Where exactly did the DNA come from?

reply to post by Lillydale


Long article from NEWSWEEK, Jan 22, 2009

Explains how DNA analysts tried to separate hijackers DNA profiles from
mass of DNA collected

In New York, efforts to identify the terrorists were more difficult. There were still too many victims who had not been identified by their DNA, making it impossible to flag the terrorists by a process of elimination. The scientists needed the DNA profiles from the hijackers. Shaler's office turned to the FBI for help. The request made its way to the desk of Alan Giusti, the lab's forensic examiner in charge of the September 11 investigation. As it turned out, Giusti had worked for Shaler at a private DNA lab in the '80s, when the technology was in its infancy. Now Giusti was spending his days using genetic clues to nail bank robbers and murderers.

Working with a team of specialists on the third floor of the J. Edgar Hoover building in Washington, D.C., Giusti was in fact already creating DNA profiles of the New York terrorists from scraps of evidence left behind in hotel rooms and rental cars in the days before the attacks. A large basement room in the FBI building was filled with boxes of evidence, each piece stored in a brown paper bag. "It looks low tech," says Giusti, but the bags keep out humidity or dryness—"the two demons of DNA analysis." For DNA sleuths used to working with tiny scraps of genetic material, it was the mother lode: "fingernail clippings, chewing gum, hairbrushes, anything we could get dead skin off of," he says. When they swabbed the "friction areas" along the inside collars of shirts, the DNA came back mixed, an indication that the hijackers may have shared clothes. A few pieces of used tissue, tossed into a hotel room wastebasket, yielded clues, as did saliva from cigarette butts. Giusti mixed them with enzymes to release DNA—"like cracking the nut of a shell to get the meat out," he says. The "amplified" product—a few drops of clear, viscous liquid—was then put into a large machine that spits out lists of numbers, a genetic map unique to each individual.

It took more than a year for Giusti's lab to get back to New York with the results—a single page with 10 genetic codes. It was February 2003, and Shaler and his crew got to work on the numbers immediately. They were anxious to see if they could make a match to any of the unidentified remains they had retrieved. Shaler's deputy, Howard Baum, thought it would never work. How could they be sure that the clothing and tissues and cigarette butts were really those of the hijackers? "We had no idea where the profiles came from or how they were developed," says Baum. "I was skeptical." A scientist entered the codes into the lab's Mass Fatality Identification System. They told the computer to display any matches to the hijacker profiles in red. Immediately, there were two matches. Shaler and Baum were elated—they would be able to weed out at least some of the terrorists' remains after all. "Finding the first match was the big deal," says Baum. "It was proof of the concept—that we could identify the hijackers. Our job was not for the dead, it was for the living."

I suggest everyone read it

But that would be against the "Truther code".....

www.newsweek.com...

Originally posted by thedman

I suggest everyone read it

But that would be against the "Truther code".....

www.newsweek.com...

Then why bother posting it as a response? Really, it is this crap at the end that makes me not want to read anything you post. Self fulfilling prophecy by any chance?

Originally posted by thedman

It took more than a year for Giusti's lab to get back to New York with the results—a single page with 10 genetic codes. It was February 2003, and Shaler and his crew got to work on the numbers immediately. They were anxious to see if they could make a match to any of the unidentified remains they had retrieved.

Wow. So they set out to spend over a year identifying the men that we had already seen published in the paper since about September 15? So we knew who they were. We could accused them and publish their names and faces and yet...we did not have any DNA test results until after 2003? What am I missing?

[edit on 12/16/09 by Lillydale]

reply to post by Lillydale


Apparently have problem with reading comprehension....

Article states that reason was to see if hijackers remains could be
identified from DNA material collected

Families did not want their relatives remains "contaminated" by the
hijackers

Also was means of positive confirmation of the hijackers considering all the truthers yapping about how the hijackers were still alive

Positive confirmation of hijacker idenities...

reply to post by thedman

Apparently have problem with reading comprehension....

Fist rule in railroading a Topic, insult the messenger.

Article states that reason was to see if hijackers remains could be
identified from DNA material collected

What DNA material collected? Collected from where? How was it collected in a million ton of ash and debris. Do you care to debate how the FBI got all 19 invisible, stolen identities, DNA. 6 out of 19 hijackers still walking around alive free and clear yet the FBI refuses to take their name of the most wanted list, but cannot arrest them.

