NAVY and NASA - The REAL "Chemtrails", page 6
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reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 11:36 AM by billybob
reply to post by firepilot



umm. i don't think you read me right. let me clarify.

i said i did see contrails, (and they were only persistant if there were clouds at their altitude.), i didn't see them persist for more than an hour even in those conditions. they would disperse. they NEVER were laid down in grid patterns and subsequently joined together to form a cloud barrier.

the germans have ADMITTED to spraying chemtrails.

www.chycho.com...



[edit on 23-9-2009 by billybob]


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 01:52 PM by Somamech
Originally posted by firepilot
City streets have grid patterns too, when will conspiracy theorist starting up with car-trails and complain about interstate highways being in grid patterns


Many people I interact with on a work based level who believe what Nasa say as truth already complain about gridlock on a daily basis. They wind the windows up so they wont be choked with fumes whilst sitting in gridlock. These same people that I know in my daily goings about would hardly be called "conspiracy theorist's" which is a term I loathe as its creates multi-levels of social dichotomy which as seen in this thread prevents and curtails reasonable interest into an important matter of trying to understand 'what the phuck' the military on this planet are REALLY up to.

If you missed this PDF I highly recommend taking the time to read over it.

www.history.navy.mil...


The U.S. Navy engaged in both aspects of this 1960s space program, military and scientific. The Naval Research Laboratory developed a highly classified satellite reconnaissance system (See Section 2.5) and at the same time participated with the scientific community in unclassified space research (which served in some cases as a cover for the NRL's classified work). The Navy's Transit navigation satellite development at the Applied Physics Laboratory was an exception to the rule. Transit was developed and launched to provide precision navigation for Navy Fleet Ballistic Missile (Polaris) submarines. Initially a classified effort, the technical details of Transit were later released to the public to improve safety of navigation and similar uses.


Read the name of the this very thread and look at the OP posts from two different sources which are mentioned in the article I posted.

I see some people posting how these chemicals are ok to place into the orbit as it won't affect humans here. Now who really knows if it will or not ? I know for sure that anyone defending this DO NOT know.

IF these chemicals that are being released in orbit are KNOWN to go wrong what would be the outcome? Would the organistaions that are responsible provide any compensation for the mis-calculations? My bet is NO as go and talk to any person from Vietnam and regardless of their political persuasion some folk will tear up whilst talking about the effects of completely unnecessary actions which still effect children born to this very day.














[edit on 23-9-2009 by Somamech]

[edit on 23-9-2009 by Somamech]


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 02:51 PM by Phage
reply to post by Imagir


Why do you say they are not contrails?
Why is barium the clue?


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 03:17 PM by neformore
Originally posted by billybob
whatever you wanna believe. i am not purposely spreading falase information, and i'd love a link to this supposed "debunking" of the german video.


Contrail Science

The big problem with the video is the translation. In the shot above, the german word “duppel” is translated as “chemical trails (chemtrails)”, when the actual translation is “chaff”. The German word for “chemtrail” is “chemtrail“.





reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 04:12 PM by billybob
reply to post by neformore



from your debunking website...

Summary:

* A meteorologist sees cloud images on radar that he thinks are not actual clouds, he estimates they are 350 km long.
* He asks the government (via his local Green Party member) if they made these clouds with chaff.
* The government denies this, but says maybe the Dutch, but probably not for clouds that big.


i'd say that "debunking" debunks itself. they are talking about TONS of material, but the military only admits to small amounts.






reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 04:29 PM by Phage
reply to post by billybob


Aircraft do not carry "tons" of chaff and it does not take "tons" to produce long reflections on weather radar.
Chaff is frequently released by military aircraft in the desert area west of the Great Salt Lake (GSL). The chaff is seen on the radar display usually as narrow bands of high reflectivity that travel with the winds after emanating from a point source. Sometimes these chaff echoes can stretch for hundreds of miles. The bands are also very shallow and are usually seen on only one tilt of the radar, though this depends on the range from the radar and the amount of diffusion time. As chaff drifts closer to the radar site, it may be seen on several tilts making it more difficult to distinguish from actual weather.
www.wrh.noaa.gov...

