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Point Blank: Is there a God, why and why not?

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posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Because in the end it is all for the One Creator which is you. Your serving yourself and other selves in the smaller illusive perception, but in the larger picture all is a singular being.




posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by Psychonaughty
 


Then your assertion as to what is evil and what is good is still invalidated.

Second Line.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


No your just advoiding the conclusion, merely using narrow perceptive logic.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Psychonaughty
 



No your just advoiding the conclusion, merely using narrow perceptive logic.


You have never made a logical conclusion to avoid to begin with. How is a contradictory statement a conclusion?



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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Sirnex, tell me. Since you say everything has cause and effect, what is the cause of the material creation if it does not emanate from the divine?



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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why you must think of God as a being, or a man?

What if God is literally everything? What is "God" Is just a word, not a name? No more a word than dark matter, or black hole?

What is God is the invisible fabric that holds everything in existence together? Like some ultra sensitive spider web that transcends the ideals of space and time where something on one side of the universe affects something in another universe?

And what if this ideal of God can create at will, and has always existed?

Is that really much different than believing something came from nothing? Is that really much different than believing in the beginning there was absolutely nothing? No time, no space, no stars, no gasses, no salt, no sand, no water, nothing.

Then.
Poof. Everything was there?


The bible does not call God a man. The bible says man was created in the image of God. If you believe in God, then you believe in the idea of a spirit. Again, a spirit is just a word used by us to describe an ideal.

What is God is a spirit, and we call that spirit "existence"?

I believe that at some point, especially scientific philosophers, needs to realize that they don't know everything, and they must force themselves to resist the temptation to say something is for sure there, or for sure not there, because we, as human beings, really don't have a damn clue about anything

is there a God?

Sure, if you want there to be.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by bargoose
 



Sirnex, tell me. Since you say everything has cause and effect, what is the cause of the material creation if it does not emanate from the divine?


That is a question that no one has ever been able to answer as of yet. I would also ask where did the divine come from? If you are able to willingly settle upon the answer that it just always existed, then why can't the universe have always just existed? Why does a less complex thing such as the universe require an infinitely more complex creator, but that infinitely more complex creator requires no creation of itself?



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Personally, I don't believe in something that was created by Man. It's something to make us feel significant in this giant place called the Universe.

To answer your question, when you die, you'll know. And if he does exist, hell, I hope I can weasel my way in.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



Why does a less complex thing such as the universe require an infinitely more complex creator, but that infinitely more complex creator requires no creation of itself?


Interesting way of looking at it.

Can God Create a Mountain so massive that not even God could move it?

But then, we have to step back and realize that humans created their own definition of "logic"

There are galxies's captured on film that are so massive that modern physics say it's impossible for them to exist

yet we have a picture of it.

we dont' know everything, and to pretend we do is simply fatal.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 



But then, we have to step back and realize that humans created their own definition of "logic"


Logic has nothing to do with the example given, he either can or he can't and either way, he ends up not being all powerful.


There are galxies's captured on film that are so massive that modern physics say it's impossible for them to exist


Personally, I believe our modern standard theory of the universe is wrong myself.


we dont' know everything, and to pretend we do is simply fatal.


Would this not also include the blind belief in a supernatural deity?



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



Would this not also include the blind belief in a supernatural deity


yes, it does. I'm not trying to say that i believe God is a man with a grey beard up on a cloud watching me. That is one side of the extreme


the other side is to say that God does not exist at all.

Yes, there is absolutely no proof God exists other than faith.

But, there is also no proof that says God can't exist. And please, don't give me a flying spaghetti monster argument, it's just a cheap cop-out.

Im not talking about a Man when i say God. I'm talking about a word associated with an idea.

Like the word "atom" associated with that thing that makes up everything



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 


The Infinite One is everything. All is one.

Do not have faith, have trust.

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Snarf
 



yes, it does. I'm not trying to say that i believe God is a man with a grey beard up on a cloud watching me. That is one side of the extreme


Any blind belief would suffice to be part of the fatal side that you describe.


the other side is to say that God does not exist at all.


I don't discredit the possibility of a God like entity, but I do discredit the invented man made creation of this entity as depicted in whatever form or description given without evidence.


But, there is also no proof that says God can't exist. And please, don't give me a flying spaghetti monster argument, it's just a cheap cop-out.


I disagree that it is a cop-out as it is just as valid as any other created concepts of deity.


Im not talking about a Man when i say God. I'm talking about a word associated with an idea.


