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The Freedom To Not Be Offended

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posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


We need one of these to help categorize everything:




posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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It doesn't even have to be foul language to get the censors here to start eliminating "unpopular" thought.

But, it is their site so.... Just ironic that this type of board would stiffle speech/thought.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 





I can say with absolute certainty there is more than a fair share of those who conceal their bigotry with this issue. Their opinions really aren't about immigration, they're about having a white nation. It isn't rare at all.


Actually there is a very legitimate complaint. Americans are replaced at work by lower paid immigrants. Many companies make the person who is "fired " train their non-American replacement or lose their severance pay. THAT ticks off a lot of people. I walked rather than do the training.

On top of that WTO and NAFTA caused 75% of the Mexican farmers to lose their farms which were then bought up by the international AG Cartel. There is not enough work in the Mexican cities so the farmers have no choice but to come to the USA.

Do not get angry at the Americans upset when they see their friends getting the bums rush and the work place filling up with non-americans. Instead get angry at the Bank/Corporate Cartels that have changed the laws throughout the world and stolen the livelihoods of millions of people.

So far in the USA we have been lucky to get off with loss of jobs, an increase in food born illness and a few deaths. In other parts of the world the transnational Agri-corporations aggressive monopolization of the food supply has caused a child to starve to death every 30 seconds, 150,000 farm suicides in India, many by drinking Monsanto pesticides. And in Mexico, the number of farmers to drop an astounding 75% from 2.3 million in 1992 to 575,000 in 2002. In Mexico Monsanto, Cargill and ADM sign agreements to establish regional seed banks so they can patent mexican seed and the EU passed laws making the sale of un-patented seed impossible. The Joint Communication from the African Group said the WTO patent agreements (TRIPS) “ could damage the livelihoods of 1.4 billion farmers worldwide and undermine food sovereignty and food security ”
History, HACCP and the Food Safety Con Job documents the coldblooded manipulation by the "financial and industrial executives who wanted to drastically change agricultural practices in the US to better serve their collective corporate financial agenda. This group, called the Committee for Economic Development, was officially established in 1942 as a sister organization to the Council on Foreign Relations."



Over the next five years, the political and economic establishment ensured the reduction of “excess human resources engaged in agriculture” by two million, or by 1/3 of their previous number.

In a number of reports written over a few decades, CED recommended that farming “resources” – that is, farmers – be reduced.

Their plan was so effective and so faithfully executed by its operatives in the US government that by 1974 the CED couldn't help but congratulate itself in another agricultural report called “A New US Farm Policy for Changing World Food Needs” for the efficiency of the tactics they employed to drive farmers from their land.

The human cost of CED's plans were exacting and enormous.

CED's plans resulted in widespread social upheaval throughout rural America, ripping apart the fabric of its society destroying its local economies. They also resulted in a massive migration to larger cities. The loss of a farm also means the loss of identity, and many farmers' lives ended in suicide, not unlike farmers in India today who have been tricked into debt and desperation and can see no other way out.



You and the rest who blindly support the current government because they label themselves "Democrats" are deaf, dumb and blind to the final act of the plan for a world wide food monopoly. Soon the USA will join the rest of the third world countries watching their children starve while the transnational Agri-corporations grow food to be shipped to China, the newest country targeted for rape by the central bankers and corporate cartels.

The purposed food safety laws will regulate your backyard garden and Mike Taylor, Monsanto's lawyer, will decide if you must pay a million/day fine because you screwed up the paperwork. There is no recourse to the courts because the is no judicial review. Still think Obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread ???






posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Cythraul
 


The thing is all of those things are a two edged sword. Both sides of each of those debates call each other names.


Exactly.

speak out for separation of church & state = sinner, blasphemer, cretin, socialist, communist, terrorist, muslim

speak out for health care for all children= sinner, blasphemer, cretin, socialist, communist, terrorist, muslim

speak out for advancing science, technology, and energy= sinner, blasphemer, cretin, socialist, communist, terrorist, muslim

etc etc. America is in a perpetual bar room brawl.. I guess someone wants it to be this way and it's working.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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My hero is back. A true defender of freedom and America.

James Traficant



I can never get these videos embedded. My bad.

You gotta listen to this!!!

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 20-9-2009 by allclear]

[edit on 20-9-2009 by allclear]



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
Actually there is a very legitimate complaint Americans are replaced at work by lower paid immigrants. Many companies make the person who is "fired " train their non-American replacement or lose their severance pay. THAT ticks off a lot of people. I walked rather than do the training.


Yes, there are legitimate complaints. I am not necessarily speaking of you but some use these very remarks you are making to inflame passions which lead to misdirected and destructive behaviors that are injurous to addressing those problems. I have already commented on a small slice of the personal experience.


