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A Reminder About Iran

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posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Hey everyone,

I just wanted to take a minute and go over a couple of things about Iran.

I see a lot of, what I would consider, incorrect information being spread around and I just want to clarify a little bit.

Let's take a look at some issues both old and new and look at the evidence provided.

Alright:

Question #1: Didn't Iran's President Ahmadinejad say he was going to wipe Israel off the map?

Answer #1: No. He did not say this at all. When this first broke out all the media outlets "accidentally" either mistranslated what he said or they based their reports off of mistranslated material.

The link below will explain this further for you if you have any questions:

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

A quick note on the links posted here. Some of them may indeed point to what some people may consider "conspiracy" sites and they will ignore what is written there. If this is you I encourage you to do a google search about this topic. You will find many sites will talk about this issue and you should be able to find one you can acknowledge. Facts are facts regardless of where they come from, don't let the website scare you.

Question #2: Isn't Iran building nuclear bombs or facilities and won't they attack Israel with them?

Answer #2: No. Iran is not building nukes. They are building power plants which is perfectly legal. Also, very important to know, Iran has signed the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty). What this means is they have signed an International Document agreeing not to help other countries who are not signatories to this document and they will not sell nukes or nuclear material to those countries either.

Also, everyone knows who has done any research into Israel that Israel DOES have nuclear bombs. They also have NOT signed the NPT. This is very important.

Now, some people brush this off and say big deal, Israel needs to protect itself and they are our ally, the only Democracy in the Middle East, etc, etc. I will talk more about that in a moment. In the meantime, remember Iran does NOT have nukes and has signed a legal International document while Israel HAS nukes and has NOT signed the document.

Link: en.wikipedia.org...
Link: en.wikipedia.org...
Link: en.wikipedia.org...

With those two major things out of the way let's continue.

Do I know Ahmadinejad? Of course not. Do I live in Iran? Again, no. Is it possible he is a dictator and that people hate him. This is possible. But then again, a lot of people hated Bush and a lot of people today probably hate Obama as well.

Is that enough reason to go to war and loose hundreds if not thousands more American lives? No. Absolutely not.

Now we come to the question of Israel needing to protect itself. Every nation has the right to defend itself, no questions asked. What we need to consider though is Iran really a threat to Israel?

In my honest opinion, no, and here is why:

1. Iran does not have nuclear bombs
2. Israel does have nuclear bombs
3. Iran might be able to put up a good fight but it knows it will loose
4. Iran knows that it is very likely if not guaranteed America will step in once a war starts and Iran knows it cannot take on both Israel and America

Now let me ask you a question. Why would Iran attack Israel, the very thing that Israel wants? The answer of course is they wouldn't.

No matter what you may think of him, Ahmadinejad is not a fool. Iran would not attack Israel as every single person in Tehran would be dead due to it turning into a glass parking lot. Ahmadinejad is not lil' Kim. He's got a bit more of a brain on him than that.

To this day no evidence can be found by any International Agency or by our own that Iran is working on building nuclear weapons. The articles stating they are, are coming from Israeli and other lobbies.

No matter what the evidence is some people are going to want to go to war with Iran or any other country. Some of these people are crazy, some are religious, and some probably just like to kill people. No amount of evidence will ever convince them that they are misguided but for those of you who are not trying to make the rapture come early and who are sane this post is for you. Look at the evidence all around you and then using logic, please come to your own conclusions, not the ones that are handed to you in gift wrap with a little bow on top.

I know this takes more work and research but it's really sad to see so much misinformation being spread around and people getting all rallied up about topics that they don't really know the truth about.

War is a very serious thing. Not all of us have had to see it, myself included. I pray that I never do. The people who have to fight to defend our freedoms and out country deserve to NOT have to fight unless it is absolutely ESSENTIAL to our survival. Not because of petty differences or religious intolerance.

The people we elect to our government are bombarded on a daily basis with money and other incentives to get them to support bills and measures which do the American people absolutely no good. Is is our DUTY as Americans to stand up to these corrupt individuals and put an end to this nonsense. This of course goes for other countries as well, not just America.

Alright, time for the tough part.

It is repeatedly said that Israel is our ally and the only democracy in the Middle East. I have to disagree.

Israel regularly grabs land from surrounding areas against International Law. Israel has broken so many UN Resolutions I could not list them all here.

This is a good start: en.wikipedia.org...

Also, this is ATS so I'm sure most of you know this but the attack on the USS Liberty.

Here: whatreallyhappened.com...

Alright. I hope I've shed some light on a few things. I mean no offense to anyone.




posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Let me end this by stating I am not racist against Jews and this post should in no way be taken as such. I try to value and respect people of all nationalities.

I am pointing out things I do not agree with and the people and countries that do those things. I am not pointing blame at any one race or any such thing so please do not try to state I am anti-semetic as this is nowhere close to the truth. The facts are the facts despite the people and/or countries involved.

