Harder To Believe In - God or Aliens?, page 2


Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times


reply posted on 15-5-2004 @ 07:39 PM by Smudge
Originally posted by CommonSense
After having read many posts on religious conspiracies and aliens, I've noticed a number of things. First of all, we seem to have a large nummber of atheists on ATS. Second, there's a lot of speculation that God is really an alien. Third, many people, atheists included, find it easier to believe all sorts of bizarre stories about aliens yet can't seem to simply believe in God without putting some twist on it.

And that is my question. Why? If God is an alien, then who created him? If there is no God, why do some choose to beleive that the human race was placed on earth by a bunch of reptiles from another galaxy? Who created the reptiles and their galaxy? there is certainly less "evidence" to support that notion than simply believing in God. At least there's the Bible to support that traditional belief.

In any event, I'm looking forward to reading well thought out accounts of the reasons behind many of the beliefs that I question.

Thanks!

I think that there are two basic trains of thought here, firstly if you believe in God then theres no problem with also believing in aliens as the almighty creator may well have created other worlds.

Secondly if you dont belive in God then your creation theory probably revolves around some kind of big bang science. This then follows you believe in the laws of physics, which show that the universe is expanding at the speed of light. Ergo the universe is infinite in size, thats big, if this is the case then there are an infinite number of possible variations on life. So aliens would be possible within this theory also. Infact if the options are infinite then somewhere there is another me who is much richer and has a bigger yahoo. Lucky twat

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Smudge]


reply posted on 15-5-2004 @ 10:38 PM by EmbryonicEssence
CommonSense,
I believe that the God/s we have come to know are alien species because, an almighty being, such as "God" (whom most people believe in), has never shown his ass to anyone. There is no evidence, no tangible proof that he has, or will ever, interact with us. Everything written in the bible, torah, etc... Its all hearsay. Anyone who claims to have spoken with "God," BS. Why? What makes them so special that "God" would give them the time of day (why would "God" give someone like Bush the time of day - oh wait, religious people eat that stuff up, its good for getting elected, and being re-elected)? Think about it.

Now, in the ancient texts, why would "God" never show his true form? Why was his identity always hidden? What does "God" have to hide. An alien species on the other hand, claiming to be "God/s" would have much to hide, especially if they have ulterior motives.

If I were to go to another planet, which has primitive lifeforms, and I'm a greedy sob (who has needs), I'm definately going to say I'm "almighty," I am a God! Hell, we've seen this type of stuff perpetrated by our fellow humans against other humans. Take Francisco Pizarro and the Incans as an example.

With only 183 men, they would conquer a sophisticated empire of several million people, a feat that has never been equaled - and it probably never will be. He was taken to be a returning God by the natives, when he and a few others landed near Panama in 1527 because there was rumors of gold. To keep the story short, he saw gold, and he wanted it. So, he went back to Spain, got 183 men, and went back. He landed in Ecuador in 1531 and started to march inland. He and his men killed people here and there and then were finally introduced to Incan royalty.

Atahualpa, the Incan ruler, told his people not to harm them, because he was impressed by their beards and white skin. He believed that they were fulfilling a prophecy about the return of Viracocha, a legendary bearded prophet from a far away land who had visited the South American peoples many hundreds of years before.

Native Americans (most) have no facial hair. The first Incas are said to have had reddish-brown hair and beards, like Viracocha. Because of this, Atahualpa believed that the Spanish were Incas themselves - Sons of the Sun - gods in their own right, just as he, Atahualpa, was a god.

So, the Incans showered the Spaniards with gifts. The gifts weren't enough. Pizarro wanted it all. With that, they looked for a chance to take over everything. They got an audience with Atahualpa. They told him about the "one true faith" and talked about the Pope and King Charles of Spain. Atahualpa asked for the source (they were using a translator), they gave him a bible. He put it up to his ear, heard nothing, then threw the book to the ground.

This is just the gesture they had been waiting for, and with that, the spaniards attacked in full force. And because the Incans had been told to not do anything, no matter what (most were killed while trying to escape), almost 30,000 of them were taken out in no time at all. 160 of the 183 men were left standing. And with that, they took Atahualpa captive and started their conquest of riches and gold. All that death just for greed and self-interest and to feed the Church's and King's large piggy banks - oh, and for "God" (what does God need money for?). Anyways, that was a very abbreviated version of the events that occurred.

Now, whats interesting is that the Incans have no records of having built most of "their" amazing structures - and most of them do not figure in any of their legends. The Incans had said that they were there when they got there. And yet, most people are brought up to believe that they built them. The same can be said for most other ancient peoples - the buildings that we are told they built, were actually there when those people arrived, they just claimed ownership since the original builders weren't there anymore.

