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Originally posted by atlasastro
Originally posted by kingmonkey
reply to post by atlasastro
I think it is very significant given the position that he held. I also believe that, after such a distinguished career, it was a very bold statement to make on his part.
I didn't pretend to know or offer that I knew what evidence he had seen or hadn't seen, I just felt it was fair comment in response to his opinion being compared to someone elses. And I am in full agreement with regards to people jumping without question when ANYONE gives an opinion.
He had a lot of balls, and I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows within the establishment!
But that is not something that we can see only in admirals and other high-ranking people, that is my reason not to consider his opinions above those of "common" people.
Originally posted by jimmyx
uhmm...because if he was known to make rash statements, he never would have been trusted to reach the position of admiral. admirals tend to be pretty grounded people. he's going to be alittle more credible than a truck driver that claims he saw a UFO and is trying to sell a book.
Originally posted by itguysrule
reply to post by Copernicus
I think you are exactly right. If aliens wanted to land on the front lawn of the Whitehouse and say "Here we are!" there is probably nothing we could do to stop them. This means that either THEY don't want disclosure yet or WE (whoever they have chosen to talk to) asked them politely to wait a while and they agreed.
So why would this be the case?
In any case I would really like to know the actual story behind the story. I hope I live long enough to find out.
Originally posted by Kryties
Always good to hear about people, whose credibility is very hard to question, speaking out about this.
"It is time for the truth to be brought out in open Congressional hearings. Behind the scenes high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense."
Admiral Hillenkoetter-the first Director of the CIA, 1947-50.
February 27, 1960.
"The phenomenon of UFOs does exist, and it must be treated seriously".
Premiere of the Soviet Union.
Interview as reported in 'Soviet Youth',May 4th,1990.
"This is the first sighting in Zimbabwe where airborne pilots have tried to intercept a UFO. As far as my Air Staff is concerned, we believe implicitly that the unexplained UFOs are from civilizations beyond our planet."
Air Commodore David Thorne, Director of General Operations for the Zimbabwe Air Force in 1985.
"We had a number of reports from reputable individuals (well-educated serious-minded folks, scientists and fliers) who surely saw something.
Many of the mysteries might be explained away as weather balloons, stars, reflected lights, all sorts of odds and ends. I don't mean to say that, in the unclosed and unexplained or unexplainable instances, those were actually flying objects. All I can say is that no natural phenomena could be found to account for them... Repeat again: There were some cases we could not explain. Never could."
General Curtis LeMay
"Sightings of unexplained objects at great altitude and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major US defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles."
Dr .H Marshall Chadwell, former assistant director of the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence
"UFOs sighted in Indonesia are identical with those sighted in other countries. Sometimes they pose a problem for our Air Defence and once we were obliged to open fire on them."
Air Marshall Nurjadin Roesmin, Commander in Chief of the Indonesian Air Force
"The most spectacular UFO incident in Indonesia occurred when during the height of President Sukarno's confrontation in Malaysia, UFOs penetrated a well defended area in Java for two weeks at a stretch, and each time were welcomed with perhaps the heaviest anti-aircraft barrage in history."
Air Commodore J. Salutun, National Aerospace Council of Indonesia, and a Member of the Indonesian Parliament in 1967.
"The Air Force had put out a secret order for its pilots to capture UFOs. For the last six months we have been working with a congressional committee investigating official secrecy concerning proof that UFOs are real machines under intelligent..."
Major Donald Keyhoe,during a live TV broadcast on CBS in 1958 in which he was pulled from the air when he began to deviate from the prepared format of the programme.
"More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation, eg that they are hallucinations, the effects of light refraction, meteors, wheels falling from aeroplanes, and the like. They have been tracked on radar screens and the observed speeds have been as great as 9,000 mph. I am convinced that these objects do exist and they are not manufactured by any nation on earth. I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from an extraterrestrial source."
Air Chief Marshall Lord Dowding, Commanding Officer of the RAF during WWII.
"UFOs are real and they may come from outer space."
General Kanshi Ishikawa, Chief of Air Staff, 1967.
"These UFOs are interplanetary devices systematically observing the Earth, either manned or under remote control, or both.Information on UFOs, including sighting reports, has been and is still being officially withheld."
Colonel Joseph J. Bryan III, founder member of the CIAs psychological warfare staff, advisor to NATO
"Maximum security exists concerning the subject of UFOs."
CIA Director, Allen Dulles, 1955.
"Reliable reports indicate there are objects coming into our atmosphere at very high speeds and controlled by thinking intelligences."
Navy Admiral Delmar Fahrney in a public statement during 1957.
"Every time I get skeptical, I think of the other reports made by experienced pilots and radar operators, scientists, and other people who know what they are looking at. These reports were thoroughly investigated and they are still unknowns.
