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Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?

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posted on Oct, 25 2004 @ 11:20 PM
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Sometimes religious can be a powerful psychological weapon. Any way I am a Christian and I believe in life on other planets I dont think the others planet are just for decoration




posted on Oct, 25 2004 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by Jakko
In my opinion humans will just have to get it into their little heads there WAS a creator that always was and always will be, that created everything.

WHY do I have to get it into my little head?! So you can feel more comfortable in your fantasy? Because the bible says so? The bible.. isn't even two thousand years old.. I don't marvel at it's age.. nor.. given how many people have been slughtered in it's name do I respect it. It's just a nasty little press kit to me. In contrast the [this] universe is upwards of 750 billion years old.. it's purpose DOESN'T have to be just so we can exist. People got pissed off to be told that the sun doesn't revolve around us.. yet.. in this day and age.. people STILL want humans ['god's children'] to be the only reason the universe came into creation.. some just want to be 'special' and be important- narcassism on a grand scale. "God did it" shouldn't always have to be put in place of "I don't know". 'He' isn't reason enough to promote ignorance.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Jakko
No Damned.
There is no difference between "what created a creator" and "what created first creation" and "what created the creator of the creator".

In my opinion humans will just have to get it into their little heads there WAS a creator that always was and always will be, that created everything.


Apparently, you believe there was a creator.
Why? Besides the bible(which was written by naive, primitive men), what inkling of proof do you have of this? Humans need to get it through their head that there never was a creator, IMO, and quit arguing about which f'ing creator is better than the others, and who's going where when they cease to live. It's utterly ridiculous.
Creationism is an oxymoron in itself. It can't be. If you can grasp the meaning of eternity, then why would eternity have to be created in the first place? If a god can be eternal, many things can. The anti-matter of the universe, for example, is most likely eternal. If you can't grasp the meaning of eternity, then sure, you may need to believe in a creator. I'm not going to claim to know, although the idea of a creator is absurd to me. As I've already said, it doesn't answer the question to my satisfaction. If something needs to be created, so does it's creator. You can't only apply creationism to only what you think it should apply to. Either it is, or it isn't. Maybe no one told you? The earth is not flat. It's not the center of the universe, and the sun and planets don't revolve around us. No huge invisible man in the sky created anything. He doesn't have any power over anything because he never existed. I've tested that theory every possible way I could. It still holds 100% true. God is for people who desperately need love and guidance, but can't get it from anyone except an imaginary fantasy figure.

Let me enlighten you on something: Time does not exist. It's not constant. It's a human perception. Read this...

news.scotsman.com...

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Damned]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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This is an awesome topic, I often wonder how people can have such strong beliefs in something like God and angels, etc...but then totally dismiss that there could be aliens out there.

Even though there is no scientific proof that aliens indeed exist, it's a lot easier for me to believe that they do.

But there is also that side of me that believes in God...whether or not it's my disillusional way of dealing with the concept of death...I don't know, but it's there.

When it comes down to it...I hope there's a God or afterlife more than anything else...and sometimes it just feels like there is something else out there. It's hard for me to put my faith in words on why I believe...intuition maybe? Or just blind faith...it switches back and forth. Hope that makes sense...



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 10:59 AM
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Hi,new guy here. I personaly do not believe in a god. If there is an after life i do not want to go to hell or heaven. I just want to sleep forever. As for alien life math says there is a very good chance of existance. But hey i failed math in shcool.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by one eyed tom
If there is an after life i do not want to go to hell or heaven. I just want to sleep forever.


Now that's what I'm talking about! I like sleeping. What would be so bad about that?
That would be heaven, IMO.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Damned
Apparently, you believe there was a creator.
Why? Besides the bible(which was written by naive, primitive men), what inkling of proof do you have of this?


The proof of a Creator is all around us. As an example: You can smash
a bunch of rocks together for billions of years and you're never going to
get a typewriter. But yet we have typewriters, the typewriters were
created by intelligent beings. The world surrounds us with many many
examples of creation. Is it so hard for you to extend this concept beyond
our world?



Humans need to get it through their head that there never was a creator,


You are always asking for proof, what proof do you have to support this
statement?



IMO, and quit arguing about which f'ing creator is better than the others, and who's going where when they cease to live. It's utterly ridiculous.



Yes, there are lots of idiots and religious fanatics out there in the world
which have the wrong ideas. This does not prove the absence of a
creator, however.