And ancient people are known for drawing what they see. So, why is it most of what they draw always seems to have "alien" creatures mixed in with the humans and animals of this planet?

Anyways, that probably won't answer your question, lol. But, its sort of what I believe in.

"My" "almighty being" might or might not be the "creator" of all things. Man created "God." Simply put, if we hadn't of thought him up, or should I say, were "introduced" to he/she/it, would we have even considered there being a "creator" of all things?

Maybe this "almighty being" that I speak of has always existed (somehow) and somehow he/she/it managed to create this massive universe for one reason or another (or maybe he/she/it didn't, and is really just a "moderator"). Doe the ability to create a universe make something all powerful? Sure.

Where does such power come from though? How can something just be? How can there be something without nothing? How can something exist without a cause and effect?

I guess its best not to constantly think of those questions because it can make one go mad. "God" is more of a comfort thing than anything else - as well as a control mechanism for the mostly naive populace.

Maybe all the "almighty being" is is just a collective consciousness of all the living creatures in the universe. Maybe that is all that "God" really is. Ever heard of the saying, "If you wish hard enough, it might just come true?" Multiply that by billions of the same wishes.

I am not looking for the "almighty being" to control us. When I said influence, I meant that he/she/it should at least make their presence known to us every once in a while, in some shape or form. Maybe just to remind us that we aren't the only things here.

I still think if we were created by one being, it was for he/she/it's amusement.



[Edited on 5-15-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]


reply posted on 16-5-2004 @ 03:32 PM by StrangeLands
Originally posted by CommonSense
A couple of followup questions for you. Where did we come from? What's the basis for saying aliens become increasingly likely as we explore our surroundings?


I'll tackle those in reverse order, if you'll indulge me, but I'd first like to apologise for any needlessly antagonistic phrasing in my previous post. I *must* stop writing under the influence of caffiene...

As we learn more and more about the universe, alien life looks less like a possibility and more like a cast-iron certainty. We have discovered in our surveys of this planet that life exists in almost unimaginable conditions - from volcanic vents on the ocean floor, to the summits of the highest mountains, to the hellish infernos of the deepest deserts. Life will always - *always* - find an exploitable niche. Combine this with our discoveries that other stars in our galaxy have families of planets, some of which may well be Earthlike, and we see that for life to be unique to this world would be... well, it would be unimaginable.

And wherever life exists, sentience will inevitably arise. It's possible, though unlikely, that we are the only sentient species in our galaxy at the present time, but others will follow after (or have gone before!).

Indirectly, this also answers your first question. Despite CyberRav's somewhat metaphysical invocation of an Infinite Field of Energy, the spontaneous development of life is described by highly plausible theories. Life is chemical in nature, not spiritual or miraculous. Sentience and consciousness, I agree, seem to defy a starkly scientific rationale according to our *current* knowledge base, but I have no doubt that we will unfold these mysteries in the years to come.

There is nothing - *nothing* - found in the universe which requires the intervention of a creator. I'm the first to admit that our understanding is imperfect, or at least incomplete, but that doesn't mean that we, in our arrogance, our vanity and our sickening ignorance, must turn to a mysterious and omnipotent being. There isn't a single particle of evidence of God's existence which withstands even cursory scrutiny.

Given these facts, these fundamental truths, God becomes not only less likely, but irrelevant. At the same time, alien life becomes not only more likely, but inevitable. I do not deny spirituality, I do not deny a moral and philosophical need in every human being - but I deny a farcical definiton of a living God who called the universe into being in an arbitrary and random way, but saw fit to underpin it all with scientific laws and principles which function elegantly, perfectly, and *without His interference*. What, I ask you, is more likely - that He created a universe which didn't need Him, or that He doesn't exist at all?

I look at the universe, and I see beauty. I see wonderous infinity. I see awesome power and unimaginable splendour. But I do not see, anywhere, the face of God.
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4    5  >>    ^^TOP^^



UFO Filmed From Avebury Crop Circle, UK With Multiple Witnesses
  Posted 19 days ago with 89 member flags
The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs
  Posted 12 days ago with 83 member flags
Did a RAF Tornado crash during a UFO intercept mission in 1997?
  Posted 14 days ago with 39 member flags
What is this comming out of our star?
  Posted 9 days ago with 33 member flags
Huge Unknown Objects orbiting the Sun for months...?
  Posted 8 days ago with 29 member flags
The CIA and the UFO Mythos
  Posted 16 days ago with 26 member flags
UFO Reporting for the 21st Century!
  Posted 12 days ago with 26 member flags