Families did not want their relatives remains "contaminated" by the
Hijackers

Yeah I got some land for sale….

Also was means of positive confirmation of the hijackers considering all the truthers yapping about how the hijackers were still alive

Positive confirmation of hijacker idenities...

You obviously have not done any real research into 911. Robert Muller, head of the FBI has already admitted they do not know the real identities to these hijackers because, they left no paper trail.

Oh well, I guess that just blew your OS hijacker DNA fantasy to a oblivion.





[edit on 17-12-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Apparently have problem with reading comprehension....

Article states that reason was to see if hijackers remains could be
identified from DNA material collected

Families did not want their relatives remains "contaminated" by the
hijackers

Also was means of positive confirmation of the hijackers considering all the truthers yapping about how the hijackers were still alive

Positive confirmation of hijacker idenities...

Apparently you have a problem with Logic comprehension. It was clearly stated that they were identified BY DNA. Then it was shown that that ID did not surface for a year. So the OS line that they were identified by DNA is GONE. Now you say this is just for clarification, a year later. OK, then...how did they identify them the first time in order to put them in the paper?

You cannot have it all these different ways. Here is what the OS wants us to believe.

We ID'd them in 3 days.
They were ID'd by DNA.
The DNA was given by their families.
The DNA was collected from hotel rooms and rental cars.
The DNA was not tested for over a year.
Even the FBI admits they did not properly identify them all.

And I live in a fantasy world? You missed a few steps there pal. How were they identified the first time again?

Originally posted by impressme

Oh well, I guess that just blew your OS hijacker DNA fantasy to a oblivion.

I really do not understand why the FBI does not just come to ATS where posters here have all the answers they do not know how to get.

reply to post by Lillydale

Oh well, I guess that just blew your OS hijacker DNA fantasy to a oblivion.

I really do not understand why the FBI does not just come to ATS where posters here have all the answers they do not know how to get.

LOL so true, but I would not doubt they are in here now, trying their best to spin the OS as we continue to prove all their lies, I love it.

reply to post by Lillydale


Well, actually, the most rudimentary "research" (google) will give you the answers you seek. DNA was collected at Shanksville, whatever didn't match victims was assumed to be the DNA of the hijackers. At the WTC, DNA bearing material was collected from the personal belongings of the hijackers and matches were found. Pentagon was approached the same as Shanksville. No big mystery. Like I said simple, basic logical process.
Really don't understand all the "confusion".

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Well, actually, the most rudimentary "research" (google) will give you the answers you seek. DNA was collected at Shanksville, whatever didn't match victims was assumed to be the DNA of the hijackers. At the WTC, DNA bearing material was collected from the personal belongings of the hijackers and matches were found. Pentagon was approached the same as Shanksville. No big mystery. Like I said simple, basic logical process.
Really don't understand all the "confusion".

Really? You do not understand the confusion? Maybe if you offered up some sources that would help. Just read this thread. According to the 'OS' they obtained the DNA from terrorist's families. According to the 'OS' they obtained it from hotel rooms and rental cars. According to the 'OS' the FBI admits they are not positive of all these IDs - meaning that this DNA has learned how to steal identities too apparently. According to the DNA, thousands of bodies of people in the WTC disaster were NOT identified and yer, all of the terrorists were.

I guess the confusion would come in when you step out of fantasy land and into the real world where you are forced to realize that all of those things contradict each other. You keep repeating it as if it is all true though. Whatever you do, stick with your rudimentary research. We all know that the best discoveries come from rudimentary research when advanced research is available. Maybe if you stepped it up from rudimentary and stopped relying on google to teach you things, you would understand.

reply to post by Lillydale


Where exactly are you reading all this OS?? What is the source of your OS material - other conspiracy websites?

Really, it is not very complicated. In NYC they gathered all human remains that they could and profiled the DNA. They had DNA bearing material from the hijackers personal belongings, they found matches for three of the hijackers.

At shanksville they had DNA from all the human remains whatever didn't match the victims was then identified as the hijackers, same in DC.

You should check your OS sources a little more carefully.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Where exactly are you reading all this OS?? What is the source of your OS material - other conspiracy websites?

