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I'm not disregarding the cause. Whatever has a mind of it's own may alter events and may alter objects that come in it's way. Things that bounce may bounce in a predictable way, once there is interaction but not in a direct way with an element that is not predefined then random takes over.
This caused the wind to blow and move the object, but the wind was not the cause, the cause was an unpredictable element making the wind change the path of the object. In the end it was not the animal who moved the object, but at the same time it was in an indirect way.
If the window were to be open from the start or closed we would know the direction of the object, but since you do not know if it will be open or not because something may open it then you got a random effect, a random effect with two options, it's either a or b.
Everything is predictable, motion,direction, everything can be calculated
until the unpredictable steps in. It can either be a creature , god, a black hole and so on, who knows what is out there in the universe, what shapes things and makes them move and then things get a mind of their own sort of speak. It's why life is so special. To me evolution is BS, evolution was calculated from the begining, a ploted course if you want to get us here where we are today. For me all of this is enought to try and accept that there is something bigger than us, a powerful force on a global scale that will open and close the window whenever it wants.
Now on a lower plain of existance there are alot of things that can create chances, one of those things are mistakes.
Unknown does not equal random, it only means an unknown cause, thus the effect still had a cause and not some random attribute associated with the effect.
Everything exists within the universe, I'm assuming you and I can agree to as much as neither of us has evidence to dictate otherwise. With that in mind, anything interacting with anything either directly or indirectly is based on a set of naturalistic laws as governed by the universe, in so much that any indirect effect still maintains an indirect causation. We're still left wondering what is truly random.
The wind is not an unpredictable element in the equation as it follows a specific set of laws as governed by the universe at large. It need not matter if YOU can personally 'predict' which way the wind will blow at any given moment, all that matters is that the direction and strength of a gust of wind is still following the laws of our universe. There is no randomness in following those laws.
the answer is the msot simple one in the Universe.
Originally posted by ineverknew
Like everyone else out there, I'm looking for answers to my cosmic questions, and God is one of them. A lot of posts here at this great website seem to ask such things as "How literally do you take the Bible," etc. What I want to know is, do you believe there is a God, if you do, why, and if you don't, why not?
Now my definition of God is an entity that is omnipotent and omnipresent. Now, I don't mind if you think God is dead, but back it up. Feel free to explore the question of "what is God," but try to tell me...is there a God?
Unknown effect, not unknown element, the element is known but will cause a unknown effect out of the 3 elements that are on the table for example.
So by sticking your hand in the fan it will outcome to what?
The fan will break down , the fan will stop, the fan will cut off your finger, and lets just say it's not how powerfull the fan is, it's how you put your hand in the fan, and since you do not have microscopic precision you will get a random effect out of 3 things, it's one of those 3. Now if something predictable would hit the spining fan you would know the outcome having time to calculate how and where it would hit knowing what is going to happen.
Can you predict in a game of chess who will win, or better close your eyes and throw something and see where it lands.
Everything random is predifined so I don't get what you are trying to say.
Random is not an unknown element is just a unpredictable effect that exists in reality and it's trigered by a singluarity.
Things that you can not predict are random, random is not new.
In other words without influence one thing will do what is supose to do "out of many that it can do" With an influence of a singularity it will do one other thing out of many things that it can do depending on how it's influenced.
I think you are mistaking random with an original effect that does not exist yet, like a random event that will happen that does not exist yet.
You are confusing random effects with unknown elements that produce random effects. Random does not focus on the element but on what it will produce out of the known elements.
As for the unknown.
The mistery is not the elements but what elements it will produce out of 3 elements for example. Because it's unpredictable it's original, it's new only in this view, the elements are not new. Can you get down on it and calculate it and then say for sure, I know the outcome? I would say no. To me that is special. If you can stand by this in a fraction of a second as it happens"as it is decided" by who? by mister random of course. Then you would be able to say, I was there, I saw it tick.
In this case the cat did produce a random effect but from known elements.
Originally posted by ineverknew
reply to post by infinite
I love playing devil's advocate (and I'll do the same when someone says there is a God). So let me ask: just because the Bible states that God, or Yahweh, never mentioned dinosaurs, stars, ect., what makes the Bible the end-all be-all of religious texts? And who says that any of the current religions are right; maybe they're all wrong and God exists in some form that we have not theorized about yet.
And by the way, I agree that most organized religion is in it for the money.