He doesn't have any power over anything because he never existed. I've tested that theory every possible way I could. It still holds 100% true.


Care to share with us how you've tested your theory?



God is for people who desperately need love and guidance, but can't get it from anyone except an imaginary fantasy figure.


I've noticed that a lot of people that do not believe in God do so because
He does not fit their expectation of what they expect. Their logic usually
goes something like: [How can there be a god if ...] [If there is a god then
how could he let ... happen]

As if God is supposed to insure that our life experience does not include
anything that we do not like.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
The proof of a Creator is all around us. As an example: You can smash a bunch of rocks together for billions of years and you're never going to get a typewriter. But yet we have typewriters, the typewriters were created by intelligent beings.

Thats called EVOLUTION. We used to bang rocks together to make fire. Then we discovered we could cook with it.. then we discovered we could make the wheel etc. etc.

Is it so hard for you to extend this concept beyond
our world?
Yes. The traditional myth of a 'god' is a god made in our image. We've been here but minute on earth.. and a millinsecond in this universe.. a god with a human interlect came much AFTER we ever came into existance.. and we were monkeys beforehand.. before that single celled muicrobes.. if we were suppose to be made in his image.. was he a single celled microbe at the time?

I've noticed that a lot of people that do not believe in God do so because He does not fit their expectation of what they expect. Their logic usually goes something like: [How can there be a god if ...] [If there is a god then how could he let ... happen]

Our logic is simply that we actually USE it. I've noticed pro god people using the capital He.. is it logical to assume that someone omnipitant has a penis? [well he did give mary the once over i guess..]

As if God is supposed to insure that our life experience does not include anything that we do not like.

Wow thats patronising. We take the responsibility ourselves to insure our life experiences don't include things we don't like. We are not rebellious little children giving daddy the silent treatment.. we simply realise he's not there.. bloody hell.. what a terrible place the world would be if there was no religion!!


[edit on 26-10-2004 by riley]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by wrath_of_god
Sometimes religious can be a powerful psychological weapon. Any way I am a Christian and I believe in life on other planets I dont think the others planet are just for decoration

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi to all , you are right: GOD is... / aliens is...

Hard to response....easy question but ...after


chapo



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
The proof of a Creator is all around us. As an example: You can smash
a bunch of rocks together for billions of years and you're never going to
get a typewriter. But yet we have typewriters, the typewriters were
created by intelligent beings. The world surrounds us with many many
examples of creation. Is it so hard for you to extend this concept beyond
our world?


A star can go supernova and create an entirely new solar system. New viruses are created, among many other recent creations. Funny, I didn't see god anywhere. Strange cosmic things like this happen all over the universe, all by themselves.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Your mistake is assuming that things can't create themselves, or that it's actually a rare occurance.



You are always asking for proof, what proof do you have to support this
statement?

Nice job of cutting off the "IMO" right after the comma.
You broke that sentence in two, just so you could do that? My proof that there is no god, is that there has never been proof that there is. You don't need proof to prove that something doesn't exist. You need proof to prove that it does.


Yes, there are lots of idiots and religious fanatics out there in the world which have the wrong ideas. This does not prove the absence of a
creator, however.

It sure as hell doesn't prove there is one, either. It does, however, prove the weak, fanatic, and desperate mentality of a believer.


Care to share with us how you've tested your theory?

Sure. I've stood in lighting storms with a metal pole, challenging god to strike me down. There are many other examples in which I've challenged the "great almighty" with no consequences. I've cussed that bastard like a dog and literally denounced him and his supposed son. Guess what....nothing happened! You have any better ideas how I can provoke god? Shoot! I've probably tried them all.


I've noticed that a lot of people that do not believe in God do so because He does not fit their expectation of what they expect. Their logic usually goes something like: [How can there be a god if ...] [If there is a god then how could he let ... happen]

As if God is supposed to insure that our life experience does not include
anything that we do not like.

Yep. God is an evil, sadistic, insecure bastard, who will cast you into hell if you don't fall to your knees and worship him, yet he loves you?


If god isn't responsible for bad things, then it goes without saying that he's also not responsible for good things. If something good happens to me, I prefer to take credit for it myself, thank you.

When you get to "heaven", how will you know the difference between good and evil, if evil doesn't exist? I guess everything will just be mediocre, eh?

