Where are the booms when the WTC 1,2 and 7 collapses?, page 3

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reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 02:13 PM by esdad71

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by esdad71
Since there is no evidence of explosives, what else do we have?

This statement is a blatant and flat-out lie. There is overwhelming evidence of explosives as I described in my post in this very thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

All you're doing is showing your ignorance and denial by ignoring all available evidence and calling the first responders liars, and the video that corroborates them a fake.

See what denial disorder does to a person? Do yourself and those around you a favor: talk to someone about your disorder. You will feel like a new person afterwards.

It is a lie in the eyes of yourself and a a very, very.very small percentage of Americans. Why dont you take the time to go toe every firehouse in NYC or at least send them an emai....letter...and see how many of them buy into your story. That is all it is. A well crafted story that gives you empowerment when people S&F you on here.

I show no ignorance in standing up to you and your rhetoric. I am also not denying evidence. I watched it and my opinion was that nothing was provided that would help me to understand. Sorry, but my the mans own admission on the tape he needs medication and is not sure why he feels the way he does. Are you telling me you would put this guy on a stand for cross examination?

I am not in denial. I am researching and I have found only a few on the other side of the fence who are even open to looking at everything from the beginning and see WHY we were attacked by terrorists and not our own government. I do not deny government involvement because i think that they are covering up 93.

Thanks for the advice on going to see a psychiatrist. Maybe I will have them bump up my lithuim and depakote so I can start to follow your story a little better and fall in line with the rest of you lemmings. I think that is the problem

[edit on 26-9-2009 by esdad71]

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 02:17 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by esdad71
It is a lie in the eyes of yourself and a a very, very.very small percentage of Americans.

Have any statistics to back that up, or are you just making things up, too?

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 02:52 PM by esdad71

reply to post by bsbray11

Tell you what. Go to a NFL or MLB game and stand out front with a sign that says the government pulled off 9/11 with a shirt that says Thermite rocks! Then, as people are going in, ask them what they think. get back to me with your findings and let me know how it goes.

That is a tired question. You cannot post anything that is in the MSM unless it fits the truther argument so it is a moot point. If you would like some polls though, here you go?

Now, prison planet says

www.prisonplanet.com...

over 80% of the country believes there is a government coverup.

or you could look at a Zogby poll where it states only 15% beleive it was the government

en.wikipedia.org...

So tell me, what am I, as a regular American, supposed to think and who should i believe?No one except myself.

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 02:58 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by esdad71
Tell you what. Go to a NFL or MLB game and stand out front with a sign that says the government pulled off 9/11 with a shirt that says Thermite rocks!

That's not what would be considered scientifically rigorous.

Why don't you go down an alley in downtown NY and start yelling about how all New Yorkers are scum? Think you'll find proof that New York is the best state ever? Because using the same reasoning, I"m sure you will!

Btw, a very large percentage of New Yorkers believe they were lied to about 9/11. And I think they meant besides Flight 93. But you can look the polls up yourself. You know they exist just the same as I do, including scientific Zogby surveys. But there are none that show the numbers YOU would like to see, so you offer something worthless in return. 15% is almost 1 in 5, not a 'very very very...' small percentage.

What's the problem? I don't mention 9/11 to every person I pass on the street. But I promise you, you pass a ton of people who share my conviction on a daily basis. I do too, and I probably realize it more often since I've talked to a lot of people I see on a regular basis about the subject. This is all about increasing public awareness, esdad. You are regularly in public, now increase your awareness.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by bsbray11]

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 09:02 PM by esdad71

reply to post by bsbray11

Man, you really are too much. No matter what is presented, you discredit it. I give you polls from both side to show the disparity and still you discredit. You say 15% is the same as 1 in 5. It is not.

I don;t think you honestly have the balls to do what I suggested not because it is not scientific. I mean, it is more scientific than the man you all think is a god who tested dust in a non scientific environment and paid to have it posted and non peer reviewed.

How about this...go visit 5 separate firehouses in NY and ask your question and see what happens. My guess is you get put out on your ass. Here is a list of some of the heroes from that day who do not want to be called heroes...

www.firehouse.com...

Let them know your thoughts outside of this forum and see how real the world is folks. Open your mind...

Also, how are you spreading awareness by not talking to anyone but 'promising' they feel the same?

[edit on 26-9-2009 by esdad71]

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 10:10 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by esdad71
How about this...go visit 5 separate firehouses in NY and ask your question and see what happens.

I still don't see what that has to do with anything.

Also, how are you spreading awareness by not talking to anyone but 'promising' they feel the same?

