Carbon levels dramatically changed 7,000 years ago. Sudden human knowledge?, page 1

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Topic started on 21-9-2009 @ 09:31 AM by dbates

For 400,000 years carbon and methane in the atmosphere followed a pattern dependent on predictable changes in earth's axis and orbit. Then 7,000 years ago ...

Climatologists agree that approximately 7,000 years ago carbon levels took an unexpected turn.

There was also an unaddressed issue: 5,000 years ago there was an unexpected rise in methane gas.... Doing research, Ruddiman found that 5,000 years ago Asia experienced a massive expansion of rice paddies.

news.mongabay.com...

This article isn't a discussion on creationism, but it does point to a dramatic change in the Earth's environment 5,000 - 7,000 years ago. These figures line up with timelines in the Bible. For instance the current year on the Jewish calendar (As seen on most Jewish papers), which marks years from the creation of man, is currently at 5770.

Surely there's something to this. What event would end the cycle of 400,000 years of constant, predictable, steady carbon levels on Earth? Why the sudden interest in agriculture and farming? For reasons yet unknown to us, mankind suddenly began dominating the planet a little over 5,000 years ago. Why the sudden increase in knowledge?

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 09:50 AM by rogerstigers

Honestly, that's a good question. I can't say I have ever located anything that explains it well.

I personally feel that we have been at a similar or higher level of technological acheivement as we are now at least once before in the past. We seem to bloom and fade in cycles, almost as if we never seem to get it right and the game resets. Some more moden examples would include the Indus Valley civilization which had indoor plumbing and other "comforts of home" that we would recognize, the Egyptians which has some pretty remarkable construction, textile, and printing techniques, and others.

It is also possible, I imagine, that it could also have been a underground methane bubble.. something like the methane lake on the bottom of the ocean suddenly letting loose and breaching the surface.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:06 AM by mikerussellus

reply to post by dbates

So, global warming gave rise to a civilization that decries global warming.

Is there an F8 key for the human race? Because we are in serious need of a global re-boot.

Nice article.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:10 AM by Hazelnut

reply to post by dbates

Clearly, the accepted version of history fall short on the facts.

Therefore, the accepted version of history must be a manufactured belief system imposed on the rest of us as a method of control. He who controls the information controls the population and the direction of its growth/decline.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:45 AM by dbates

reply to post by Hazelnut

So you have rightly deduced that I was hinting as to whether or not the Jewish history records had any credibility? That's actually only a supporting argument to the real question. That being "Why the sudden change in human behavior"? So don't get sidetracked and make that the focus.

The more curious point is the comparison between the last 7,000 years and the 400,000 years that preceded it. Even if your theory was that humans in control hid the knowledge of the origins of man, that wouldn't explain the scientific data that shows man's sudden conquest of the environment. In the past the environment dominated all life on the planet, but now humans seem to be able to direct the climate with some newly found mental skill.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:48 AM by Kryties

Perhaps the aliens living here at the time were attempting to pass on their knowledge to humans and when the knowledge of agriculture started to spread we instantly see a rise in CO2 levels.

Makes a few assumptions yes, but otherwise I believe it's a perfectly workable theory. It takes into account stories of ancient civilisations, it changes the whole meaning of the bible (and yes I honestly believe that the bible makes perfect sense when you think of God/Jesus/Angels in terms of Aliens and Heaven as being Space/The Universe) and it actually makes a lot of sense if you open your mind to the possibility.

An alternative is that instead of it being aliens, it is actually the last surviving remnants of an advanced human civilisation that reached the peak of technological advancement millenia ago and suffered near destruction from a cataclysmic event. The survivors taught the more primitive cultures agriculture and BOOM we have a large CO2 rise.

I like the first theory more though

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:49 AM by BaronVonGodzilla

Originally posted by dbates
Surely there's something to this. What event would end the cycle of 400,000 years of constant, predictable, steady carbon levels on Earth? Why the sudden interest in agriculture and farming? For reasons yet unknown to us, mankind suddenly began dominating the planet a little over 5,000 years ago. Why the sudden increase in knowledge?