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Damned]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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Truth is there is no evidence to proove that god is real, is there???



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by SmokeyTheBear
Truth is there is no evidence to proove that god is real, is there???


And no one has ever returned from the dead to tell us what happened. More than likely, if there's any truth to the story at all, Jesus didn't die on the cross. They only thought he was dead. It was quite common in that day and age, actually. People were actually buried alive from time to time. Their EKG's were rather inaccurate, back then.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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Damned, still at it eh? It really seems to be that your strong anti-god feelings have something to do with how life treats you. You have some issues needing resolving my friend. You are not alone, that is often why people entertain beliefs of atheism.


Thats called EVOLUTION. We used to bang rocks together to make fire. Then we discovered we could cook with it.. then we discovered we could make the wheel etc. etc.


Yet it still took a creator to make them, right. You are just adding more fuel to the creator beliefs. (Note for me it's not a belief, it's knowledge.
When you can find me a mechanical watch in the middle of the Sahara desert, that evolved by itself, then I'll believe you.


Yes. The traditional myth of a 'god' is a god made in our image. We've been here but minute on earth.. and a millinsecond in this universe.. a god with a human interlect came much AFTER we ever came into existance.. and we were monkeys beforehand.. before that single celled muicrobes.. if we were suppose to be made in his image.. was he a single celled microbe at the time?


The traditional belief(it's not myth) and of at least christian lore, is god man US in his image. In eartern metaphysics there is a similar belief, except here "image" means we are made of the same substance that comprises him. Which is true, if god is the universe, and in everything, then we are made of the same substance that comprises him. We are made in his image .

I sense a feeling of human centralism going on. What is the matter, cannot accept the existence of a greater power than us? Sensitive ego?


Our logic is simply that we actually USE it. I've noticed pro god people using the capital He.. is it logical to assume that someone omnipitant has a penis? [well he did give mary the once over i guess..]


"He" is only to give him respect. As many consider him our father. If they said "IT" it would not be respectful, and "She" would be mother. "Penis" is only a human biological concept, god is beyond the physical, by the very nature of what he is. In absolute reality, god, like our own souls, is an infinitestimal point of light, with no name, shape, form or gender. The only difference he is a supreme soul, and we are just souls trying to attain him. This is not some heavenly hierarchy, the concepts of power and status does not exist in gods world, all it means he is the epitome of divinity and love, and it is qualities we strive to attain in our many incarnations.

I have many personalities, and some of them are more sophisticated than others, that does not mean I am a greater or lesser person with each personality, they all belong to me anyway. In the same way, god is a personality that all belongs to us. I recall a very sweet lady in meditation class. She told us all something that really touched us. She would say god is her father, her mother, her friend, her brother, her child, she is truly married to him in everyway. She did not always feel that way always. Someone once said to her, "god is my child" and she thought what complete nonsense, how can god be their god. Later on, she told me of a great experience in meditation, she felt like she was carrying a child in her lap, and it was playing with her. She told me, the feeling she got, was that beautiful feeling all women get when they give birth. She then understood the signifiance of what that person meant.

I feel the same too. God is not seperate from me; he belongs to me.


Wow thats patronising. We take the responsibility ourselves to insure our life experiences don't include things we don't like. We are not rebellious little children giving daddy the silent treatment.. we simply realise he's not there.. bloody hell.. what a terrible place the world would be if there was no religion!!


Exactly, you have free wiil to do anything you want, yet under the laws of karma. You choose what life you want, you choose your future lives, you choose your whole fate. If your choice is to suffer, then it's your choice. If you choose happiness, it's still your choice. There is no seperate God, god is within you, it is a personality that is a part of you, and it is your choice if you want to be that personality.

You said it yourself, what a terrible place the world would be if there was no religion. In a godless society, where man has elevated himself to god himself, and sees him as nothing but a machine, that automatically assembled from some dust, and will malfunction, where there is no greater purpose to life, where pain is endless, that surely would be a terrible place. Religion, thus provides that outlet for man, to attain a state of inner-happiness to have a feeling of purpose, and have something to look forward to after death.

Is it all false security? Does it really matter? If it's giving you happiness, and making the world a better place, then what's wrong with it. If the person dies, and there is nothing, it would not matter anyway, he's dead, and the atheists were right all along, but he does not know that does he. On the other hand, what if the atheist is right, still the same, he does not know he was right.

