Point Blank: Is there a God, why and why not?

reply to post by sirnex

Any History book would suffice and the common knowledge that all monotheistic denominations all worship the same Abrahamic God. I can't find an exact number or chart listing how many polytheistic deities were worshiped in the past and today. All I can point you to is google for now which will provide a stepping stone into the various polytheistic beliefs that have been followed well before the advent of monotheistic beliefs.

Yeah I tried to google it for the statistics but came up empty.

But, let's suppose the number of people for monotheism does outnumber the amount of people claiming personal experience *today* alone for polytheism. Given that in the last at least 7,000 years of recorded human history only 2000 to 3000 of that has practiced monotheism. That leaves four thousand extra years of personal experiences for more than one God. So, even if the amount of monotheists today outnumber the polytheists, they still don't outnumber the amount of polytheistic personal experience for the whole of recorded human history.

Actually the bible dates the earth to somewhere around 6500BC. That would put Monotheism at around 8500 years. It also lists a record of names from the Adam on down to show continuity. The division of the nations is also talked about, which is curious to me because I don't know of another record of it. It also speaks of when the land divided which, to me anyway, implies continental drift.

Now let's play with the idea that most if not all of these polytheistic religions all speak of a trickster who messes with humanity. Would it not be reasonable to conclude that this trickster will pull any trick he can to mess with us? To make us not see the reality of the universe? To blanket our ability to see the reality that there are many God's exerting influence over our lives? A three thousand year trick that has caused more grief for the human race than any other religious concept. The only reason monotheism has taken such a strong hold on the world's population is through it's violent and political beginning. It was *law* that you had to believe in only one God and if you didn't the monotheists would wipe you out as blasphemous heretics and transgressors. What a perfect trick to play against us! Get man to so strongly believe in something to the point where he will kill without question, without thought and without regret. If polytheism is more true, then this trickster God has just put on one hell of a show for himself to enjoy, the exact kind of thing's' he has done only on a much larger stage now. Rather than mess with people individually, let's mess with all of them and pit them against each other in a constant state of war.

Got it. Now since Monotheistic has been recorded to be 8500 years old, lets look at it this way. I am sure you have heard of Lucifer. The fallen one. Nephilim, the fallen ones. If we are going to play then it would not be absurd to think that Lucifer and all the other fallen ones would go forth to the other lands and pretend to be their gods, hence calling for human sacrifices. When it came to the ones whom God had chosen to follow him, for it was his divine right, he did not play. For those that worshiped the false gods, Lucifer and his angles, Gods did not hold back his divine judgment. For their ancestor, Cain, knew the truth and went his own way after killing his brother.

Now I am not sure if all the bible is meant to be translated literally, but the things that it says does seem to hold a lot of meaning.

reply to post by Conclusion


There is no conflicts between "gods".... There only is an original thought an infinite thought of the infinite possibilities.

Lucifer is called the light bringer for a reason.

The bible is a fabrication of true events, a fairy tale based on fact. A core of truth drowning in a sea of perversions.




[edit on 27-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Conclusion

Actually the bible dates the earth to somewhere around 6500BC. That would put Monotheism at around 8500 years. It also lists a record of names from the Adam on down to show continuity. The division of the nations is also talked about, which is curious to me because I don't know of another record of it. It also speaks of when the land divided which, to me anyway, implies continental drift.

Well, let's look at this from another perspective. The bible does give a specific age, but that age does not coincide with scientific discoveries. Whereas some polytheistic religions give an older description and at least one dates their civilization to thousands of years before the biblical account. That would imply to me that the current data and knowledge discovered are more in accuracy with the polytheistic Gods that give us a tale of an older universe.

Got it. Now since Monotheistic has been recorded to be 8500 years old, lets look at it this way. I am sure you have heard of Lucifer. The fallen one. Nephilim, the fallen ones. If we are going to play then it would not be absurd to think that Lucifer and all the other fallen ones would go forth to the other lands and pretend to be their gods, hence calling for human sacrifices. When it came to the ones whom God had chosen to follow him, for it was his divine right, he did not play. For those that worshiped the false gods, Lucifer and his angles, Gods did not hold back his divine judgment. For their ancestor, Cain, knew the truth and went his own way after killing his brother.

Let's look at the bible without biased love towards the God of it. Lucifer has not actually committed anything wrong. He never lied, he never killed, he never demanded worship, he never threatens. How can we equate him as a lying trickster if we can't even show one act of trickery committed by him?

What did he do to piss God off so much? He basically demanded equality and gave us knowledge that God wanted to deny us. We got punished for obtaining that knowledge and part of that punishment was sending us out of Eden, lest we eat from the tree of life as well becoming like God, equal to him. For all intents and purposes, it seems the God of the bible is the lying trickster and the description of Lucifer is more like one of the other God's trying to get us back on the right path by giving us the ability to see the trickery being place upon us.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by sirnex]

reply to post by sirnex


Lucifer didn't piss off The Infinite Creator (there is no fighting between some seperate almighty beings).

Yaweh, the earth word (earth logos, or sub creator), wanted to speed up the evoloutionary process of his fragments (us). Lucifer's job was to give us free will and in doing so must give the choice (thus the tree of knowledge). People who had no free will (knowing not from right and wrong only of one single process of thought were given the choice to eat to from this tree of knowledge, and they did. Yaweh was furious (not in a violent war tyrant way like humans describe everything) that his people would go against his benign dictatorship, because of this contract Lucifer was forced to stay on earth (incarnated into human beings) and run the show behind the scenes with negative influences. Without the existence of negative influences there is no way for an entity to understand the difference between positive and negative, therefor there is Lucifer is "evil" to show the difference between "good" and "evil".

