NAVY and NASA - The REAL "Chemtrails"

reply to post by zorgon


You're just egging the "chemmies" on, aren't ya??? :shk:

Originally posted by zorgon

Various schemes have been proposed...

See that word? The one right there? It says "proposed".

Apparently "chemmies" (like the OP of that thread) have reading comprehension problems.

Seems, in this case, the cart has gotten before the horse. It was probably the insane cloud posse's silly beliefs, and insistence of, so-called "chemtrails" (misidentifying them, when all they were seeing were contrails and normal cirrus clouds) who gave climate scientists this idea.

"chemies"

Gotta love it.

But the state shills don't need any egging on, they just gotta hear chemterails and *poof* like the manchurian candidates become rabid defenders of the lies.

Pitiful.

Everything is ok. Your leaders are good people. There is no conspiracy, anywhere. it's all under (our) control. You (ungrateful) citizens are being looked after. Pay no attention to the skies. Pay no attention to your environment. It's all under (our) control.

For how long will people keep repeating the official party lines? Same for "global warming". Where the "scientific consensus" was rubbish that idiots repeated.

Originally posted by harryhaller
"chemies"

Gotta love it.

But the state shills don't need any egging on, they just gotta hear chemterails and *poof* like the manchurian candidates become rabid defenders of the lies.

Pitiful.

Everything is ok. Your leaders are good people. There is no conspiracy, anywhere. it's all under (our) control. You (ungrateful) citizens are being looked after. Pay no attention to the skies. Pay no attention to your environment. It's all under (our) control.

For how long will people keep repeating the official party lines? Same for "global warming". Where the "scientific consensus" was rubbish that idiots repeated.

Rabid defenders of the lies? Funny, last I checked, it was the chemtrail believers who constantly post false information about aviation, weather, cloud seeding, and have to be constantly corrected. But yet they, even with all the completely wrong information they post, still insist everyone else are the disinfo agents.

I have challenged the chemtrailers to find anything I post about aviation or meteorology that is incorrect, and they never can. But most anytime a chemtrailer attempts to discuss those topics, they get everything wrong.

So isnt it ironic? You claim everyone else has some "party line" or defending lies. Yet its all of you who post nonsense over and over. We over and over, tell chemtrail believers to learn about aircraft, learn about aviation, and weather. But its you all, the chemtrail believers, who completely refuse to learn any facts that may interrupt your little conspiracy and delusions of grandeur.

Originally posted by firepilot
Rabid defenders of the lies? Funny, last I checked, it was the chemtrail believers who constantly post false information about aviation, weather, cloud seeding, and have to be constantly corrected. But yet they, even with all the completely wrong information they post, still insist everyone else are the disinfo agents.

So you are saying that the information in THIS thread is false? Show me where it is false please... or are you simply doing what all you contrail protagonists do.. derail the thread to take focus of the material? I see it all over ATS, a certain tag team can be counted on to pop in and make sure the OP info is lost and buried in page after page of rhetoric...

Now you show me how and where the info I posted in this thread is wrong, or that HAARP isn't officially included in the documentation... otherwise your just one more troll with an agenda.

The thread has already been moved to Skunkworks... most likely because you contrail junkies can't get over the use of 'chemtrails' in a general term for chemical altering of the skies and ionosphere... so fine I have a new term SPACE DUSTING

But call it what you will the EFFECT is real. Be an ostrich if you like, but if your going to toss out accusations of wrong info, you better back it up with facts

Originally posted by firepilot

So isnt it ironic?

Terribly.

You claim everyone else has some "party line" or defending lies.

Not everyone. But people who invent lables for opponents in debates most specifically.

Yet its all of you who post nonsense over and over.

All of us huh? Us chemies? Or us ATS users? Or us common folk?

We over and over,

We? Yes you are persistant. If nothing else.

tell chemtrail believers to learn about aircraft, learn about aviation, and weather.

Refer to my comment on "consensus science" above.

But its you all, the chemtrail believers, who completely refuse to learn any facts that may interrupt your little conspiracy and delusions of grandeur.

Is that what you're really saying? No be honest with us. The same is true of you, you know (almost)?

Yes, conventional science does not currently allow the view that the earth is being systematically converted into a battlefield. I understand this knowledge would cause some trauma.

Also, considering the lies that have been propogated by scientists recently, on behalf of various governments and organisations (steel melting at 800 deg being AN example) perhaps "commonly PROPOGATED scientific" ideas are worth investigating a little deeper? Denials (of anything) moreso.

Now i know you see yourself as the defender of the idiots, but you just happen to sound like the same people in power. Kissinger et al. Curious that.