Just as you say about how far back the Jewish year goes, so too does China and other civilizations have long, well documented history in the past.

I think China, India, Egypt, Greece and other such places were all once as technologically advanced as we are, in certain respects.

Certainly the Antikytheria Mechanism shows that we once had a much higher level of technology in olden times, besides the wheel and the cart and ox.

I think once you get to the point of having a really good civilization with a good, strong industrial revolution, you may start quickly going from tech such as a book to tech such as the internet.

A book probably won't survive too long in the long scheme of things, but, it will still last longer than the internet.

If we lost all power tomorrow and never had electricity again, imagine in 10 years trying to explain what the internet was to your child. It would be like explaining a magical spellbook or something, totally unbelievable and indescribable.

So I think the reason for this is because 5000 years ago we probably had alot of industry and things going on that really taught the planet a lesson. And we continue this tradition today.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:53 AM by Kryties

reply to post by dbates

I have never believed that the accepted version of our history is correct. Ever since I was a kid in school taking history lessons in the 1st grade I have always found holes in the story where others can't see it or blatantly deny the obvious.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:58 AM by Avenginggecko

reply to post by dbates

Isn't it more likely that this is due to the advent of farming and not the God of the Bible?

Handy inventions tend to spread quickly in populations. Group X figures out how to farm, shows Group Y how, Group Z conquers Y and learns agriculture, etc. etc. and in the space of a few decades you have large swaths of people farming.

The sudden interest in farming is probably due to the fact that people prefer to maintain a steady, predictable food source with a defensible position rather than hauling their tent around in the forest looking for berries and hoping they'll find enough to get through winter.

Once mankind learned how to make its own food supply, that established the first basic necessity for a stable civilization. So instead of spending all of your time getting your next meal like the rest of the animal kingdom, you can learn how to make weapons, build structures, chart the skies, etc.

If you're interested at all in stuff like this, there's a man called Jared Diamond that's done a ton of research on the rise and fall of human civilizations. He goes into detail about how Europeans and inhabitants of the fertile crescent were able to establish civilizations and advance, while other civilizations (central Africans, for example) kind of stagnated.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 10:59 AM by Kryties

reply to post by BaronVonGodzilla

I used to work with an Indian bloke who used to spend our entire shifts together telling me about India and it's history and customs. They have a fascinating history that stretches back hundreds of thousands of years, maybe even millions from memory.

What irks me is that most historians and scholars agree that "civilised" history only goes back a few thousand years - when there are many countries histories that tell a completely different story spanning many hundreds of thousands of years - but are discounted.

Does not make one iota of sense to me.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:03 AM by John Matrix

Our creator gave man dominion over the earth and all living things. Knowledge was given to man in order for man to impliment or exercise that dominion. This is confirmed in the ancient texts that are referred to as the book of Genesis.

A very thought provoking find Sir. S&F.

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:10 AM by Kryties

Originally posted by John Matrix
This is confirmed in the ancient texts that are referred to as the book of Genesis.

Would this be the same book of Genesis that makes a distinction between "Sons of God" and "Daughters of Men"? Almost implying that the "Sons of God" were, in fact, not human?

[edit on 21/9/2009 by Kryties]

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:19 AM by dbates

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
Handy inventions tend to spread quickly in populations. Group X figures out how to farm, shows Group Y how, Group Z conquers Y and learns agriculture, etc. etc. and in the space of a few decades you have large swaths of people farming.

That's exactly my point. Nuclear weapons were only invented just a few decades ago, and now dozens of nations have them. Humans excel in copying technology. Just ask the recording industry.

Here's the catch. We can easily see how some technologies developed later. Flying for instance is not necessary for life. Air, water, food, sleep and reproduction. These are the most basic and fundamental needs that humans have. It would be accurate to say that man has needed food since the beginning of time. Why would he wait 400,000 years to develop a dependable method for obtaining food? There is no logical explanation for this question. None that we know of at least.