I only come here at all for people like you, esdad. No one else.

reply posted on 26-9-2009 @ 10:10 PM by bsbray11

doublepost

[edit on 26-9-2009 by bsbray11]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:18 AM by esdad71

reply to post by bsbray11

I a just trying to spread awareness just like you and I think maybe you need a dose of reality.

Ahhh....you come here for people like me?

what a ball-buster

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:35 AM by bsbray11

reply to post by esdad71

Well if you have some reality to dish to me, I'm all up for that. Valhall has some questions about NIST's report, too, so maybe you could help us all out at once!

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:35 AM by talisman

esdad71

a little off topic but it relates to some comments that were mentioned earlier

Basically we have 2 entities here:

1.We have Osama and his Al'Qaeda.

2.We have the Industrial Military Complex of the United States.

Now who historically "thought" or "imagined/envisioned" a plane flying into the Pentagon/The World Trade Center?

2 is the correct answer.

Do you honestly believe that both independently thought of the same plan?

[edit on 27-9-2009 by talisman]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:53 AM by esdad71

Originally posted by talisman
esdad71

a little off topic but it relates to some comments that were mentioned earlier

Basically we have 2 entities here:

1.We have Osama and his Al'Qaeda.

2.We have the Industrial Military Complex of the United States.

Now who historically "thought" or "imagined/envisioned" a plane flying into the Pentagon/The World Trade Center?

2 is the correct answer.

Do you honestly believe that both independently thought of the same plan?

[edit on 27-9-2009 by talisman]

Simply...yes.

The industrial military complex in the US is present now and will be for years to come. From what I have read and understood in certain books is that the US was going into Afghanistan before 9/11. It was already planned. As well as Iraq. Look at a map. They surround a certain piece of property known as Iran. These guys do not need a reason as long as they can keep making money.This is global.

As far as how could then envision,as terrorists, crashing planes into buildings?

1. A little known author known as Tom Clancy released a book in 94 called Debt of Honor. Check it out. Has something to do with terrorists crashing planes into the Capitol or the White house....like they wanted to do on 9/11.

2. This would be the same year that Ramzi Yousef suggested Project Bojinka and one year after he planned the WTC bombing in 93.

3. I am also pretty sure that there have been a few prevented attacks since 9/11..thank god for waterboarding..j/k

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 02:02 AM by talisman

Originally posted by esdad71

Originally posted by talisman
esdad71

a little off topic but it relates to some comments that were mentioned earlier

Basically we have 2 entities here:

1.We have Osama and his Al'Qaeda.

2.We have the Industrial Military Complex of the United States.

Now who historically "thought" or "imagined/envisioned" a plane flying into the Pentagon/The World Trade Center?

2 is the correct answer.

Do you honestly believe that both independently thought of the same plan?

[edit on 27-9-2009 by talisman]

Simply...yes.

The industrial military complex in the US is present now and will be for years to come. From what I have read and understood in certain books is that the US was going into Afghanistan before 9/11. It was already planned. As well as Iraq. Look at a map. They surround a certain piece of property known as Iran. These guys do not need a reason as long as they can keep making money.This is global.

As far as how could then envision,as terrorists, crashing planes into buildings?

1. A little known author known as Tom Clancy released a book in 94 called Debt of Honor. Check it out. Has something to do with terrorists crashing planes into the Capitol or the White house....like they wanted to do on 9/11.

2. This would be the same year that Ramzi Yousef suggested Project Bojinka and one year after he planned the WTC bombing in 93.

3. I am also pretty sure that there have been a few prevented attacks since 9/11..thank god for waterboarding..j/k

But does Tom Clancy have the planes going into the Pentagon and the WTC?

Do you think it then it might have been that they *allowed* 9/11 to happen? Which is just as bad. I know some members of the truth movement who think more along those lines.

There is also something to think in all of this.

On the day of 9/11 a Korean Air Jet inputed the Hijacking code. They were almost shot down over Alaska.

This was officially blamed on language problems. Which is a little hard to swallow or believe.

But for the sake of argument suppose that it was.

Another "coincidence" pops up. Just a few days prior it is now known that there was a War Game where a Korean Air Jet was Hijacked over Alaska!

There is just something that doesn't sit right with all of this.

And now just near the time of 9/11 there was a War GAme with a plane flying into the Pentagon.

Its the timing of this.

The already planned invasion of Afghanistan down to the month-Oct-2001

The similarity of these war games not to mention the close proximity of the games to the actual events in question.

The Korean Air Jet for me smells because here we have the actual inputing of the "code" and the War GAme that had happened.