The concept of using aeroplanes to seed the atmosphere (anything up ok?) with anything for any purpose is an entirely valid concept. Since several patents have been filed discussing thse concepts shows that smart people think so too. No matter the theory, observation makes the most of any experiment, and when the observations conflict with the theory then the theory must be changed, NOT the observations. Unfortunately, you are trying to convince "us" that both theory and observations are not only wrong, but idiotic, misguided, and dangerous. That has been a common trait of many who weigh in on the "chemtrail" debate. Please do not accuse us of being closed minded. Again, that is a common method used in conjunction with a bad argument.

Since this thread is not even about "chemtrails" but a similar "atmosphere seeding experiment", and since it has been over a year since this was first posted, perhaps the OP could share further revelations on the subject at hand. It's in skunkworks, so he can say anything he likes, and i am hereto learn more of new things, not be reminded (et al) about what the common scientific consensus is.

Thank you

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by firepilot
Rabid defenders of the lies? Funny, last I checked, it was the chemtrail believers who constantly post false information about aviation, weather, cloud seeding, and have to be constantly corrected. But yet they, even with all the completely wrong information they post, still insist everyone else are the disinfo agents.

So you are saying that the information in THIS thread is false? Show me where it is false please... or are you simply doing what all you contrail protagonists do.. derail the thread to take focus of the material? I see it all over ATS, a certain tag team can be counted on to pop in and make sure the OP info is lost and buried in page after page of rhetoric...

Now you show me how and where the info I posted in this thread is wrong, or that HAARP isn't officially included in the documentation... otherwise your just one more troll with an agenda.

The thread has already been moved to Skunkworks... most likely because you contrail junkies can't get over the use of 'chemtrails' in a general term for chemical altering of the skies and ionosphere... so fine I have a new term SPACE DUSTING

But call it what you will the EFFECT is real. Be an ostrich if you like, but if your going to toss out accusations of wrong info, you better back it up with facts

edit on 18-9-2010 by zorgon because: because Phage told me too

Hmm, am I just imagining things, or did a MOD scold you on the first page for playing fast and loose, for using "chemtrails" as an inaccurate term to bring attention to your thread? You used a conspiratorial term in reference to a rocket launch that put aerosols about 177 miles up? Are you serious????? This is one of the many reasons the chemtrail clowns have no credibility, chemtrails are just whatever someone has in their mind, as opposed to a coherent single idea. Your posts even show, that chemtrails is whatever someone wants it to be.

Maybe forest fires and comets should be considered chemtrails from now on too. Lets not forget people who fly RC planes and model rockets either

.its about spaceship "chemtrails"

Seriiously? spaceship chemtrails???

Okay, here is this for an accusation of wrong info, its already been pointed out though.

From the horses mouth NOAA is using OTHR for CLIMATE CONTROL

"OTH radar can monitor surface winds, waves, and currents over large, fixed ocean areas that influence the weather and climate of North America and Europe. It can characterize sea state, a critical unknown in assessing the effects of air-sea interaction on global climate change. Sea state affects ocean albedo and thus the absorption of solar radiation. Sea-surface roughness affects the uptake of greenhouse gases. Surface wind stress, determined by wind speed and surface roughness, affects ocean circulation and the global heat budget. The recently demonstrated capability of OTH radar for mapping surface currents could contribute directly to monitoring ocean circulation and heat fluxes. "

Not not being used for climate control, its being used to study the weather and conduct research. You definitely tried to leave the impression it was being used specifically as a means of climate control.

And then using the Soviet "Buran" spaceship as an example of an unmanned plane? Well it is not an airplane, but a spacecraft with a gliding ability. And if that supposedly is supposed to represent this vast fleet of airplanes in the chemtrail conspiracy...well Buran has not even been launched since 1988.

Love those red bloods cells too!

It was not of course red blood cells but you did not exactly make any effort to correct someone elses views of it, or to actually define what it was, even if you knew it was not red blood cells.

Funny, while you insist its other with the agenda, the moderator basically said it was you with an agenda, expropriating a conspiracy term in regards to aircraft and using it for a rocket launch to an altitude above many satellites.

I am disappointed though, why are my firefighting airplanes not considered to be chemplanes? I mean we can carry near 30,000 lbs of chemical...and we are right above the ground too, often right by people.

Not everyone. But people who invent lables for opponents in debates most specifically.

You mean like when chemtrail believers call us "debunkers" and "government shills"??? Is that what you mean?

Not everyone. But people who invent lables for opponents in debates most specifically.

Chemtrail believers have a staggeringly high level of ignorance in regards to aviation and meterolology.

Refer to my comment on "consensus science" above.

