Tired of military bashing...

You know, the VAST MAJORITY of our military that is overseas is just there trying to do a job. Whether you like the reasons they are there or not, let's not bash the men and women who put their lives on the line every day. A FEW have done stupid things, but the majority (how many are over there? Over 100,000, correct?) have done nothing wrong and are just missing wives, kids and parents back home.

Nans, you make me sick, telling us our military is sick and twisted. Do you KNOW any of them personally, or are you just going to depend on reports of a few bad apples to generalize? THEY'RE PEOPLE, like you and me! They live, breathe, and some are dying each day.

Ah, what am I saying? You won't listen - you'll just go on about how America sucks, how Americans suck...
It's almost like you have penis envy.

The one thing I would like to know is how many military personnel actually believe in what they are doing. How many believe the rhetoric of Bush and his Administration (who, after all, are not the people dodging bullets in Iraq).

I was in Iraq when Bagdad fell. I thought it was BS before we left and I think it's BS now. I remember at Ft. Bragg, when we were gearing up to leave, what's the big rush? Why is that anyone who asks a question is called 'unpatriotic' or 'a traitor'? I was in the minority. Most of the kids wanted to go and 'kill an iraqi' because they beleived the party line. A couple of months later, those kids were singing a different tune, and realized how insanely stupid this escapade was, and how woefully unprepared and under equiped we were. Rumsfeld didn't have a plan after the war was over. If we waited to properly prepare, the public support may of faltered, it was already starting to erode. I got out in December, but I still talk to some friends who are still out there. Morale is pretty low all around.

Originally posted by Pisky
The one thing I would like to know is how many military personnel actually believe in what they are doing. How many believe the rhetoric of Bush and his Administration (who, after all, are not the people dodging bullets in Iraq).

Would you like to hear that from a military member? One who has "been there, done that"? One who just got back from in theatre?

I don't know a single military member, and I know many, who has said one thing about not believing in the reasons why we are there. Not one. Do we want to be there? Hell no! Who wants to be away from their family being shot at in a very dangerous part of the world! But we believe in what we are doing, because unlike the morons like Nans the Rag-head-Surrender-Monkey and those of her ilk, we know what's really going on over there. We know that the people are glad we are there, building schools and hospitals, getting the water flowing, giving them electricity, and allowing them freedoms many have never know before. All others see and pontificate on are the bad things, the crap that the press puts at the forefront because �bad news is good news� for them. Good news doesn�t sell. But believe me, the good outweighs the bad by thousands of times.

And we don't call what the President says rhetoric. We call it the truth, because that's what it is. We are glad to have him as our commander in chief. After 8 years of the draft dodger Clinton getting his d**k sucked in the oval office and beating down the military, we're glad to have someone in there who believes in us as we believe in him.

Obviously, you two have different opinions. Curme - where did you serve, and when? Is morale that low? I don't know - I have heard more of what Affirmative says...

Affirmative - I agree that the good outweighs the bad. Why haven't news correspondents done a special on the good things? I know the negative sells more, but I would think by now that SOMEONE out there would do a special on the other side - the positives.

Again - I'm not here to really take one side or the other about the reasons - I just want our men and women over there to be appreciated when they return. Most are not what we have seen and heard on TV.

I landed in Kuwait, no joke, April 1st. Went to Iraq about a week later. Went home, around November. I'm a communications guy and traveled all around Iraq, but spent most of my time in Balad. Morale was terrible, life there was miserable. It may be better now, since I was there in the beginning, they didn't have a lot of stuff set-up. When I left, people were getting showers and hot food. So living conditions may be better now, but morale is still terrible.

Originally posted by natas
Obviously, you two have different opinions. Curme - where did you serve, and when? Is morale that low? I don't know - I have heard more of what Affirmative says...

Affirmative - I agree that the good outweighs the bad. Why haven't news correspondents done a special on the good things? I know the negative sells more, but I would think by now that SOMEONE out there would do a special on the other side - the positives.

Again - I'm not here to really take one side or the other about the reasons - I just want our men and women over there to be appreciated when they return. Most are not what we have seen and heard on TV.