President George W. Bush.

V.P. Dick Cheney

S.O.D. Donald Rumsfeld.

These would be the officials that gave me my official story. If you need more detail, try reading releases from the FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. These things would also be considered official documents.

Really, it is not very complicated. In NYC they gathered all human remains that they could and profiled the DNA. They had DNA bearing material from the hijackers personal belongings, they found matches for three of the hijackers.

Really? From where? What is your source? Some OS website?

At shanksville they had DNA from all the human remains whatever didn't match the victims was then identified as the hijackers, same in DC.

You should check your OS sources a little more carefully.

I did not realize that I ever even mentioned shanksville. The coroner claims there were no remains to sift through in which to find any DNA but I am sure he is no official to you.

Where do you get your info? FOX News? Your claim that they found DNA from 3 hijackers is yet another contradiction. Lets add that to these OS stories that they found all their DNA, they got DNA from relatives, and now, it was just 3 of them identified by rental car dust. OK!

reply to post by Lillydale

Originally posted by Lillydale
Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale


Where exactly are you reading all this OS?? What is the source of your OS material - other conspiracy websites?

President George W. Bush.

V.P. Dick Cheney

S.O.D. Donald Rumsfeld.

These would be the officials that gave me my official story. If you need more detail, try reading releases from the FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. These things would also be considered official documents.

Its so funny, even hooper doesn’t know the OS fairytale, yet he supports something that he has no real knowledge about.

You are right about, Cheney, Bush, and Donald Rumsfeld, what came out of their mouth to the mainstream Press is part of the OS. The rest of the OS lies can be read in the 911 Commission report, FEMA report, and the NIST report. All proven lies along time ago.




[edit on 19-12-2009 by impressme]

Lilly,I guess Robert Muller's comments to the media about the hijackers were "taken out of context." or perhaps he was just confused when he told the public that they did not know who these guys really are.As you have said they can't have 3 ways or 4 even.

Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Where exactly are you reading all this OS?? What is the source of your OS material - other conspiracy websites?

President George W. Bush.

V.P. Dick Cheney

S.O.D. Donald Rumsfeld.

These would be the officials that gave me my official story. If you need more detail, try reading releases from the FBI, CIA, DHS, etc. These things would also be considered official documents.

Really, it is not very complicated. In NYC they gathered all human remains that they could and profiled the DNA. They had DNA bearing material from the hijackers personal belongings, they found matches for three of the hijackers.

Really? From where? What is your source? Some OS website?

At shanksville they had DNA from all the human remains whatever didn't match the victims was then identified as the hijackers, same in DC.

You should check your OS sources a little more carefully.

I did not realize that I ever even mentioned shanksville. The coroner claims there were no remains to sift through in which to find any DNA but I am sure he is no official to you.

Where do you get your info? FOX News? Your claim that they found DNA from 3 hijackers is yet another contradiction. Lets add that to these OS stories that they found all their DNA, they got DNA from relatives, and now, it was just 3 of them identified by rental car dust. OK!

Really? The why did you not quote GW Bush with regard to the DNA? When did he talk about it? Where? In what context?

Rental car dust? Just making crap up now, aren't you. Pretty desperate. Any modern adult knows that you don't need an entire human body in order to extract DNA. That's the whole idea - the DNA of the specimen is found in every cell of the specimen.

When and where did the coroner at Shanksville ever claim that there were insufficient human remains from which to extract and profile DNA, or is this just more BS you're pulling out of thin air to deflect from the reality that you have absolutely no argument.?

Originally posted by hooper
Really? The why did you not quote GW Bush with regard to the DNA? When did he talk about it? Where? In what context?

Who did I quote? Was it ANY of the other OFFICIAL sites? Did you stop reading after you saw his name because it got you all excited?

Rental car dust? Just making crap up now, aren't you. Pretty desperate.

I am not the one that keeps pushing this idea. It is you OSers that keep claiming the reference DNA was found in rental cars and hotel rooms. Do you need a source?

Any modern adult knows that you don't need an entire human body in order to extract DNA. That's the whole idea - the DNA of the specimen is found in every cell of the specimen.

That would be the dust you OSers are talking about. Did you think I said they found body parts in rental cars? Please re-read, you seem confused.

