wake up and see the governing fist that has been progressively tightening around them. I personally pledge no allegiance to America and have only retained my citizenship to ensure my children have freedom of travel if and when they decide to visit the US. We'll see how those freedoms hold up over the next few years.

So in summary, I loved it, I left it, I'm happy with my decision, and I wouldn't have it any other way.