Since I am still on active duty, I will not disclose where I am, nor can I disclose where and when I was in theatre. As far as the differing opinions, the vast majority of those who join, whether active, guard or reserve, KNOW that they have the possibility of being called up. There is a small minority who only joined for education or a job, and have no desire to defend their country. But EVERYONE knows going in that it's a possibility. The ones who don't have what it takes are identified as soon as possible and booted to the curb. They are usually the ones who are bitter and bad mouth the military and our government. Take them with a grain of salt. Again, there are those who have a definite beef with the military. I was almost screwed early in my career by a real douchbag, but thanks to some great people and a 3 star that took the time to look at things, I was exonerated. Some, and it's very few, aren't so lucky. 99% of those who are booted deserve everything they get and more.

Again, the media is what it is. They are crass, obnoxious, pushy, and get in the way at every turn. I've hauled a bunch of them around, and they all suck. They only want to know the bad stuff, and they never print the good. Again, it doesn't sell. If somebody prints something bad, they only way to get the next scoop is to make it worse then the previous. Example, there is a fantastic story about one of our guys here who does more for the community in a week than most folk do all their lives. He's won three different awards in the last two years and is up for a national one, and not a single paper, radio or TV station has done a word on him. Why? He's military, and we are all bad now. That's what sells papers

I too hope our men and women over there are appreciated when they return. I just came back from my second tour and have had nothing but kind words and thank you's from people who see me in uniform, but this community supports us. And curme is wrong, the morale of our troops has gone way up since base camps have been built. The attacks on compounds and the current prison abuse scandal has had it's effect, and morale could surely be higher, but it is by no means poor. I'm sure it's better in some units than in others, but that depends on too many factors to go into here.

Too bad so many here are such morons about the situation.


[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

I just came back from my second tour and have had nothing but kind words and thank you's from people who see me in uniform, but this community supports us.

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand that part. Your second tour where? In what branch do you serve? I know you are on active duty and your whereabouts are very sensitive, but what is your job? Communications? Artillery? Fuel Handler? I'm getting ready to join the Air Force myself. I had 4 years as a sailor, 6 in the Army. I'm planning for retirement in the Air Force. Probably at least one more tour in Iraq, but I hear that the Air Force is a lot better to it's troops than anyone else!

Yeah, I'm tired of the military bashing everybody around the world. How many bases around the globe do we have? You say they've done nothing wrong. They invaded another country.
It was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people you say? Before 9/11 I'll bet you didn't give a rat's behind about the Iraqi people. It was to stop Saddams WMD you say? Well, I served too, and I know we have nukes at locations around the globe and Saddam would be dead in two seconds if he used WMD, and he knew it.
And, I have a first amendment right to bash the military.

BASH...BASH...BASH

Quote bt AR, "Again, the media is what it is. They are crass, obnoxious, pushy, and get in the way at every turn. I've hauled a bunch of them around, and they all suck. They only want to know the bad stuff, and they never print the good. Again, it doesn't sell. If somebody prints something bad, they only way to get the next scoop is to make it worse then the previous. Example, there is a fantastic story about one of our guys here who does more for the community in a week than most folk do all their lives. He's won three different awards in the last two years and is up for a national one, and not a single paper, radio or TV station has done a word on him. Why? He's military, and we are all bad now. That's what sells papers."

Sorry pal, but I have a finely tuned bull # detector, and it's going off right now. I don't think you are millitary at all. A little good press is needed, don't you think that the gov. would support that? Personally I think you are full of # .

Youve, been online since I've posted, this last 1/2 hour, Bueler, Bueler!

I'm sure he has nothing better to do than read your arguments, hun.

Is it at all possible to support the troops but not support their actions in Iraq? I have nothing against U.S. soldiers (who aren't breaking Geneva conventions) and wish they were back in the United States safe with their families, but I do not like their continued presence in Iraq. So I have found it difficult to say much regarding this.

This is similar to how I feel about the "stay the course" rhetoric I've been hearing. Do you leave armed forces in a country already "liberated" from their original oppressor, yet faced with aggressive civilian forces? Or do you get out and hope for the best? It seems to be the case that no matter what happens, there will be an aggressive civilian outcropping in Iraq vying for power. There are also a load of non aggressive civilians there as well. Its my belief that since the fighting won't stop on the civilian side, its best to avoid more casualities caused by coalition forces and leave the country to its own devices. The conspiracy theorist in me knows better than this and thinks that U.S. military presence has to remain indefinitely, to secure the economic structure of Iraq for U.S. purposes, but I hope coalition miiltary suppression of civilians in Iraq comes to an end. More than enough have died and been maimed over this tragedy on both sides.