When and where did the coroner at Shanksville ever claim that there were insufficient human remains from which to extract and profile DNA, or is this just more BS you're pulling out of thin air to deflect from the reality that you have absolutely no argument.?

My bad, there was a piece of spinal ccord.

“If you didn’t know, you would have thought no one was on the plane. You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.” [Longman, 2002, pp. 217] The only recognizable body part he sees is a piece of spinal cord with five vertebrae attached. He will later tell Australian newspaper The Age, “I’ve seen a lot of highway fatalities where there’s fragmentation. The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven’t, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop.”

Ah...magically body parts turn up. Are they one that make any sense in context of the crash? No. Do they serve to give off the idea that the people supposed to be on that plane were on that plane? Sure. Hands and feet. They ended up finding hands and feet. No blood. No torsos. No heads. Just hands and feet. For a crash that completely demolished that plane full of people that were supposedly in different places as a mutiny was mounted, it sure did a nice job of saving everyone's hands and feet.

Wally Miller, the coroner at Shanksville said he found no blood, but found human remains. When pushed on the question of finding human remains, Miller said...Yes/No/Some....and then said that the only remains found were hands and feet - nothing else.

[edit on 12/21/09 by Lillydale]

reply to post by Lillydale


You do realize of course, that you don't need any specific body part in order to extract DNA, correct? You don't need blood or whole parts, just indivdual cells. DNA has been extracted from the dry saliva on the end of a cigarette butt. Hair, fingernails, dry skin, any part of the human body. You leave little traces of yourself everywhere you go. Why do you think forensic investigators wear those funny outfits at crime scenes? And its not just for TV and movies, they really do wear them. Its so that they don't accidently cross contaminate stuff from the scene with their own DNA.

As for the blood - why is that so suprising? There would have only been about 55 gallons of blood involved. Considering the ferocity of the crash, it is not suprising that the liquid did not survive.

Lillydale...
Whats most interesting about this/your thread imo, is WHO is absent from the discussion.

I thought I'd surely expect to see mr wacker here.

guess a cat got his tongue?

Originally posted by Lillydale
Ah...magically body parts turn up. Are they one that make any sense in context of the crash? No. Do they serve to give off the idea that the people supposed to be on that plane were on that plane? Sure. Hands and feet. They ended up finding hands and feet. No blood. No torsos. No heads. Just hands and feet. For a crash that completely demolished that plane full of people that were supposedly in different places as a mutiny was mounted, it sure did a nice job of saving everyone's hands and feet.

Wally Miller, the coroner at Shanksville said he found no blood, but found human remains. When pushed on the question of finding human remains, Miller said...Yes/No/Some....and then said that the only remains found were hands and feet - nothing else.

[edit on 12/21/09 by Lillydale]

AE's take on it. talk about a unanswerable question this one is it. My Theory I think supports a natural process and artifical influence. Humans have a lot in common with common FUNGUS I believe that part of the tree of life is really down there as one of the oldest living things. I believe the earth evolved to a point of say chimpanzee (intelectually), when the earth was discovered and this creature was selected for experimentation where something or some intellegent being gave us a gift of knowledge and learning. what you are not born with has to be learned. as a natural being the species has broken the bearer and is no longer in harmony as a natural part of the ecosystem. we are the product of what we call GOD.
whom you communicate with using your Pinal Gland (bio transceiver) with all the anguish going on here on earth, I can imagine why we are having increased UFO activity (if they are not holograms).

so to answer your question, well half natural and 25% learned 25% experience... we are a marvel of bio engineering, who...? who knows...? I would say UFO's, Religion say GOD ... I believe they are one in the same.... but then again, Ive been wrong before and most certainly will again in the future. To Err is Human~



[edit on 23-12-2009 by Anti-Evil]

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Lillydale

 

You do realize of course, that you don't need any specific body part in order to extract DNA, correct? You don't need blood or whole parts, just indivdual cells. DNA has been extracted from the dry saliva on the end

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Keep up. This is not about whether or not DNA could be obtained for a few dozen sets of feet. This is about the absurdity of the crash scene where this magical DNA came from. No one found any remains of either the plane or the passengers or the crew or the terrorists but then....just wait.....wait.....wait a little longer.....oh yeah. Phew! We found everyone's feet.

You don't see anything wrong with that?