"It is not anti-Semitic to criticize the policies of the state of Israel" - Colin Powell

I am open to debate on this and any questions anyone may have.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by mkross1983]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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Two wars in the last 40 years instigated by multiple nations against Israel and now you're saying that Iran's being picked on? Did you not see the fallout after the elections?

There's an adage that goes something like this; if every nation in the middle east laid down their arms, there would be no more war. If Israel laid down their arms, there would be no more Israel.

Color me anti-PC, a neo-con nutjob or anything else, but if ever there was a country on this Earth that has the right to be paranoid to the point of unilateralism about it's neighbors, it's Israel.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by Legion2112
 


Ok. I hear what you are saying.

Why is it do you think these other countries in the Middle East would want Israel gone?

I'm not implying anything, just looking for why you think this is the case.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by mkross1983]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 


Yea, but they are being disrespectful to the so called "Established order".. ie the West.

So the obvious answer is to alienate and destroy them.

Simple really.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by mkross1983
 


Yea, but they are being disrespectful to the so called "Established order".. ie the West.

So the obvious answer is to alienate and destroy them.

Simple really.


lol not sure if you're serious here or not.

But "Disrespect" shouldn't equal war or annihilation.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 




Was being sarcastic about the last bit, but tbh it seems like thats the idea sometimes doesn't it.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 


S&F
A little research and fact checking goes a long way to dispel urban legends and misconstrued beliefs.
I'll add this to my list of favorite posts, to refer the ignorant to; whenever they rear their heads.




posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by mkross1983
 


S&F
A little research and fact checking goes a long way to dispel urban legends and misconstrued beliefs.
I'll add this to my list of favorite posts, to refer the ignorant to; whenever they rear their heads.



Thanks warrenb, appreciate that.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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I just have this to say...

The signing of an agreement does not guarantee that the agreement will be kept. So they don't have nukes. I believe that to be true. But if someone asked if they wanted to buy a nuke... Do you think they would refer to the non-proliferation treaty to find out if it was legal? If they found it WAS illegal, but they REALLY REALLY wanted the nuke, would they pass anyway?

I believe they're not building nukes, like you do, but do I believe that if they had the capability, they wouldn't? No I do not.

Every government's got black ops. We do, they do... everybody does things that no one knows about. You admit that you don't know much about Iran, but you offer a lot of trust to a nearly rogue government and figurehead with pre-violent rhetoric, which he uses to incite hatred and distrust in his countrymen of other peoples in the world. Your intentions are misplaced and naive.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Question #1.........
You're right, he didn't say that in that context. But we all know what he meant.

Com'n, take your head outta your butt.

Question #2....
Oh because they signed a peice of paper, they won't provide nuclear material to "other nations".... 1st off, that doesn't mean the won't... 2ndly, why would they need to provide this to other countries when Hezzbollah is right in their own nation?



facepalm.jpg



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by mkross1983
 


For one, there's over two thousand years of precedent for it (Egyptians/Israelites, Israelites/Caananites, Israel and pretty much every other tribe that bordered the Mediterranean), two, Jerusalem is the religious center for two of the three major world religions and most Arab nations don't want to share, and three there have been two instances of other middle eastern nations wanting Israel "gone" in the last 40 years alone... ever hear of the six-day war? The Yom-Kippur war? In each instance, you had the Jordanians (except in '73), the Syrians, the Egyptians and the Palestianians outright attack Israel on multiple fronts and I doubt it was with the intention of leaving any of the Israelis around, you get what I'm saying? Simply put, to deny that the Israelis have been assaulted by nations intent on wiping Israel off the map, or for that matter, that Achmudinejad's comments could be taken any other way, is to deny historical fact.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Right. I have a solution.

Just nuke Jerusalem so nobody can have it. That will end this juvenile crap once and for all.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Legion2112
Two wars in the last 40 years instigated by multiple nations against Israel and now you're saying that Iran's being picked on? Did you not see the fallout after the elections?

There's an adage that goes something like this; if every nation in the middle east laid down their arms, there would be no more war. If Israel laid down their arms, there would be no more Israel.

Color me anti-PC, a neo-con nutjob or anything else, but if ever there was a country on this Earth that has the right to be paranoid to the point of unilateralism about it's neighbors, it's Israel.


This could be said for America as well. If we laid down our arms we'd be destroyed. I'm not saying Israel should lay down it's arms or not defend itself.

The key world is defend.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by DeltaChaos
 


I understand every country has black ops and I expect Iran does as well. But why should we attack Iran over their black ops versus any other country? Just because Bush started preemptively attacking targets doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. We should have all learned that from Iraq where the reasons we went to war where not based on any solid information.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Question #1.........
You're right, he didn't say that in that context. But we all know what he meant.

Com'n, take your head outta your butt.