In reallity there is no good or evil, no enemies or allies, there is only one.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Psychonaughty


That has to be the most hypocritical paragraph I have ever read in my life. You contradict your argument almost every other sentence. I'll give you a chance to clean up the immense holes in your theory before I point them out. I mean these suckers are *HUGE*, you can't possibly have missed them yourself!

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Psychonaughty

 

That has to be the most hypocritical paragraph I have ever read in my life. You contradict your argument almost every other sentence. I'll give you a chance to clean up the immense holes in your theory before I point them out. I mean these suckers are *HUGE*, you can't possibly have missed them yourself!

There really is no way to explain it in a narrow human perspective without being hypocritical.

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
There really is no way to explain it in a narrow human perspective without being hypocritical.

Then you invalidate the entire argument.

Originally posted by sirnex

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
There really is no way to explain it in a narrow human perspective without being hypocritical.

Then you invalidate the entire argument.

Than invalidated it is.

I'm simply trying to explain the core of truth that the bible has built itself upon about 'satan'/lucifer.

reply to post by Psychonaughty


By using contradictions? By what logic do you assume that explains anything at all? Are you devoid of common sense? I don't mean that to be an insult, but a serious inquiry to your state of mind in your usage of hypocrisy as a claimed valid attempt of explanation.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Psychonaughty

 

By using contradictions? By what logic do you assume that explains anything at all? Are you devoid of common sense? I don't mean that to be an insult, but a serious inquiry to your state of mind in your usage of hypocrisy as a claimed valid attempt of explanation.

Here in bland a bland simple statement:

Lucifer expresses the wrong so that we may know the right. Without there ever being wrong how would one know the right (thus free will of choice).

Funny at this moment I just had two missionaries stopping at my door spreading the word of "god" and when I told them I'm not interested they scowl at me as if I'm 'satan' himself.

[edit on 28-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Psychonaughty

Lucifer expresses the wrong so that we may know the right. Without there ever being wrong how would one know the right (thus free will of choice).

Yet, according to the bible, we were created with free will of choice, but in the act of exercising that free will of choice, we were punished. Without the knowledge of know right from wrong, we were to naive to know wrong was committed before it was committed. Why create Lucifer with the sole intent of causing us to transgress against God just so that God could punish to teach a lesson? I see no value in that lesson other than God created a being who's sole purpose was to cause us to receive punishment from God. How just is that? How just is it to place that blame on Lucifer when he was created for that purpose? God is a twisted maniac.

reply to post by sirnex


You keep thinking that 'God' is some seperate entity and that 'God' created Lucifer just for us.

We were not created with the intent of free will only did we get the choice to have free will and the choice was taken, in doing so Lucifer had to continue the contract of teaching us free will thus sent to earth from the 'heavens' (space).

Let us stray away from the bible and it's immense fabricated texts.

reply to post by Psychonaughty


Then we need to redefine the personages being used as analogies.

reply to post by sirnex


Religions are but a core of truth drowning in a sea of perversions with only the narrow perspective of man and it's viewpoints on the One Creator.

Just understand that everything is a single thought, there is no seperate revengeful entity that casts judgements on it's creations and in doing so throws the damned into a fiery pit of hell for eternity, it is that judgemental perspective that is used to control the masses for self-serving purposes of the elite.

reply to post by Psychonaughty


This still fails to make absolute sense to me.

reply to post by sirnex


What fails to make sense to you?

reply to post by Psychonaughty


There is evil and good and yet somehow it's all of the same on infinite cosmic consciousness, but somehow we as being part of that one thing should only give in to the good aspect of that one thing rather than embracing the totality of it all.

reply to post by sirnex


The evil is merely illusiveness of people being service to themselves, which in reallity is the One Infinite Creator. The other path is a service to other selves which in reallity is the One Infinite Creator. It is at this incarnation that you choose in between these two paths, the illusion being good and evil but really it is all for the One Infinite Creator (you).

Eventually the path of service to themselves understands that to become closer to them themselves they have to be closer to everything else because all is one.

My comment has often tended to be that the Creator is attempting to gain in knowledge and appreciation of Itself. The Creator wishes to know Itself. Thusly, it sends forth parts of Itself within illusion to see what will happen
and to learn from the colors created in the palette of emotions that you
have created through many experiences and incarnations. This palette
contains your beauty and is unique to you, so that you can teach the
Creator that which no one else in all of Creation is able to teach. For
you are the only one of you in all of the infinite universe. Thusly, it is
your gift to the Creator that comes from you, that is greatly desired.
You cannot please the Creator by being someone else but only by being
most truly and deeply yourself.

reply to post by Psychonaughty


Then all discussion of morality, evil and good is entirely moot. If we're all just different aspects of one creator trying to learn more about it's own existence, then we should allow this one creator the right to conduct it's learning experiences on it's own. Allow good and evil to play out it's course rather than attempting to lock up evil and throw it away. Who are we to judge the totality of an infinite creator trying to experience these two facets of itself?

Why strive to be only good, how does the one creator learn of evil if various aspects are trying to do away with it? Why punish evil if evil is nothing more than an equal part of the one creator? I see no point in being moral with this line of thought. Why should I be only good to others when evil is part of the one creators learning experience of itself?

reply to post by sirnex


There is an amazing amount of proof.

creation.com...

www.backyardprofessor.com...

www.rose-publishing.com...

www.freerepublic.com...

And plenty of more sites.