To think Al'Qaeda just came up with the same plan or similar, then somehow picked the right time to do such a thing is highly suspicious.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by talisman]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 02:02 AM by impressme

reply to post by bsbray11

It is a lie in the eyes of yourself and a a very, very.very small percentage of Americans.

Have any statistics to back that up, or are you just making things up, too?

You can ask all the questions you like but you’re wasting your valuable time. Close-minded people can not see past their ego, or how they THINK the world really is. They claim they are not denying the evidence.

I show no ignorance in standing up to you and your rhetoric. I am also not denying evidence. I watched it and my opinion was that nothing was provided that would help me to understand.

What do you call it when a person is confronted with eyewitness testimony from very creditable witness that heard and saw explosions? What do you call it when a person is confronted with creditable video and audio of explosions going on and around the WTC before they came down?

It is called denying the evidence. There is no denying this.

I watched it and my opinion was that nothing was provided that would help me to understand.

He is right in his eyes, because his mind cannot comprehend explosions or the sounds of explosions in these credible videos that are showing explosions, or reading these credible eyewitness statements that went on record as of witnessing or being caught in these explosions at the WTC.

If a person really believes that our government couldn’t possibly commit such atrocities then the persons mind cannot be convinced, because the mind knows this person will not be able to handle such a shock. The brain is quite capable of preventing him, or her from seeing and hearing the truth, the brain is very clever, it’s defenses modes will click in when necessary.

There is a name for this it is called “selective seeing” and “selective hearing” it prevents people from seeing the truth, or facts with their own eyes and ears. This is very real!

Some people have a very strong belief system as how things are, “nothing “can penetrate that belief system. You can show all those videos a thousand times he will never hear the sounds of explosions the brain will automatically cancel his hearing because, his beliefs are that strong.

It’s like, when you are in love with someone but, that person really doesn’t love you, and people are telling you that your lover is a drug dealer and a creep but, you don’t hear what people are telling you because, you are so in love with that person, that your mind convinces you that everyone is telling you lies because, in your own mind this person couldn’t do such evil things in fact you are blindly in love. Happens all the time.

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:51 PM by esdad71

From IMpressme

He is right in his eyes, because his mind cannot comprehend explosions or the sounds of explosions in these credible videos that are showing explosions, or reading these credible eyewitness statements that went on record as of witnessing or being caught in these explosions at the WTC.

If a person really believes that our government couldn’t possibly commit such atrocities then the persons mind cannot be convinced, because the mind knows this person will not be able to handle such a shock. The brain is quite capable of preventing him, or her from seeing and hearing the truth, the brain is very clever, it’s defenses modes will click in when necessary.

There is a name for this it is called “selective seeing” and “selective hearing” it prevents people from seeing the truth, or facts with their own eyes and ears. This is very real!

In my mind I cannot comprehend the explosions? I suffer from selective hearing? Well, maybe when people ask for money but not in this situation.

I think the word you are all looking for is perception. How each person sees and processes a situation for themselves.

The video bsbray put up to me did not change anything. So what? He asked me to watch them and I did. I did not make a decision on my beliefs but on what I watched. I mean, the guy looked like he was on the edge of basic reasoning during the interview. This is one thing he said

It was that moment, you know, "Get away", and I looked up... and... it was nothing I would ever imagine seeing in my life. And all the things started peeling in on itself and... I mean, there was an umbrella of crap seven feet over my head that I just stared at. Somebody grabbed my shoulder and I started running and the [explitive]'s hitting the ground behind me and the whole time your hearing "thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom. thoom." So. I think I know an explosion when I hear it."

So,things are hitting behind him on the ground, meaning the pieces he just saw stripping off and Then he hears explosions...AFTER the building has collapsed. This does not sound like a demo to me, does it to you? WOuld the explosions not have been heard and then watch the building fall?

Also, the believe system you speak of? You may want to take a look in the mirror.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by esdad71]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 12:59 PM by bsbray11

reply to post by esdad71

He actually says the lobby exploded right in front of him when the building first started to "collapse" if I recall correctly. So you are distorting his words to make it seem like there was no initial explosion.

Your opinion that he was on the 'edge of basic reasoning' or however you put it is just your biased, cop-out opinion. There is no evidence that he is being irrational in recounting his testimony, it's just easier for you to think about that way. I could call any witnesses you cite similarly distressed and mentally unfit if I really wanted to be a baby about it.

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 01:15 PM by esdad71

reply to post by bsbray11

If this is true, that he saw it explode in front of him,then he is contradicting something he says later in the video. I read a transcipt of the interview and I pulled it from there. So if that is the case he loses all credibility.