Based on the speed that human 2 copies human #1, you could make the argument that the knowledge of large scale farming came into existence *snap* about 5,000 years ago. Why the sudden change when this has always been a need? The only possibility I see is that no one had this knowledge prior to this era. But why not when this is such a basic need? Was the intelligence of man suddenly stimulated and by what?

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:24 AM by Phage

Perhaps the retreat of glaciers 10,000 years ago had something to do with it. Perhaps the warmer and wetter climate made it possible to grow crops on a large scale. Perhaps, as a result of the use of agriculture, it became possible for animal husbandry to be carried out on a larger scale. Perhaps, with the abundant food supply provided it became possible (and necessary) for people to stay in one area and grow into large populations. Perhaps the rise of civilization 7,000 years ago had something to do with an increase in methane levels.

Naw, that's just crazy thinking. I'm not sure I buy the theory presented in the OP but agriculture and civilization did not "suddenly" appear. Unless you consider two or three thousand years sudden.

[edit on 9/21/2009 by Phage]

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:26 AM by Kryties

I have a question:

If anyone comes into this thread and suggests a theory other than God and religion, are they to be ignored and/or shunned? I simply ask this because if they are I will not waste my time here, but if all theories are permissible and accepted for debate I will hang around and join in as best I can

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:45 AM by dbates

reply to post by Kryties

I would feel neglected if someone didn't challenge the religious aspect. Honestly I was hoping that someone would. I don't visit ATS to convince others of my opinion, but rather to test my own. Bring out the flame thrower.

We've already seen hints to other possibilities. A large methane release from the ocean, aliens, a retreating glacier stage. All good possible scenarios. What did you have in mind?

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:46 AM by Avenginggecko

reply to post by dbates

But for the "intelligent nudge" theory to really work, wouldn't we need to see the advent happen throughout the globe at a similar time?

Much of Africa still lived as hunter-gatherers, except for the areas near to the Fertile Crescent and in the far South, and it took Asia another two millenia to catch up to the Europeans and Fertile Crescent farmers in agriculture (if this article is acurate).

It seems likely that two basic conditions of agriculture had not been met: either the environment wasn't conducive to farming or the culture wasn't. This doesn't discount your theory though! It could have been "planned" that humans wouldn't start large scale farming until these time periods.

There's quite a few possible factors involved here. We know the human brain has continued to evolve through time and that even now that natural selection doesn't play near the role it used to in our lives, our brains continue to process information faster and faster with every generation. We know that even though some ideas seem so basic and so necessary that they'd be obvious to anyone, sometimes those ideas never come to life because we're so wrapped in our current environment that we don't think outside the box (Duh, Newton! Of course what goes up must come down!).

And we know that agriculture is heavily dependent on a suitable environment and a stable culture.

It could be that there was sudden divine intervention into humanity at that time, or it could be that fate hadn't been on our side for the last 400,000 years.

Then one day, someone got bored in the tribe, planted a seed in the ground, and watched it grow. And they thought, "Hmm...let's plant some more!" Viola!

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:49 AM by Kryties

reply to post by dbates

Please don't get me wrong, I was simply clarifying that point

I was not trying to be an ass about it or anything hehe. I love a good discussion and debate about our origins as long as everyone is allowed their say and certain opinions are not shunned.

Anyways, back on topic, I haven't got anything else yet but those I have already posted - trust me I'm working my little creative brain on it though

reply posted on 21-9-2009 @ 11:52 AM by dbates

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
But for the "intelligent nudge" theory

Thank you! I was trying to come up with a good name for this idea and that fits perfectly. Also I didn't want to get too specific and dive into any one religion. I was thinking more about the timing of large scale crops alongside the history of humans. You've just about read my mind. I often wonder if I come across clearly enough. So either I'm making sense, or I'm not the only nut-case. Either scenario is a relief.

Then one day, someone got bored in the tribe, planted a seed in the ground, and watched it grow. And they thought, "Hmm...let's plant some more!" Viola!

Funny but entirely possible.