However, if the atheist was wrong, and lead a life of sin, thinking death is the end, but later finds himself robbed of paradise and thrust into hell, he has lost out terribly in the end. Whichever way you look at it; the believer wins.

If he's wrong, he lead a life of happiness, and does not know he was wrong. If he's right, he leads more lives of happiness. If the atheist is wrong, he lead a life of sin, sorrow, and not believing in himself, and live more worse lives afterwards. If he's right, he lead a life of sorrow and not believing himself, and now he does not have pleasure of knowing he was right.

So in a universe where everything is a belief anyway, there are no absolute truths, would it be logical to choose a belief system that makes you unhappy and dehumanizes you. I wise man would choose to peaceful and happy. A stupid man would choose to be unhappy.

At the end of the day, not believing in our creator, or our universe, is like not believing in yourself. That is not about logic, that is about issues you need resolved in life. It's often the case, unhappy people become atheists. I know, because I was one, and then I saw the light. The single realization that there are no absolute truths, helped me choose a more positive belief system, and from there followed truths and other realizations by themselves. If you make the first step towards the light, the light will come 10 steps closer to you.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Damned, still at it eh? It really seems to be that your strong anti-god feelings have something to do with how life treats you. You have some issues needing resolving my friend. You are not alone, that is often why people entertain beliefs of atheism.


No, my belief, that there is no god, stems from the fact that I've yet to see anything that could be considered divine intervention, bad or good. However, I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic. Sure, this is an awesome universe, in all it's complexity. As awesome and self proficient as it is, I don't see why it would need a creator. You assume that this is so very complex that it must have been created. I assume that what we see is nothing, compared to the complexity we don't see. I also assume life is not rare. We're just too tiny to see beyond our own little circle. None of this prompts me to believe in a bizarre fantasy that only adds more complexity, especially when there's absolutely no reason to believe in miracles and magic. Even a god would need an environment to exist in, following your line of thinking.


At the end of the day, not believing in our creator, or our universe, is like not believing in yourself. That is not about logic, that is about issues you need resolved in life. It's often the case, unhappy people become atheists. I know, because I was one, and then I saw the light.


At the end of the day, you need a crutch, while I walk strong and independent, believing in myself. I have more faith in myself than you have in your imaginary god or yourself. I am my own god. I control my life and every aspect of it, without panic or desperation. While I'm thinking about how to handle the next random event, you're on your knees, hoping your god will help you. When I came to the realization that there is no god, I gained a lot of faith in myself. I became stronger. You, on the other hand, prefer to beg for help and forgiveness.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Damned]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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I really want to know if anyone has real evidence god exists, ther than "i have faith" or "yopu gotta believe" or something about a watch in the desert.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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You assume that this is so very complex that it must have been created.


I do not believe there was a creation. Creation is just a concept humans use to describe creation. There is no beginning, there is no middle and no end. There is nothing, and in nothing, there is everything.



At the end of the day, you need a crutch, while I walk strong and independent, believing in myself.


You believe you are a machine that self-assembed from dust; I know I am a soul beyond time.

You believe you are limited by your body, your brain and your social class; I know I am limitless and all encompassing.

You believe you will cease to exist; I know I am eternal.

You believe you inhabit the universe, which is in itself, lifeless; I know I am a part of the universe, and it's life is a part of me.

You believe what you reside in is reality; I know it's all an illusion of consciousness

You believe there is no greater purpose to life; I know I am here to attain happiness, become a centre of positivity, and to emanate positivity to others.

You believe you know; I know that I know nothing, so I keep searching.

Who believes in himself? Certainly not you, you are a self-assembled machine, that resides in a lifeless universe, with no sense of purpose or meaning, no thrist for knowledge, leading a monotonous life of a few nanoseconds in the universe, and a prinsoner of brain, society and circumstances, and will malfunction and cease to exist forever. There is little difference between you and a vaccum cleaner. That is how much you believe in yourself. That is how much you value yourself.



I am my own god.


That is the first sensible thing I have seen you say.


I control my life and every aspect of it, without panic or desperation.


No you don't, machines don't control their lives, they function on parameters defined by their programmers. As you don't believe you have a mind, there is not much individuality, and there is no control over your own thoughts, which have been locked into rigid thought patterns that has shut down other parts of your brain, like your imagination, and your ability to dream. You're talking like a mindless automonton. Have fun in the Borg.