There is not enough work in the Mexican cities so the farmers have no choice but to come to the USA.


On that note, the situation could end up effectively reversed. Remember that by far they're just regular folks.


Do not get angry at the Americans upset when they see their friends getting the bums rush and the work place filling up with non-americans. Instead get angry at the Bank/Corporate Cartels that have changed the laws throughout the world and stolen the livelihoods of millions of people.


Yes, I will get angry at Americans that use legitimate complaints as a cover for hate. For them, I couldn't care less what the reason is. If they wish to be mature and not take their frustration out on anyone that happens to look like what they think should look like a person taking their jobs, well, that is fine.

Like I had stated, people should be here legally. Many naturalized and natural-born citizens that appear ostensibly to have just crossed the border yesterday agree as well but they won't side with you if they sense you are against them on account of ethnicity. They aren't stupid by a long shot.


...Monsanto...


Yes, they trouble me greatly and appear to be quite an abomination. Though I wasn't really adressing this issue and you took an unexpected tangent.


You and the rest who blindly support the current government because they label themselves "Democrats" are deaf, dumb and blind to the final act of the plan for a world wide food monopoly.


Me and the rest? Blindly support? You have no comprehension of what I posted in this thread. I am sorry but you won't snag me with that dragnet.


Still think Obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread ???




I don't and never did. Also, I don't think he's the only one responsible for open borders, not by a long shot and definitely not for amnesties.

Disclaimer: If your's was an ironic rant for demonstration purposes, then, nice one!


[edit on 9/20/2009 by EnlightenUp]



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Cythraul
 


An ad hominem attack basically. You see it everyday, not just by government but by anyone who cannot hold a logical arguement. They fail on points and research and so they attack the person saying whatever it is that they don't like. This method goes back as far as human beings do. The reason is that it is effective, used only by liars, cheats, and the ignorant.

Will we ever escape it? I doubt this. As always the mud sticks and the mudslinger comes away clean.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Well I don't know about you lads but it's always been my sincere belief that if you have some thoughts on whatever issue or a matter or anything really - you should just take it and run with it, holding it as high up as you can just to see if anyone will wave back.

Nothing changes if people call you crazy. I can't even bloody remember how many times I've been called that. The trick is in not caring. If more people spoke out we'd all be amazed at how many "crazy" ones we have


But then again... maybe I am insane.

Just my humble opinion.

XIIIth



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Your right. Tolerance is the goal and no one really seems to be able to accept that. If someone isn't saying what "they" want to hear, the solution is to social engineer (brainwash) them into submission.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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S+F A thread I have been meaning to write for some time, and a topic I have been commenting on in short even longer.

I focused on Conspiracy theories in one of my threads, and just as you brought up, everything conspiracy related is "nutjob" territory.

It's the same barrier that stops people from talking to those they love. Because these people quickly associate the label, which instantly discredits the speaker, and then the content is denied. It's such a wonderful tactic, it has always worked and probably always will.

Someone posted a video awhile back about an experiment. And I have been doing my damnedest to find it to no avail.


The experiment put 5 monkeys in a room with a staircase leading to a Banana. Soon one monkey goes for it and as soon as he touches the stairs all the monkeys are sprayed with water.

The next time a monkey went anywhere near the stairs, the other monkeys quickly attacked it. So they replaced one monkey.

The new monkey soon goes for the stairs and everyone attacks him. So they replace another monkey.

Soon he goes for it, and again, he is attacked. So they continue to replace monkeys.

Soon, none of the original monkeys are left and no one actually knows what happens if they touch the stairs. But, if anyone goes near the stairs they all instantly attack it.

They don't know why, they just know that's how it's always been done.


----


I think that really illustrates the issue at hand. Everyone is afraid to be the monkey who goes for it and speaks out, because all the other monkeys will attack it. Even though, they don't actually know why.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Everyone has an opinion and if someone chooses to degrade another because of their opinion is different, you don't have to take it personal. Turn it around and consider it their problem, not yours and walk away. I for one don't need people in my life who don't listen to my thoughts with respect.

It is a totally different matter, however, if you are trying to push your thoughts on someone who doesn't welcome them. I try to listen to the thoughts of others and not push my ideas when I know they aren't wanted. It is easy to discern the difference if you pay attention.

Course, this board is different, but I try not to address the insults, only facts.



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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Great thread


I can relate to that each time ...

I talk about the possibility of intelligent life else where.

I talk about the possibility tha 9/11 was staged.

I try to tell them that unfortunatly they been trained to not look further then their nose.

That there is much more going on on this planet then just our unmeaning lives.

Then I can ear: your Crazy!

Funny how a guy that turns out to help everyone all the time labelled as a smart guy. A wize in technology but when asked his opinion on any of these subjects then all of a sudden your crazy or just very naive.