Chaff is composed of small glass fibers with a metallic coating. It is deployed in a cloud, it's purpose being to protect the plane from radar guided missiles. It falls very slowly but I wouldn't really want to get showered with it. Still, I would rather our pilots did get the training they need to; a) avoid being shot down b) shoot down the bad guys.
The potential for chaff to affect soil and water is remote. Levels of use and accumulation would have to be extremely high to generate any significant adverse effects. Laboratory tests of chaff, using a modified toxic characteristics leaching procedure, indicated little or no potential for adverse effects on soil. Adverse effects to sensitive aquatic organisms, although unlikely, may be possible in certain small, confined water bodies. These should be addressed on a case-by-case basis in areas proposed for chaff use that include highly sensitive aquatic habitats.

The materials in chaff are generally nontoxic except in quantities significantly larger than those any human or animal could reasonably be exposed to from chaff use. Safety risks were found to be extremely low and isolated to specific circumstances that can be avoided or managed. The primary issue is the potential for interference with air traffic control radar, which is managed by requiring units to obtain a frequency clearance from the USAF Frequency Management Center and Headquarters Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prior to using chaff that could interfere with air traffic control radar. Air quality issues included questions about the potential for chaff to break down into respirable particle sizes and the possibility that hazardous air pollutants may be generated from pyrotechnic impulse cartridges used with some chaff models. ‘Ibe results of chaff particulate tests and a screening health risk assessment concluded that these are not significant concerns.



www.globalsecurity.org...


[edit on 9/23/2009 by Phage]


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 04:38 PM by neformore
reply to post by billybob



Nice side step.

The site also points out several major flaws in the claims made about the video.

I notice you missed out Karsten Brandt actual comments - and remember - this is the guy who is on the actual video that has been taken completely out of context;

Are they “Chem Trails?
On various Internet sites there passionate arguments about aircraft spraying chemicals to either change the ozone hole or, acting for the United States (who else also ..), to change the weather – for world domination. This is – according to the supporters of this conspiracy theory – not just an occasional trial, but regular, worldwide and especially in Germany. The sprayed chemicals leave greyish-white trails in the sky that are not like normal contrail, “Chem Trails” look quite different and also behave differently.

The beauty of this conspiracy theory is this: Everyone can see the trails, everyone may feel threatened, but no (normal) citizens can touch or examine them. The web pages show photos of various trails, and the “strange” pattern they leave behind in the sky.
For the layman, it is, at first glance, odd that one day contrails stay in the sky for hours, but the next day they dissolve within minutes . However, this “phenomenon” varies with the humidity and the change is very easy and simple to explain.
Of course, we also can not be absolutely excluded the possibility that a plane sprayed chemicals in the atmosphere. But as regularly and as extensively as has been claimed by the conspiracy theorists, you can just use common sense to exclude. For such a comprehensive worldwide conspiracy, there would have to be not only thousands of US pilots involved, but also scientists, German authorities, etc., etc. . How probably is it that with such a number of people, there is no leak?


You claimed the video shows the Germans military "admitting" to chemtrails. It doesn't though, does it?

Hell, even the guy in the video you claim as evidence doesn't think thats the case.

I have gone away somewhat from the original topic in debating this - and for that I apologise - however if spurious claims are being made, its only right that the facts are presented properly - otherwise the myth of these things continues while any real debate about the subject is lost.


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 04:49 PM by Phage
reply to post by billybob


No.
Chaff is not "chemicals" and it is not sprayed. The locations and times in which it is used for training is carefully controlled. It is not "chemtrails".
The FAA has placed more stringent restrictions on DOD use of any type of chaff that operates within the bands used by air traffic control radar and navigational systems. In taking the more conservative approach to air traffic control and flight safety, FAA has limited or placed restrictions on the locations, altitudes, and/or time periods within which specific types of chaff can be employed.
www.globalsecurity.org...

Cloudseeding occurs in and under existing cumulus clouds. It is not done over widespread areas. It is not "chemtrails".


reply posted on 23-9-2009 @ 05:02 PM by choche
reply to post by Phage



Thanks for clearing this..... i had the doubt about how that cloud would look like at night.... so i guess it´s just a cloud that i didn´t know about... Again... Thank you... i like this page for the amount of knowledge that the members and moderators have.
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