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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Hahahahah people are atheists because they're unhappy? I think I've heard it all, dont equate your life to mine, its nothing alike. I was actually un-happy and in a constant state of worry when I was christian, I dont believe anymore, and im a much happier person than I ever was when I believed.
That is also called dissonance in psychology (systematized common sense) exaggerating the benefits of one, and the shortcomings of the other, to justify the current. I have heard the same from many converts, whether it is another religion, the occult or indeed atheism.
Though don't get me wrong, it is not all atheists that are unhappy, just many I have encountered and studied. When someone demonstrates with passion against a belief, it is most likely, there is a personal issue behind it.
What is the purpose of the life of an atheist, he breathes, he eats, he sleeps, a nanosecond later, he's gone. It's as if he never existed. If knowing that makes you happy, then please define what happiness is to you. I am not slamming your beliefs, you are free to believe anything you want, I am just intrigued.
What makes us as humans beings are our beliefs and actions, every belief and action has a positive or negative effect on our consciousness. Are you expecting me to believe someone who believes they are machines, living in a captialist world torn apart by war, greed and hate, with no real purpose, is happy? What is being happy to you, watching football and drinking a beer?
[edit on 26-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]
Do you expect me to believe that all atheists think this way? Or even most of them? People are people, you seem to have some personal issues against atheism.
Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Again, Indigo Child, you're trying to tell the rest of the world what should make them happy and what shouldnt.
Atheism does not equal unhappiness, people are people, simply put. You cant just say people dont believe because they arent happy.
but you're telling us everyone who doesnt believe is irrational and unhappy. You can define happiness, but you cant tell us what makes people happy.
Originally posted by portfreezer
Has This Society Gone Crazy??????????????? First of all this country The United States was built on god!!!!!!!!!! If you don't belive in god ur not an american citizen!!! Ya I know how we have the right to speech and freedom of religion but those laws are total crap!!!! We have god on our money, god in our courts, YOU HAVE TO SWEAR ON THE BIBLE TO BECOME PRESIDENT!!!! There is also god in our pledge. I mean omfg if u don't think their is a god then you better sit back and look at the facts!!!! BECAUSE THEIR IS A GOD AND IF U DON'T BELIEVE IN HIM THEN HAVE FUN WHEN U DIE BECAUSE UR GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR ITERNITY!!!!!
(That is my opinion I am not trying to attack or piss off athiests but its true)
[edit on 22-10-2004 by portfreezer]
Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
And the fact that religions are man-made only furthers my point, they arent from God, theyre from men with imaginative minds.
Men with imaginative minds. Is that not the very thing that gave birth to the scientific method? If not, could you explain why? Could you explain why with testable evidence?
But that doesnt change the fact that what I believe relies on things that can be tested, and not faith.
Hardly. What testing do you speak of? Subjective interpretation? Or the objective, testable, scientific method and other such methodologies. If the later, then you have put faith in the accuracy of these methodologies. Surely you are not a master mathematician, physicist, biologist; a master of every objective body of knowledge that you could say with subjective certainty that they are all completely accurate. Therefore you have put your faith in their accuracy.
Well, I dont believe a God exists. I would change my view if I had reasonable evidence to believe so.
I don't believe in our static notion of time. Although I would change my view if I had reasonable evidence to believe so.
I feel one should not deny the exsistence of both the objective and the subjective. One should understand how they both ultimately create our idea of reality. I feel I have done this and I came to the conclusion there is a God.
If you believe God exists, then you should be able to prove a positive.Which obviously, cant be proved.
God is the creator; all that is. Therefore all that is objective is positive proof. This is of course my belief.
You say it's absurd to believe in God because it has no objective reality. But you could tell me about something that is objectively true like...
Light sticks containing 9,10-bis(phenylethynyl)anthracene dye provide a green glow. Bending the light stick cracks open a container of hydrogen peroxide that mixes with oxalic phthalate ester to form high-energy molecules that excite the dye molecules. The dye emits green light as it returns to the ground state.
...and I would tell you that's absurd, I don't believe that's why it happens. You might say: well the path is a difficult one, but if you study chemistry diligently at a university and get your degree, you will understand it subjectively to be objectively so. And I would say the same thing of God. Question is: Have you diligently studied God; have I diligently studied the absence of a God?
Another point which I think is being missed, is that I dont care if people believe in something which cant be proved
You say you don't care but then you give a condition...
as long as it doesnt tell other people what to believe with out any proof.
So are you really tolerant of peoples views on this?
Im mainly talking about fundamentalist religions like Christianity and Islam. They havent done humanity any good, obviously.
Heh. They have done good man. They have also done alot of bad.
BTW: I am pretty sure it goes like this:
Atheists say "there is no God".
Agnostics say "I would change my view if I had reasonable evidence to believe so".
Yet it still took a creator to make them, right. You are just adding more fuel to the creator beliefs. (Note for me it's not a belief, it's knowledge.
When you can find me a mechanical watch in the middle of the Sahara desert, that evolved by itself, then I'll believe you.
I sense a feeling of human centralism going on. What is the matter, cannot accept the existence of a greater power than us? Sensitive ego?
Exactly, you have free will to do anything you want, yet under the laws of karma. You choose what life you want, you choose your future lives, you choose your whole fate. If your choice is to suffer, then it's your choice. If you choose happiness, it's still your choice.
You said it yourself, what a terrible place the world would be if there was no religion. In a godless society, where man has elevated himself to god himself,
and sees him as nothing but a machine, that automatically assembled from some dust, and will malfunction, where there is no greater purpose to life, where pain is endless, that surely would be a terrible place.
Religion, thus provides that outlet for man, to attain a state of inner-happiness to have a feeling of purpose,
and have something to look forward to after death.