We have no aircraft on this earth that can at will so handily outdistance our latest jets... The pilots, radar specialists, generals, industrialists, scientists, and the man on the street who have told me, I wouldn't have believed it either if I hadn't seen it myself, knew what they were talking about. Maybe the Earth is being visited by interplanetary space ships".
Captain Edward J. Ruppelt
Chief of Project Blue Book
"Much evidence tells us UFOs have been tracked by radar; so, UFOs are real and they may come from outer space."
General Kanshi Ishikawa,Commander Chief of Air Staff of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force,1967.
"We have stacks of reports about flying saucers.We take them seriously when you consider we have lost many men and planes trying to intercept them".
General Benjamin Chidlaw,
Air Defense Command.
"The number of thoughtful,intelligent,educated people in full possession of their faculties who have 'seen something' and described it grows every day.We can say catergoricaly that mysterious objects have indeed appeared and continue to appear in the sky that surrounds us".
General Lionel M Chassin,
French Air Forces,
Air Defense Coodinator of the allied forces of NATO
"I must say that if listeners could see for themselves the mass of reports coming in from the airborne gendarmerie, from the mobile gendarmerie, and from the gendarmerie charged with the job of conducting investigations, all of which reports are forwarded by us to the National Center for Space Studies, then they would see that it is all pretty disturbing."
M. Robert Galley - French Minister of Defense.
"This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious."
Gen. Nathan Twining Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
"Everything is in a process of investigation both in the United States and in Spain, as well as in the rest of the world... Look, as a General, as a military man, I have the same position as the one officially held by the Ministry [of Defense]. Now, from a personal position, as Carlos Castro Cavero, I believe that UFOs are spaceships or extraterrestrial craft... The nations of the world are currently working together in the investigation of the UFO phenomenon. There is an international exchange of data. Maybe when this group of nations acquire more precise and definite information, it will be possible to release the news to the world."
"I myself have observed one [UFO] for more than an hour... It was an extremely bright object, which remained stationary there for that length of time and then shot off towards Egea de los Caballeros, covering the distance of twenty kilometers in less than two seconds. No human device is capable of such a speed."
General Carlos Castro Cavero ,Spanish Air Force
"UFOs are impossible to deny....It is very strange that we have never been able to find out the source for over two decades."
Colonel Fuijo Hayashi - Commander of the Air Transport Wing of Japan's Air Self-Defense Force
"I wish to give you a summary of what is known in the world about 'flying discs,' of what is known about the opinion of qualified experts who have dealt with this matter. The problem of 'flying discs' has polarized the attention of the whole world, but it's serious and it deserves to be treated seriously. Almost all the governments of the great powers are interested in it, dealing with it in a serious and confidential manner, due to its military interest." (O'Cruzeiro magazine, Rio de Janeiro, December 11, 1954)
Colonel Brigadier General João Adil Oliveira, Chief of the Air Force General Staff Information Service,Brazil
Many of the reports that cannot be explained have come from intelligent and technically well-qualified individuals whose integrity cannot be doubted."
Major General E.B. LeBaily, USAF Director of Information
"As a rule, [places where UFOs appear] are objects of strategic significance... [The Air Force] came up with a table with pictures of all the shapes of UFOs that had ever been recorded-about fifty-ranging from ellipses and spheres to something resembling spaceships...The study of UFOs may reveal some new forms of energy to us, or at least bring us closer to a solution.
Major General Vasily Alexeyev -Russian Space Communications Center
"... no aircraft, neither in the United States, either in the Soviet Union is currently able to achieve the speed attributed to these objects from the radars and from the observatories. These objects appear to be driven by an intelligence the way in which they fly. According to reports from scientists and technical personnel, these objects fly in formation and finish manoeuvres that seem to point out that are not completely driven from an automatic equipment. These objects are in incontestable mode the result of long investigations and highly technological and exceptional knowledge."
Rear Admiral Delmer S. Fahrney
Originally posted by karl 12
All I can say is that no natural phenomena could be found to account for them... Repeat again: There were some cases we could not explain. Never could."
General Curtis LeMay
But that is only your opinion, we have nothing from the admiral himself to confirm it.
Originally posted by sapien82
It would seem to me as though admiral hill norton , had at some point in his career been given some documentation which may have backed up or confirmed already his belief that UFO's were extraterrestrial in origin ,
Now you are using even more your imagination, and although you may be right in your hypothesis we don't have any way of knowing it.
He then felt that strongly about it that he chose to express his belief as his opinion , in hope that people like ourselves would take his word for it more so than that of joe the trucker and chantelle the pole dancing slag from essex simply because he was the head of defense of britain.
And did it worked? Considering that this interview is from June 2000 (not in the 21st century yet ), I guess it did worked, if that was the idea.
This would then make us start to press the government more in order to find out their origin , instead as he stated having the main stream media make a mockery of it.
Of course the reason he went about it in this fashion is probably because the documentation is still classified to this day as a matter of national security.