Certainly being in Iraq has left the U.S. constituency stuck between a rock and a hard place, and I feel that U.S. soldiers do need support, but I have an incredibly hard time reconciliing this with how I feel about the invasion/occupation.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by heelstone]

Look at your avatar? you're a piece of poop.
Are you solid poop? Can I consider you sh#t for brains.
Can you poop your pants? How do you tell if your undies have a skid? Do you smell like sh#t too.

Why don't you try to post something intelligent about the topic? Oh, that's right - you're probably just some immature punk kid that tries to get a rise out of folks.

I'll be sure to ignore you in the future. Thanks for acting like a 12 year old.

Whether you like the reasons they are there or not, let's not bash the men and women who put their lives on the line every day. A FEW have done stupid things, but the majority (how many are over there? Over 100,000, correct?) have done nothing wrong and are just missing wives, kids and parents back home.

They arent forced to. It's America. If you want to go to war you go to war. If you dont you dont. It's their choice. Remeber that's why people are saying bad things about them. They choose to do this. They arent forced to. And that is one stupid choice.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by AD5673]

If you want to criticize the military it should be reserved for its generalship, not rank and file soldiers (except Abu Gharib perpetrators) My beefs are with the way the Iraqi army was dispositioned, they were released much to early in an effort to score political points. The failure to immediatly close the borders allowing infiltration of outside agitators and the flow of weapons to occur, guess if we cant do it with Mexico why should we be able do it there, same damn problem in Nam too. The failure to decisively and forcefully deal with the Falluja problem immediatly after the killing of the contractors.

I don't think Bush is an LBJ who has to control every mission from the Whitehouse, he is relying on his generals to make plans and give good advice - I think they have failed him and the American people by reactive planning in response to the political climate rather than pure military decision making.

AR and curme have two very different opinions as to the state of morale among our troops in Iraq. I'll bet that has a lot to do with their own personal views on the war. curme is negative, he probably hangs out with and keeps in touch with those soldiers that are down on the administration. AR probably hangs out with those who are more pragmatic and mission-minded.

The media definitely has a lot to do with what I feel the morale is over there. For instance, every soldier or group of soldiers interviewed on TV seem to say the same thing: we're here to do a job, morale is very good.

On the other hand, the media is far from even-handed in it's reporting of events. I remember last summer and fall, seeing one small victory after another of progress being made, schools and hospitals being rebuilt, water and electricity being turned on in another city block or small town. Then it stopped. Why? Well, because as somebody said, bad news sells. And it is also the case that many of these efforts have been hampered by the fools that are attacking their own country. It's hard to lay bricks for a new school when you're dodging RPG's. I have a question that I've asked several times: How does blowing up an oil pipeline, which carries the only source of wealth for your country, help your country?

I really don't feel anything emotion wise when I read of American casualties. My friend is a U.S. soldier and he says "these are soldiers, this is the job they signed up to do and some die" He got a bit upset when I talked about people moaning over casualties because he understands the job and the risks of the job.


If you can recall, the U.S. is the country which invaded Iraq.. not the other way around. The Iraqi military was defending there homeland from the U.S. imperialist policy.

But now, we have terror networks doing alot of the killing in Iraq so its much different now. Now we are back to the typical Islamic Jihad fight agaijn. The Iraqi army is not as threatening as these terror groups who wish to further demoralize the U.S. "war effort"

I don't bash the military, I just believe that if they are sent in to invade a foreign country they will have to accept the consequences.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by RedOctober90]

As for the media interviewing troops, I remember getting classes on how to talk to the media. Don't reveal military details (obviously) and don't say anything bad. Don't give an impression that your morale is low. The enemy can use for their own gain. I'm not saying that soldiers being interviewed are not telling the truth, they may really have high morale. I'm just saying media interviews may not be accurate because of how soldeirs are taught to deal with the media.