Question #2....
Oh because they signed a peice of paper, they won't provide nuclear material to "other nations".... 1st off, that doesn't mean the won't... 2ndly, why would they need to provide this to other countries when Hezzbollah is right in their own nation?



facepalm.jpg


How do you know what he meant? Whenever we take someones words and interpret them however we want that can be dangerous. Do you have any proof?

We could talk forever about Hezzbollah and the arguments surrounding them. The Constitution is just a piece of paper but a lot of people seem to respect it still and what it represents. Can we go against it? Obviously we can, just look around. But it will have consequences and shouldn't be taken lightly.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Legion2112
reply to post by mkross1983
 


For one, there's over two thousand years of precedent for it (Egyptians/Israelites, Israelites/Caananites, Israel and pretty much every other tribe that bordered the Mediterranean), two, Jerusalem is the religious center for two of the three major world religions and most Arab nations don't want to share, and three there have been two instances of other middle eastern nations wanting Israel "gone" in the last 40 years alone... ever hear of the six-day war? The Yom-Kippur war? In each instance, you had the Jordanians (except in '73), the Syrians, the Egyptians and the Palestianians outright attack Israel on multiple fronts and I doubt it was with the intention of leaving any of the Israelis around, you get what I'm saying? Simply put, to deny that the Israelis have been assaulted by nations intent on wiping Israel off the map, or for that matter, that Achmudinejad's comments could be taken any other way, is to deny historical fact.



There have been a lot of wars and bloodshed in the Middle East. Not every war was against Israel, Israel has started it's fair share as well, you can't leave out half the story now.

Jerusalem is supposed to be an International City but Israel is the one shutting out Palestinians and against UN Resolutions.

Look I understand Israel has threats, every country does. But that doesn't give them the right to do a lot of the things they do. And it doesn't give them the right to attack Iran without provocation which has not occurred.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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I just want to take you into alternative universe.
Other there my analog lives in Persia. Persia had its share of wars with its neighbors , has strong military and (according to a lot of sources) even nukes. But lately a fierce rival appears. It is called Zion. Zion was Israel and had very good relations with Persia but in 1980s religious fanatics took other and since then they heavily invest in military programs - like rockets with range that can reach Persia and increased payload. At the same time they also invest into nuclear program that they insist is for peaceful purposes. At the same time they arm militias on Persian border, and there were several bloody conflicts involving those organizations. At the same time Zions (that never ever call Persia - Persia, but always Shah regime) constantly say that Shah regime will disappear and similar threats.
Persia is not correct to try and prevent Zion from getting its nuclear program advanced enough to produce nukes,even potentially? How can you be sure that those fanatics in Zion who count days to Messaiah coming and declared that they are going to bring him by force, if needed - would not use nuke eventually?



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by mkross1983
reply to post by DeltaChaos
 


I understand every country has black ops and I expect Iran does as well. But why should we attack Iran over their black ops versus any other country? Just because Bush started preemptively attacking targets doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. We should have all learned that from Iraq where the reasons we went to war where not based on any solid information.


Woah, who said anything about attacking Iran? That's not what I understood this thread to be about. I don't think we have any reason to attack Iran, but I also don't believe them to be an immediate threat to US.

Like I said in that Brzezinski thread, we should at all costs be trying to prevent Iran from going to war with anyone right now, if only to avoid the inevitable spillover, were we involved or not.

And like I also said in that other thread, I would never condone any preemptive strike without confirmed, timely intel.

All I'm saying here, is that if you give them the benefit of the doubt instead of keeping a wary eye on them, they can slip right under your nose. When I say they, I refer to any regime that supports, funds, is idealogically similar to, or in communication with any known (or unknown) extremist organization.



[edit on 21-9-2009 by DeltaChaos]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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Here is just one facet of the the Middle Eastern conflict(s) that concerns me:

Russia agrees to supply nuclear fuel to Iran to alleviate concerns of weapons grade production.

Well, good. So Russia will provide the nuclear fuel, and Iran will ship the spent fuel rods back to Russia.

But......... rut roh..... there's a glitch possibly when we read about Iran testing and using advanced centrifuges.

Gee, I felt a lot safer for the Middle East, when Iran only had 5,000 centrifuges running. The lowgrade enrichment of uranium -- as it arrives from Russia -- is appropriate only for nuclear plant fuel. Further enrichment of said fuel pretty much supports only one conclusion, and apparently the UNSC has stepped up sanctions to attempt to stop Iran from further enriching this uranium (this was as of 2008, when Iran had a mere 9000 operating centrifuges.

So, you can see why I might now be able to fully choke down the idea that Iran is now into over 10,500 centrifuges solely "for peaceful purposes."

P.S. -- as to Question #1 posed in the OP........... I don't speak the language, so I cannot affirm or discount the interpretation of President A's statement. I can only infer the meaning from his stern fist-shaking shouts and the crowd reaction. I wish we could get a truly vetted source for this interpretation, one that is biased in neither direction.



[edit on 21/9/09 by argentus]



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