However, if the atheist was wrong, and lead a life of sin, thinking death is the end, but later finds himself robbed of paradise and thrust into hell, he has lost out terribly in the end. Whichever way you look at it; the believer wins.
So in a universe where everything is a belief anyway, there are no absolute truths, would it be logical to choose a belief system that makes you unhappy and dehumanizes you.
How the hell does this watch meteophore strengthen your argument? It's not an animal.. life of it's own design grows and evolves.
The whole point of religion is that humans be something 'special' to something all powerful.. and then to in turn.. submit to it; that that is the reason for the whole universe to exist is specifically for us so we should pay it homage [well to the people who a 'clo$er' to it anyway].. the universe.. is our home.. it eventually gave us life but I don't think it was a concious decision because it was lonely.. it just did.. and it is much appreciated.
And I can do all those things without benefit of a deity.
Who said athiests elevate themselves to 'god'? We DON'T BELIEVE in god.. if we refer to ourselves with 'we are god' it just means we take resposibilty of our own existance and don't attribute it to an exterior force.. it's not some ego trip.
Why? I'm an officially an athiest- but I am a very spiritual person.. being 'godless' doesn't take away any purpose from my life.. my spirituality just connects me to the world around me rather than wasting on something that is illogical. It just further highlights the wonders and mysteries here on this planet and in us.. the fact that they made themselves is more inspiring than the thought of any god.
Like holy wars? More people have died for god's sake than anything else.. history shows that the concept of god is bad for us as a species.. and it's still hindering our development.
I'm not scared of death.. I'd rather make the most out of life than live in humilty appeasing a hypathectical deity so I can pretend I'm going to go to 'heaven'.
I'm not going to believe in god just-in-case.. besides which I don't need anyone to point out what is and is not a sin.. I have my own natural, evolved conscience to guide me.. the believer however is quite capable of overruling his/her natural conscience in order to hurt others by using bible quotes [or koran etc] to justify it. "But the book says it's okay.."
Athiesm.. and then sometimes agnotisticism and buddhism [as in search of wisdom] suit me and aren't inhibiting.. things like the bible were what dehumanised. The most positive thing I ever did was to undo the religious conditioning.. but it is not to 'spite' god that I don't believe in it.. after I looked at religions objectively I just realised it's all manufactured. I don't use god as some sort of scapegoat either because of some complex.. [though I do still see it as being distructive to our world] I just believe in me, the world that I'm in and others who share it.. thats enough for me and this philosophy has in no way left me feeling unfullfilled.. on the contrary; it has been very enlightening.
Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Thats funny, you come across as a disgruntled ex-atheist.
I havnet embraced any other deity-religions, because they are all man-made concepts, and they all place limits and constructs on how a person should and shouldnt act/think.
It would seem irrational to chose something that makes you unhappy,but then again, I dont think its much of a choice.
I think its fine that you believe in God and that you're happy with your life and it works for you, but I cant understand how you're trying to tell everyone else what should work for them and what shouldnt. You act as if you know God exists, and that the only way to be positive and contribute to society is if you believe in some sort of God.
Like a microbe perhaps? You need to be a little clearer in what you mean.. would a single celled microbe have a conciousness? I doubt it.. it doesn't have a brain for thinking or self awareness it would evolve one as it evolves.
The theory of evolution states that matter somehow aggregates to form consciousness. Yet, if this was true, and consciousness is nothing more than blind chance, then lesser complex systems should have formed too.
A mechanical watch is complex, but less complex than a human being. Why are there are no evolved mechanical watches lying alone? This is where this theory falls face-flat.
To date, there is absolutely no scientific understanding of consciousness, no physical processes known to man, can account for it. Which means as of yet mind exists independent of matter.
Who said God is there to benefit you?
just lead your life in a positive manner, and you will still reach God.
Atheists, in their mighty ignorance,
deny god, to justify their actions in the world. If there is no god, then they can do anything they want, regardless of morals, ethics or being judged later.
It provides a false sense of security to them.
It is about feeling kinship with others, and belonging to your universe. You are "very spiritual" yet you deny this life force? Riight.
History has show the concept of science is bad for us as a species, and it's still hindering our cultural and spiritual development. In a scientific society we are taught that we are biological machines, where survival is of the fittest, we must all compete with one another, to climb the evolutionary or social hierarchy, and morals and ethics are just relative.
In some religions, we are taught the value of love, peace and cohesion, we are taught to assume responsibility for ourselves, and we are told of how we have a belonging to this universe. Do you want me to tell you which is positive?
Unfortunately, because mankind is so spiritually retarded, he needs it taught to him, what is "right" and "wrong" when in fact it is common sense. Right = Positive; Wrong = negative. Positive = Love, peace, compassion, happiness; Negative = Hate, Ignorance, Anger, Greed, Sadness.
Again, god is not the sole property of Christians. I have looked at enough religions, to extract the positive from them all, discard the rest, and then distill it and listen to my heart.
and you cannot deny that you don't have life. It came from somewhere,
Originally posted by CommonSense
EE, Thanks for the reply. If I could, I'd like to ask for clarification on a couple of points.
Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
The God/s that we know and have come to believe in were probably an alien species.
why do you believe this? Please help me out, it's a very serious question.
Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
Do I believe in a being that is more powerful than anything in the universe? Yes. Is his/her/it's name God? Who the hell knows? .....
Is your "almighty being" the creator of all things? Is he/she/it all powerful?
Originally posted by EmbryonicEssence
Does the "almighty being" influence us? I can't say for sure. It sure as hell doesn't seem like it.......
Are we looking for the "ab" to control us or to allow us to exist given the ability to reason that "ab" gave us?
BTW, I sure hope we're not God's reality show, I hate reality TV, at least of the Survivor genre!
[Edited on 5/15/2004 by CommonSense]