I just like to think they are still sleeping and that one day there will be an event that will trigger them all to wake up at once and then its just going to be nuts. They'll run every where hitting their heads on the walls of unbelieve. But the worst I think is when they will realize that they were wrong all their lives and they should of listened to their conscience.

That day I'll be right there and say so who's the nutjob now


[edit on 20-9-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]



posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 11:55 PM
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Here is a very relevant speech given by Christopher Hitchens.




He can be crass, but that is his right.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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The fact that you are writing this here, freely and of your own accord kind of diminishes your point.

Youa re indeed quite free to speak your mind.

Be prepared to be challenged on some of your views if people find reason to challenge them.

Why should your point of view be any more valid than anyone else's.

If you make a statement, the onus is on you to back it up.



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Oddly enough I've also noticed that there seems to be a new MSM taking over ATS. It seems that the only people that get banned are the exact free thinkers that dare to offend the established members by stating a different opinion.

One might say that the exact people who pride themselves on their longevity as a member of ATS are the very people who have never dared to cross the line and overtly challenged something, but isn't that the point of ATS?

Are these really the best people to have as moderators? The people who do not dare to voice an opinion that is not so bland and mainstream that nobody in the past has ever thought to ban them?



[edit on 21-9-2009 by GigaloCool]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Freedom of speech = freedom to offend?

Really?

And what if someone enacts their freedom to respond, and kicks the crap out of the person enacting their so called "freedom to offend", or shoots them dead for the offense you caused?

Offending people for the sake of it just because they have "freedom of speech" just makes someone an ass.

Freedom of speech is a treasure, and a responsibility. Not an excuse for being a moron.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


Edited for context.

[edit on 21/9/09 by neformore]

[edit on 21/9/09 by neformore]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

Freedom of speech = freedom to offend?

Really?

And what if someone enacts their freedom to respond, and kicks the crap out of the person enacting their so called "freedom to offend", or shoots them dead for the offense you caused?

Offending people for the sake of it just because they have "freedom of speech" just makes someone an ass.

Freedom of speech is a treasure, and a responsibility. Not an excuse for being a moron.


Edited for context.



I think it was actually "freedom to not be offended". A lot of times, telling someone the truth if it contradicts their beliefs, will offend. Thus, the authors point would be... "don't get offended".

Obviously unnecessarily, since it's just their pride making them feel that way.

And to relate offending someone via freedom of speech, with direct bodily harm is completely out of line and it shocks me that from your position, you would equate the two.


The only three true laws we live by is not causing harm to people or their property, and not using fraud in our dealings. Kicking someones ass cause they hurt your precious feelings (most likely with the blunt truth) is not a right.

I may not believe in what a mans saying, but I would fight for his right to say it.


Originally posted by GigaloCool
Are these really the best people to have as moderators?


... he said it.. not me.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by king9072]



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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this is amazing and wonderfully insightful. I thank you for sharing exactly what's on our minds, OP



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


I am "sorry" you feel or seem to get the feeling that "most" that post against "imigrants are actually "racist" Because I for one am "hell bent and dead set" against ILLEAGAL IMIGRATION...

Now that being said... I do not consider myself a "RACIST" for the simple fact that I judge people on a one on one basis. (I hate to do this) but I have "black, red yellow and brown" friends.. and I do not catorgorize them by color or nationality, or religion or anything else.. I just have friends who are members of one sort of group or another...


I have friends who are of "African descent" sthat I argue with about President Obamma.. they don't think I am racist, they accept the fact I have differing opinions than them and OUR PRESIDENT..

I have friends that are "Mexican" and They understand my stance on ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS . so what has happenend in the USA where if you speak your mind and your beliefs you are attacked personally.. no matter what you say your character is attacke.. not your views..

your views and beliefs are no longer debated. you and your charachter are attacked, not even debated. it is just "if you don't belive the way I do well then you must be a degenerate!!!! and even if you are not "we" will prove you are...



posted on Sep, 21 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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Also the "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" does not gaurrenty the right to say whatever you want. at anytime you want to whithout repercussions...

Under the USA constitution the 1st ammendment secures the right for the masses to PEACEABLY gather and voice thier opinions without any repercussions from the government either state or federal..

In the USA the 1st ammendment does not give me nor anyone else the right to spout thier opinions any time nor any where.. and then not expect to have repercussions from the "guy next door"

Heck, if someone blathers about something I don't like off of thier front portch.. here in the USA they have that right.. I also have the "right" to argue with thier sorry butt, also I may show my arse by punching them in the mouth... and that has nothing to do with the 1st ammendment.. the 1st ammd. lets you speak your mind.. but you still have to deal with the repercussions afterwards...



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