gods are an invention to just serve poor minded whom have been always kept down in a mood of fear by their manipulating religious abusers.
it's dumb to search for an ABSTRACT excuse to tell other people they
must do this and this else they would suffer terrible because they made their gods angry !

history proofs how silly religion acted in the time of inquisition,mayas,crusaders,egyptians...short said: the same mad mad world as today...
same idiots and slightly different weapons but just same results !

and a very surprising thing for all known religions there is NO single proof their gods ever have existed !

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
a very surprising thing for all known religions there is NO single proof their gods ever have existed !

True - though the same could be said for aliens. Faith, or logical deduction, if you prefer, doesn't necessarily require definitive proof.

Urgh. It feels funny defending religion. But The Truth, as the Vorlons say, points to itself.

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
gods are an invention to just serve poor minded whom have been always kept down in a mood of fear by their manipulating religious abusers.

Explain to me then where we came from? Where the universe came from? Why have people always believed in a supreme being? Who created this "gods are an invention to just..."? Surely if one person knows the truth then everyone would. Your statements just don't make any sense! You sound like someone with a lot of pent up anger inside.

the origine of life is chaos.
mutatis mutandis
processes that changes matter into other matter
no matter how micro or macro you go

You still haven't explained the origin of matter. Where did it come from?

neither did einstein,ms curry or oppenheimer !

I think I'll jump back in. Well nogods, it's here isn't it? I don't have the sources at hand, but more and more scientists have come to believe that God created the universe. You say the origin was chaos - where did the chaos come from? Can you explain the uncaused cause. I've been reading your posts and I know there's a language barrier. I'm simply now trying to determine whether you're just stuck with quoting a couplle of phrases or whether your pausing to consider other opinions. Your siganture woul suggest not.

RELIGION is a HUMANE invention.
not an universal one !

science and the natural laws involved could be maybe even a glimpse of the whole structure in the chaos of the galactic perpetum mobile

Who created/established the natural laws?

WHO ???

what is the source ?

same as in the question what was first "the egg or the chicken" !

but universaly speaking:that does'nt matter at all

OK, I think my earlier question's been resolved.

Originally posted by CommonSense
I don't have the sources at hand, but more and more scientists have come to believe that God created the universe.

Yes, I'll just bet those sources prove elusive...

CS, please explain why God is the answer to the "uncaused cause" (neat turn of phrase, btw, but ultimately misleading). What created God? What created the creator of God? How can God exist prior to the universe? *How* did God create matter?

These arguments are regressive. There is no mechanism by which God could have functioned, and it is therefore utterly and completely outwith the realm of science. As I said above, you either believe or not - if you do, then just accept that it doesn't have a scientific rationale and go on with your life! If you must, like me, have a scientific explanation - or at least a framework where an explanation might one day exist - then you must refute God absolutely.

Which leads us back to the topic: Aliens have all the martialed forces of science, logic and rationality in their favour. God is rendered impossible by those self-same intellectual strictures.

Originally posted by StrangeLands
Yes, I'll just bet those sources prove elusive...

CS, please explain why God is the answer to the "uncaused cause" (neat turn of phrase, btw, but ultimately misleading). What created God? What created the creator of God? How can God exist prior to the universe? *How* did God create matter?

These arguments are regressive. There is no mechanism by which God could have functioned, and it is therefore utterly and completely outwith the realm of science. As I said above, you either believe or not - if you do, then just accept that it doesn't have a scientific rationale and go on with your life! If you must, like me, have a scientific explanation - or at least a framework where an explanation might one day exist - then you must refute God absolutely.

Which leads us back to the topic: Aliens have all the martialed forces of science, logic and rationality in their favour. God is rendered impossible by those self-same intellectual strictures.

Wonderful post. Posts like this should be appreciated in this forum.

SL,
I can't take credit for the phrase, that came from St. Thomas Aquinas, one of the doctors of the Church. You're right, you either believe or you don't believe. The Church teaches that God always was and always will be. No begining - No end. Since matter cannot create matter, the creator of the universe must be beyond the realm of the universe as we know it. Beyong the scope of time and space. Contrary to your conclusion, when you seek the ultimate scientific answer to where we came from, the is only one logical answer. If you worship science as an idol, you will never see with the eyes of faith.

Originally posted by CommonSense
Contrary to your conclusion, when you seek the ultimate scientific answer to where we came from, the is only one logical answer.

I hate to argue over minor points when we're so close to a rapprochement, but God isn't - and can never be - a logical answer. Even if He exists, then He is still illogical. The ultimate scientific answer is that the universe came into being at the moment of the Big Bang for unknowable reasons. The two schools are, and will forever be, incompatible - the best we can do is a cease fire!

And thanks for your kind words, Preest. I try my best!

Preest, You may want to read the link I gave to SL. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

both cuz....theres loads of evedence that god exsists but theres loads of it for ailens too...humm....

Originally posted by CommonSense
Preest, You may want to read the link I gave to SL. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Read. Appreciated. Unfortunately, it cannot be any more than theory. There is NO PROOF that there is a Supreme Being...if there was that would negate the whole concept of faith, which is what religion is based on. Remove faith by proving God is real and you risk tampering with free will. I believe in the possibility of God though.

Mathematically, Other Intelligent Life would seem to be a fact but, once again...unproven.

Both are nothing more than theories. I accept the possibility of both but I'm grounded in enough common sense to admit that neither have been proven and until they are there's no definite answer. Both are easier to believe and neither are easier to believe.

You're right. The rest relies soley on faith. thanks for your thoughts.
CS