He also says he does not hear any creaking in the WTC but this link says otherwise..

www.firehouse.com...

So which is it? Who should we believe? Captain Chris Boyle,18 year veteran of the FDNY or a former cop with PTSD who is reading off the Loose Change website?Do you understand my logic there?

This is not about being a baby about it and it is a shame you feel that way. I am simply looking at it as no new information. I keep waiting for a video that will have the absolute proof that I am looking for and not the rehashed garbage. I do not have to apologize for that. This is the evidence I need. I have read completely BOTH sides of the arguement and have drawn my own conclusion.

I just wish I would not get pigoenholed for simply not being convinced. I have stated many times if the evidence was there, something physical,then I would believe and I would not deny it but it does not go the other way. That is where bieng a baby comes into play...

I could understand if I simply posted that he is crazy and a liar but I tried to give a reasonable answer to my perception of him.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by esdad71]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 01:27 PM by bsbray11

reply to post by esdad71

You're not being reasonable at all. You're actively trying to pick apart what this witness is testifying to, when he's no different than any other witnesses of anything else that was seen that day. Just because he happens to have seen things you don't want to hear about, you don't like him. I listened to the whole interview myself and his story doesn't contradict itself. Though, if you would like to believe that, I'm sure you will, since it's much more comfortable than to believe he's telling the truth. Or you can believe he's delusional, can't reason anymore, belongs in a looney bin, etc., etc. Believe me, I have heard it all before and I think it's disgusting to what this man experienced that day, that people like you won't even listen to him without trying to immediately discredit what he has to say. Your slip really shows, it's so predictable how you will categorize witnesses based simply on whether or not they heard/saw explosions/bombs. Anyone who heard/saw a bomb is obviously a nutter.

Whatever floats your boat, dad.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by bsbray11]

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 01:44 PM by esdad71

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by esdad71

You're not being reasonable at all. You're actively trying to pick apart what this witness is testifying to, when he's no different than any other witnesses of anything else that was seen that day. Just because he happens to have seen things you don't want to hear about, you don't like him. I listened to the whole interview myself and his story doesn't contradict itself. Though, if you would like to believe that, I'm sure you will, since it's much more comfortable than to believe he's telling the truth. Or you can believe he's delusional, can't reason anymore, belongs in a looney bin, etc., etc. Believe me, I have heard it all before and I think it's disgusting to what this man experienced that day, that people like you won't even listen to him without trying to immediately discredit what he has to say. Your slip really shows, it's so predictable how you will categorize witnesses based simply on whether or not they heard/saw explosions/bombs. Anyone who heard/saw a bomb is obviously a nutter. Whatever floats your boat, dad.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by bsbray11]

Everything you just wrote was opinion with no fact however you feel that you are right? People like me?

I contribute to a number of FDNY 9/11 funds as do many of my family members. I was born in Queens, NY. I have family that was in the NYPD. Please, do not tell me.

I think it is #ed up that more than 70% of the first responders are still sick and there benefits were running out but the city and the federal government want to spend money on other things. However, that is a different thread. This is about hearing explosions so please address what I wrote about the man you posted.

Did he see an explosion or did he see it fall and then heard what he feels were explosions?Which is it? He states both within his own 'testimony' so I am sorry but it is too contradictory for me.

Now, here is another man who says there was an explosion and here is a link

www.nowpublic.com...

I cannot explain this one and I am still trying to research it...can you help?

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 02:01 PM by bsbray11

Originally posted by esdad71
Everything you just wrote was opinion with no fact however you feel that you are right? People like me?

Yes, people, tons of them, exactly like you, that never really thought about whether 9/11 could have been an inside job or not, you just all had the same knee-jerk reaction and haven't pulled it out from under the rug since then. The closest you come to peaking at it is Flight 93 and what is obvious even to you that our military industries have the most to gain with war.

This is about hearing explosions so please address what I wrote about the man you posted.

I did. I want to know what your evidence is for discrediting the man? Can you lay out two contradictory quotes next to each other, or are you a psychiatrist that you can diagnose him with not being able to think straight?

There is lots of testimony of bizarre explosions, esdad, even inside of WTC7. Some of it gets more media attention, some of the testimonies are just footnotes in books. Don't you think we may be able to learn something by taking them all together instead of only singling them out and picking which ones to believe and which not to?

reply posted on 27-9-2009 @ 03:01 PM by Stillresearchn911

reply to post by esdad71

I was surprised to say the least after reading that last post of yours.

As I read the link though, I had to wonder, what is so different to you about Schroeders testimony compared to other firefighters and civilians that reported exactly the same thing as he does.

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