More of your opinion, but unless you are an admiral that doesn't have much weight, right?
and yes simply because of his position im sure he had more evidence of things than say the prime minister or president of the US at the time!
Have you considered the possibility that he was in an excellent position to spread dis-info? Considering that he didn't gave any real data about any case, this could have been one of those premeditated actions from TPTB to make people think what they want.
whether they were related to UFO's or ET's or not , it seems plainly obvious he was in the loop. Someone who was in his position surely would have been clued up on things of UFO origin , he just took the step others simply will not . He went out on a limb over a pond of thin ice balancing a sword on his tongue!
OK, and what is this thread's topic?
Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
Do you have anything to say that is on topic?
I don't remember discussing "what an opinion is".
So far you have been hell bent on what an opinion is,
I don't remember that either.
what makes it valid,
And much less that, specially considering that I think that all people are allowed their opinion.
who is allowed to have one,
What does that mean?
their equality amoung people,
I can imagine much more, as far as I thought I have been discussing why people give so much importance to some people's opinions and so little to other people's.
and everything else regariding opinions that one could possibly imagine.
I thought that I had been doing just that, but apparently you have a different idea of what is the topic.
Do you have anything to add to the op which is remotely on topic?
And that's why I have been making those posts, I don't see it as such a pretty big deal, specially considering where we are now, nine years after this interview.
I would love to discuss and read everyones take on this man coming out. It seems like a pretty big deal.
Originally posted by Jesus H Christ
reply to post by Jezus
I think for me personally it is exciting because people high up in the establishment whether it be military or government or civilian, are subverting or curcumventing the system and telling their stories regardless of threatened consequences. If this thing is ever to be disclosed it will be a grass roots effort, which is what I hope is happening.
I am open to the possibility that other life forms exist outside Earth, and even to the possibility that some of those have come to Earth in previous occasion and/or are still doing it, but that doesn't mean that for each and every unidentified object that is seen in the sky that must be the only possible explanation.
Originally posted by gortex
Some people are skeptical but open to the possibility of the existence of other life forms , other people are skeptical only to maintain their Skepticism.
What he said, according to that interview was:
Lord Hill-Norton is probably the highest ranking British public figure to come forward and state on record that UFOs are Interplanetary Space Craft , for a man of his rank and standing within the British establishment to make these claims is extraordinary , but to some skeptics his word counts for nothing , he is either mistaken or has an ulterior motive , all that matters is hard evidence .
“…that there is a serious possibility that we are being visited — and have been visited for many years — by people from outer space, from other civilizations; that it behooves us to find out who they are, where they come from, and what they want. This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation, and not the subject of rubbishing by tabloid newspapers.”
First anyone should confirm that what is presented as evidence is really that, it would be foolish to accept anything without any investigation.
But what if he had hard evidence , radar traces , photos , would that satisfy the hard line skeptic , or would they just spend their time trying to debunk the evidence.
That's why I said that I would love to talk with someone like him, although I don't know any admiral, from what I have seen of the high officers of the Portuguese military they are usually highly intelligent people with an excellent grasp of what is presented to them.
At some point you need to take a step back and listen to what people like Lord Hill-Norton have to say and realize that the World , Universe and Reality aren't black and white and everything cant be explained in simple terms .
Yes, but saying that admiral Hill Norton said things that he didn't said is not a good policy either.
Skepticism is fine , but Skepticism for the sake of being skeptical is closed minded and blinds you to the truth .
Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:
Further to the Written Answer by the Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean on 25 January (WA 22), why the unidentified flying objects documents referred to were classified secret; whether these documents had any caveats attached to them; and what was the reason for any such caveats.[HL1808]
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: One document was classified "Secret" with a "UK Eyes Only" caveat because it contained information about the UK air defence ground environment that could be of significant value to hostile or potentially hostile states. Associated correspondence was given the same classification. Generally, however notifications of and correspondence on the subject of "UFO" sightings are unclassified.
Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:
Whether, in line with previous ministerial commitments, they will give an undertaking not to destroy any files containing information on unidentified flying objects.[HL1811]
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: The Public Records Acts of 1958 and 1967 place a responsibility on all government departments to review the records which are generated within the department, to select those which are worthy of permanent preservation and transfer them to the Public Record Office.
It was generally the case that before 1967 all "UFO" files were destroyed after five years, as there was unsufficient public interest in the subject to merit their permanent retention. However, since 1967, given the general levels of public and occasional academic interest, it has been Ministry of Defence policy to preserve "UFO" report files. There are no plans to change this policy.
Lord Hill-Norton asked Her Majesty's Government:
How many unidentified flying object sightings were reported to the Ministry of Defence in 1998, 1999 and 2000.[HL1813]
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: The numbers of "unidentified flying object" sightings reported to the Ministry of Defence in 1998, 1999 and 2000 were as follows:
He said there was a serious possibility, he did not said it was a fact.