While I'm thinking about how to handle the next random event, you're on your knees, hoping your god will help you. When I came to the realization that there is no god, I gained a lot of faith in myself. I became stronger. You, on the other hand, prefer to beg for help and forgiveness.


I do exactly the same, I deal with the "next random event" with the coolness of my mind, except because I believe in myself, and because I have the ability to imagine and dream, I am able to see much further than a single "event" In fact I am able to see the event before it happens.

Oh, and not all believers in god, are christian. See, you were not very much in control of yourself then, you automatically made the assumption, because some Christians pray and ask for forgiveness, then all we believers must all do(close minded thinking, proof for yourself, that will invariabley will not be proof, because a sausage machine, can only do one thing - churn out sausages. Well, sorry to break it to you, but I do not ask for forgiveness; I forgive. I do not pray to God to solve my problems; I help myself. In doing so, it is God who is helping me and it is God who is forgiving.

Prayers and positive affirmations are only for the peace of your mind, because if your mind is at peace, then you are more likely to devise solutions to your problems. It is all for the mind, everything is for the mind, even the belief in God. It is your mind that creates your reality.

I am happy, peaceful, forgiving, loving, creative, imaginative, wise, and I know about God. You are cynical, pessimestic, critical, sad, lonely, cold, judgemental, angry, unimaginative and ignorant, and you do not believe in God. One of those is positive. Do you want me to tell you which one?

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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indigo child you're acting dumb because damned doesn't believe in god. It seems like you think everyone who doesn't believe god is ignorant, dumb, useless, and they are that way because they are afraid or something. I dont believe in god but im no less than i just dont choose to believe in something that has no proof behind it except for a book written at a time when the knowledge of the avergage person less than great.

[edit on 26-10-2004 by SmokeyTheBear]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Hahahahah people are atheists because they're unhappy? I think I've heard it all, dont equate your life to mine, its nothing alike. I was actually un-happy and in a constant state of worry when I was christian, I dont believe anymore, and im a much happier person than I ever was when I believed. I look at the universe, and I see no need for a creator. The universe seems perfectly capable of creating new things by itself. You can believe whatever makes you happy, just as I can, but it doesnt mean either one of us knows the objective truth, or if objective truth exists.



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:30 PM
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Hahahahah people are atheists because they're unhappy? I think I've heard it all, dont equate your life to mine, its nothing alike. I was actually un-happy and in a constant state of worry when I was christian, I dont believe anymore, and im a much happier person than I ever was when I believed.


That is also called dissonance in psychology (systematized common sense) exaggerating the benefits of one, and the shortcomings of the other, to justify the current. I have heard the same from many converts, whether it is another religion, the occult or indeed atheism.

Though don't get me wrong, it is not all atheists that are unhappy, just many I have encountered and studied. When someone demonstrates with passion against a belief, it is most likely, there is a personal issue behind it.

What is the purpose of the life of an atheist, he breathes, he eats, he sleeps, a nanosecond later, he's gone. It's as if he never existed. If knowing that makes you happy, then please define what happiness is to you. I am not slamming your beliefs, you are free to believe anything you want, I am just intrigued.

What makes us as humans beings are our beliefs and actions, every belief and action has a positive or negative effect on our consciousness. Are you expecting me to believe someone who believes they are machines, living in a captialist world torn apart by war, greed and hate, with no real purpose, is happy? What is being happy to you, watching football and drinking a beer?

[edit on 26-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 05:34 PM
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WOW!
Great commentaries and opinions.

How great would it be if there was a "God"! I mean, the whole concept of identifying sin, atonement, forgiveness, the alpha and omega...phew!

I want to believe as much as anyone. The Middle East is still uncovering the truths mentioned in the Bible. The Vatacan is keeper of all religious secrets.

There is so much correlation between all the world's religions that to not grasp the possibility that God and Alien could be one in the same would seem rather myopic (sp?).

To understand fully the purpose of life and its origins isn't the point. To dismiss Darwin's theory of Evolution would be just as inane.

Take into account the Big Bang theory and the event as a spec of time in the life of the Universe and my head starts to pang.

I wish that knowing the truth would make this world a better place, but I fear the opposite would be true. The ability to state a hard line in defense of Creationism and God would be just as hard to support as Alien infusion.

Great thread.

....I've got to change my mood to Comfortably Numb...



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