Umm, what does learning about aviaition, aircraft and meteorology have to do with consensus? Its not about consensus, its about FACTS.

. Is that what you're really saying? No be honest with us. The same is true of you, you know (almost)?

Well, I invite you to comb through any message of mine and look where I got facts wrong. Especially in regards to aviation, aircraft and meterology. You will find that all too often, the chemtrail crowd again totally gets something wrong, and then me and others have to correct them.

Yes, conventional science does not currently allow the view that the earth is being systematically converted into a battlefield. I understand this knowledge would cause some trauma.

What? The earth has been a battlefield as long as there have been people. Just the size of the individual battle is bigger and more deadly.

The concept of using aeroplanes to seed the atmosphere (anything up ok?) with anything for any purpose is an entirely valid concept. Since several patents have been filed discussing thse concepts shows that smart people think so too. No matter the theory, observation makes the most of any experiment, and when the observations conflict with the theory then the theory must be changed, NOT the observations. Unfortunately, you are trying to convince "us" that both theory and observations are not only wrong, but idiotic, misguided, and dangerous. That has been a common trait of many who weigh in on the "chemtrail" debate. Please do not accuse us of being closed minded. Again, that is a common method used in conjunction with a bad argument.

Wow, yet another chemtrail believer acting like they are telling us something new. Are you going to also tell us it is hot in the summer? So many of the chemtrail crowd act like cloud seeding is something argued, and that only they know the truth. How about this newsflash - NO ONE HAS DENIED THAT CLDUD SEEDING OCCURS, so drop that strawman. I can tell you all about how cloud seeding works if you would like. CLoud seeding has nothing to do with this thread, or chemtrails either.

Since this thread is not even about "chemtrails" but a similar "atmosphere seeding experiment",

So which one of you two is right? The OP says it is chemtrails. You said it is not...He said it can be whatever one wants it to be. And btw aerosols are not "seeding" agents in space. There is nothing to seed out there. Just releasing something is not seeding, seeding agents are put into clouds for a specific purpose...

Originally posted by firepilot
Your posts even show, that chemtrails is whatever someone wants it to be.

Yes seems "chemtrails" in quotes is enough to stir all you debunkers into a frenzy... anything to distract from the fact that chemicals in many forms by several means are released into the atmosphere and lower regions of space for various purposes related to stealth and/or weather manipulation 'experiments', including space weather.

But hey maybe a mod did have issues with my title... but seems others felt it applause worthy so I guess you cannot please everyone... nor do I try

"Space Dusting" The release of various chemicals and metal fragments into the near Earth environment for military stealth research, weather manipulation experiments and other currently unknown reasons

There ya go

One thing is certain... its NOT just to make pretty noctilucent clouds.

So which one of you two is right? The OP says it is chemtrails.

No I said "chemtrails" It is generally accepted that putting a word in " "'s alters the context... Seems several on ATS do not understand this. All you supposed airplane 'experts' seem to feel the issue ONLY relates to contrails with chemicals in them. Perhaps this is where your confusion arises from... either that or some are deliberately obtuse

Originally posted by firepilot

Umm, what does learning about aviaition, aircraft and meteorology have to do with consensus? Its not about consensus, its about FACTS.

What? The earth has been a battlefield as long as there have been people. Just the size of the individual battle is bigger and more deadly.

So which one of you two is right? The OP says it is chemtrails. You said it is not...

Consensus is based on allowable facts. Facts, or more importantly, the interpretation of facts, can be manipulated. You have entered into dispute arising from the interpretation of the definition of a word used in this discussion. Straw man indeed.

THAT IS NO EXCUSE!!! Besides, this is war against us, whose side are you on?

Divide and conquer. Your arguments are so ... elite.

This OP makes an excellent case for a number of anomalies. Yet you persist in making allegations which, while not terribly strong to begin with, have very little relevance either. Chemtrails exist. I'm terribly sorry you don't allow that into your world view. Your repeated assertions that they should not be allowed in ours either, is well, a little intolerant to be pc.

Heya Zorgon,

Just gotta start off by saying: Thanks for all your well thought out, and well laid out threads! I always enjoy them, even if I've found them a little late! I found it funny that after reading your research here, 2 days ago, and letting it sink in a bit, I found myself watching some show on OLN (Outdoor Life Network - here in Canada) entitled "Conspiracy Theory" (unfortunately starring Jesse Ventura

Anyways, the whole episode dealt with a HAARP, and it's other 'sister experiments' in far off countries.

I thought it was unjust that this thread was moved to the skunkworks, simply because the title of the thread didn't match the rest of the 'chemtrails' info as much as some would have liked... I honestly think that with the amount of research you've done, and provided, that this thread should be moved back to it's original forum, instead.