No, you are talking about your own invented conception of this entity without any evidence to base that invented concept upon. Believing in that concept blindly without evidence is just as bad.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 



No, you are talking about your own invented conception of this entity without any evidence to base that invented concept upon. Believing in that concept blindly without evidence is just as bad.


well thats just where we'll have to agree to disagree then. Because it's pretty obvious that we're both too bull headed to concede.

I'm not saying that i believe that this is what God is, im offering it as a possibility. You, however, are saying that you deny the existence of God.

You are saying, without any proof what so ever, that you know something to be factual and truthful.

That sir, is truly the definition of ignorance.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Snarf
 


well thats just where we'll have to agree to disagree then. Because it's pretty obvious that we're both too bull headed to concede. I'm not saying that i believe that this is what God is, im offering it as a possibility. You, however, are saying that you deny the existence of God. You are saying, without any proof what so ever, that you know something to be factual and truthful. That sir, is truly the definition of ignorance.


What part of my last post did you not understand?


I don't discredit the possibility of a God like entity, but I do discredit the invented man made creation of this entity as depicted in whatever form or description given without evidence.


I certainly did not say I deny the existence of a God like entity, but that I deny the existence of your invented concept of that entity as you have put forth no evidence for your invented concept of it. Obviously you are not well versed in what ignorance is and your reading comprehension is a tad bit lacking.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


I'm done with this thread, posters seem to still think of the Creator as a seperate entity, when in fact they are the Creator, just as everything is.

Adonai.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by Psychonaughty
 


I am willing to hear you out if you can respond without contradicting and invalidating your argument every single time.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Psychonaughty
 


I am willing to hear you out if you can respond without contradicting and invalidating your argument every single time.


Imagine if you will an infinite omnipotent being living as sea of perfection decides to play make believe and begins by breaking itself up in a perfect fashion so as to break up the monotony of infinite perfection. The perfection of the breakup is perfectly realized from the omnipotent beings perspective, but from the perspective of a fragment, not pefectly realized. As these fragments 'coalesce' and become 'more one', they realize more of this truth, but in so doing, also begin to realize that the fragmentation was done on purpose ... quite the conundrum ... as how is this realization to be handled? Should all the other smaller fragments be informed of this realization? Maybe the omnipotent being wanted this experience, as it was done purposefully, and the experience of each fragment as experienced by the whole, and other larger coalesced fragments, was unique and novel and desirable for its novelty. To alter this would be to go against the greater will of the original omnipotent beings perspective.

A single fragment with this knowledge (or what it can hold from it's perspective, ever-incomplete until unity), might choose to use its knowledge (that it cannot be separated, and may as well 'enjoy the ride' as 'master') for its own 'benefit' ... which is also a unique experience ... treasured equally (unconditionally) by the omnipotent being (upon unity ... which is always as time is an illusion) ...

Other fragments with this knowledge (or what it can hold from it's perspective, ever-incomplete until unity), might choose to rejoice in the knowledge of future unity, and work together within the illusion until unity ... also a unique experience ...


This statement that I expressed in an earlier post is purely ethical, it does not get less hypocritical than this.

You must understand that from a perspective of thinking that entities are seperate this will not make any sense, nor from the perspective of pure skepticism that is so skeptical all truths are merely lies within the perception of that certain skeptic.

Evil and Good are merely human expressions of different paths, each path leading to unity either way, and each path both beautiful in the discernment of the One Creator that which we all are. In the end there is no evil or good there merely IS, it is just the path you choose to get to Unity. The word end I shall use with caution, as there is never an end, everything always has been in unity. Only does this illusion of seperateness teach us (the Creator) about himself from every experience by every entity, all experiences no matter what are purely as beautiful as the rest.


[edit on 4-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Psychonaughty
 


And thus, no matter what we do, it does not matter!

Your simply amazing.



posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Psychonaughty
 


And thus, no matter what we do, it does not matter!

Your simply amazing.


Exactly.

I'm sorry if your looking for some revengeful entity that damns the 'bad' people to hell for eternity, but that is not how it is. All is how it should be and will be as it always has been.


The Creator is attempting to gain in knowledge and appreciation of Itself. The Creator wishes to know Itself. Thusly, it sends forth parts of Itself within illusion (that which it created) to see what will happen and to learn from the colors created in the palette of emotions that you have created through many experiences and incarnations. This palette contains your beauty and is unique to you, so that you can teach the Creator that which no one else in all of Creation is able to teach. For you are the only one of you in all of the infinite universe. Thusly, it is your gift to the Creator that comes from you, that is greatly desired. You cannot please the Creator by being someone else but only by being most truly and deeply yourself.



[edit on 4-11-2009 by Psychonaughty]





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