The fact that so many people are now bypassing this thread, simply because of it's location... Wow.

Once again, Kudos, Zorgon! Your work is always appreciated!

Jephers0nian

I would just like to say that I have believed in some crazy stuff in the past... still do. I don't claim to know the truth but, somehow, instinctively I have always thought of this chemtrail stuff to be the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Just look at some of the people that believe this stuff... they are the same people that don't believe any of the 'real' stuff. Mostly ignorant people who logic seems to evade.

Chemtrails/Contrails... yeah, I'll tell you what they are... they are water vapor mostly, mixed in with exhaust from burnt fuel. Cloud seeding is no secret... but that mostly has to do with weather modification.

Just adding my two cents to the "consensus". LOL

Originally posted by darius2025
I would just like to say that I have believed in some crazy stuff in the past... still do. I don't claim to know the truth but, somehow, instinctively I have always thought of this chemtrail stuff to be the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

Uh huh... so you actually read the material in this thread then? And it has what to do with cloud seeding?

Originally posted by worldshow
Hello everyone!

I`m not in conspiracy stuff, but I like to read about it. There is something you may be interested in...

cgi.ebay.com...:MESELX:IT

As loony as that was, its really not much different than Don Croft, one of the originally sellers of the chemtrail hoax, selling his little orgone toys for around that much too

Originally posted by firepilot

As loony as that was, its really not much different than Don Croft, one of the originally sellers of the chemtrail hoax, selling his little orgone toys for around that much too

In terms of proof then on your part? Do you have any original substantial eveidence?




sites.wff.nasa.gov...

reply to post by burntheships

The role of the Nihka motor in the experiment was not for propulsion but to simply burn at about 280 km in altitude, releasing combustion products and chemicals into the atmosphere forming an artificial noctilucent cloud of charged particles.

sites.wff.nasa.gov...
You understand that the atmosphere pretty much ends at about 100 km don't you?

It's so odd that this site handles aerial dispersion so differently than other topics here. One may speculate the owners and/or admins approve of the geoengineering and department of defense techniques and wish to corrupt their site in order to maintain such agendas.

Despite all the evidence, even being far greater than many other topics here, I wonder if even FOIA obtained documentation laying out the actual operations in full detail would sway this corrupt and fallacious behavior.

EDIT:

Or maybe they've received one of those secret, self written Patriot ACT warrants demanding this behavior be implemented as a cease and desist effort

Here's a page with various pattern descriptions. Granted, these are strictly observational field experiments and do not entail dispersion / introduction of various products for the sake of effect analysis, modelling improvement, or alteration deployments.

www.asp.bnl.gov...



From that group of experiments one may wish to inquire as to what technology has been derived in order to "scrub" or clean the hazards identified in those extensive field observations.

MCMA-2006
Mexico City Metropolitan Area – 2006
Lead Scientist: Dr. Luisa T. Molina,
Molina Center for Energy and the Environment (MCE2)
mce2.org...
MAX-Mex
Megacity Aerosol Experiment – Mexico
Lead Scientist: Dr. Jeff Gaffney,
Argonne National Lab/Department of Energy (ANL/DOE)
www.asp.bnl.gov...
MIRAGE-Mex
Megacity Impacts on Regional and Global Environments-Mexico
Lead Scientist: Dr. Sasha Madronich,
National Center for Atmospheric Research/National Science Foundation (NCAR/NSF)
mirage-mex.acd.ucar.edu...
NASA-INTEX-B
Intercontinental Chemical Transport Experiment – Phase B
Lead Scientist: Dr. Hanwant Singh,
National Aeronautics and Space Administration/Ames Research Center (NASA/ARC)
www.espo.nasa.gov...
MILAGRO Website
www.joss.ucar.edu...

That's just one of many (thousands?), though.

Here we go again chemtrails vs. contrails.

I am with the chemtrails folks.

Way to go Zorgon.

I also noticed quite naturally this week when they were moving the astronauts up there from that space junk the news actually said something to the effect that the news came from the Space Command, hmmmmm.

reply to post by observe50


Oh, dear....oh, dear. Only read the title, huh?

I am with the chemtrails folks.

Pay CLOSE attention:

The hysteria over the so-called "chem"-trails (that are actually normal jet contrails, IN the atmosphere) has nothing, at all, to do with zorgon's information, here.

ROCKETS!! SPACE!!

Do read it .....


Any wonder the entire concept is destined to the fringe, anymore? People who "believe" the sort of hype, as started and spread by the likes of Cliff Carnicorn, et al, are just knee-jerking in response....to that trigger word, "chemtrail" --- and NOT actually understanding any of the details, science, facts, etc.....