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Death gets second chance after lethal injection botched

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posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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And this is why I support more efficient methods of execution such as large caliber bullets to the head and my personal favorite, the guillotine.

No margin for error there. None of this "I couldn't find a vein" crap. Quick, simple, effective. Keep the blade sharp and there is no suffering other than mental anguish which is irrelevant, as it will come with any execution. And it requires no medical officials, so that throws away the whole issue of doctors violating the Hippocratic Oath.


Bring back the Guillotine!!!




posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by silo13
 


Deny Emotion, Apply Logic.

Emotional blackmail will not change my opinion of this.


Emotion is what makes us human. To deny it is to deny ourselves.
You are under the assumption that emotion and logic are exclusive of each other - they are not. Living life by logic alone would make us no more than robots.

That being said. If it were my son, I would have logically stuck the needle in the mans neck and then enjoyed the overwhelming emotion of justice.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
I expected the "I don't care what he did, string him up anyway!" crowd to appear here, you certainly are quick off the mark today!!

That's a cop-out.


Kryties,

Please try thinking yourself before you post. Here this is from your other post above. I consider this your cop out.


Ok, so I am going to probably make a few more enemies by saying this but I truly don't care .I do not care what this man did, or any man for that matter, nobody deserves to have to go through that twice. Once is bad enough.


Do try to think before you post and not emote so. You assume much here and try to pass it off as logic and reason. Don't misunderstand me here. I am not against logic and reason. I just do not agree with your tack attempting to pass as logic and reason or non emotions. You are not so subtle passing your passions off as logic and reason. I can find this tack over and over is books on Occult Religions. Yielding to your passions while hiding it behind logic and reason.

Lots of people put their lives and safety on the line for their moneys and families daily. They have to go through just such emotional experience regularly and knowing that if they mess up they can be killed or maimed horribly. These peoples must come back to work and face this over and over and over. This is called discipline. They must discipline their emotions or hurt themselves or others...or even get killed or kill others. What makes this man so special??

But once again ...who is speaking for this 14 year old who lost their life to this person?? Who is speaking for the others who might have lost their lives to this person or others like him.

Your debate point seems to be that people can change. That issue did not come up in the court proceedings and was not a debate point when justice was being decided. Why would you think your placebo point is so significant in view of the circumstances of this execution??

As I understand it...executions are supposed to be tried or attempted twice before any debates on the third time are done.

As to the cost of an execution...that too is a placebo argument as it does not take into consideration the positive value of the victim or victims had they lived....the benefits of these people in a social structure..dollar amounts...or just plain olde good work...decency. You falsely focus only on the person being executed.

I do not find your debate points to be reasonable or logical. Like many things in this world it initially looks good on paper but is in fact ..not good.
Your debate points are those of instant gratification motives...exactly the motives this person used when they killed that young girl.
Your logic and reason cheapens the value of the rest of our lives and those of our generations. It cheapens the value of those of us and our generations who choose to live under discipline and social guidelines not instant gratification.

And by the way...I am not interested in changing your mind on this. This post is for the other readers out here so that they can round out their thinking and see the flaws in yours.

You are also not my enemy..but I have learned and taught myself to spot people with your thinking pattern in the dark and from miles away.
You are what we call High Maintenance...and at the expense of others to put ointment on your sentiments while thinking it is the high moral ground.
You expect to default through with your points...as if they are the high moral ground.
No thanks. We are not interested.
Public Education here is hard at work programming a new generation of emo types like you under the false guise of logic and reason....passion.
There are a host of talk shows on the radios and television running the same program continued education/programming to get folks on an emotional puppet string under the guise of logic and reason while actually cultivating passionate puppets.
And these programs too are occult in their nature.

Do I need to take a DNA or lie detector test on this post??

This is not emotional blackmail. Deal with it. You are grown up not a Victim. Nor is the person being executed ..a Victim.
The Victim Dictum also does not play well here. The talk show circuit/circus has educated many of us to the overuse and abuse of the Victim Dictum as a false moral high ground.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 19-9-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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It's hard not to reply from an emotional perspective for me. I'm all for keeping this guy alive on the condition that he be handed over to a group of abuse survivors and moms and dads who have children who have been sexually abused and letting them do with him as they will.

Then again, I write from the perspective of a parent and also someone who was lucky enough to not be murdered by their rapist. I also, to an extent, write from the perspective of that 14 year old girl that this creature kidnapped, raped, and murdered. That is the same age that I was when my own 4 years of being raped on a daily basis started. I know what I lost despite being allowed to not be murdered. Believe me when I tell you that there is no punishment on this planet that is harsh enough for that creature. Frankly, a quick and painless death is rewarding him. It certainly isn't what he deserves.

I'm fine with being thought of as some barbaric, animal skin wearing, dancing around the campfire, neanderthal. I'd rather be thought of as that, than be remembered as dead like this creature's innocent child victim was made to be. I'm good with my emotional response and really wouldn't lose any sleep, either, were I afforded the opportunity to get in on making this guy miserable up until the minute he dies.

Letting him live in comfort and peace in a prison for the rest of his life when his victim isn't allowed to live at all? Not so okay with that.

Take care,
Cindi



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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I think the way the death penalty is handled in the United States is really hypocritical.

The whole meaning of a death penalty is to put someone to death but I don't think the gov really understands that. There are more efficient and far more lethal ways to put someone to death rather than using lethal injection. One bullet to the head from a gun is all it takes. But this method of execution is looked down upon because it is seen as too "barbaric" and "violent". Lethal injection seems much more humane since there is no blood and gore involved. The ironic thing is that the humanness of lethal injection has been put into question because there are concerns that a the person receiving the injection can become conscious while they go into cardiac arrest (which is extremely painful). Of course no one really knows this for sure because the person being injected is paralyzed so they can't scream for help or moan in pain. In cases such as this it would be much more humane to simply shoot the person in the head but I guess that is too violent right?


The gov needs to make a choice. Either you are going to put people to death or you aren't. You can't wrap death in a neat little package and make it pretty. Death is not pretty, it is ugly. And if you are going to administer the death penalty in an efficient manner then you are going to have to do ugly things. If you don't want to do whats necessary then don't have a death penalty in the first place.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by digger2381
And this is why I support more efficient methods of execution such as large caliber bullets to the head and my personal favorite, the guillotine.

No margin for error there. None of this "I couldn't find a vein" crap. Quick, simple, effective. Keep the blade sharp and there is no suffering other than mental anguish which is irrelevant, as it will come with any execution. And it requires no medical officials, so that throws away the whole issue of doctors violating the Hippocratic Oath.


Bring back the Guillotine!!!


That will never happen because the gov doesn't want to come off as being "barbaric".

Its funny because what appears to be the most violent means of death may be the most humane.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by RancidCat
 


Keep it real.. Not sure why we spend the time and money on injections and whatnot when I can get a bullet for pennies on the dollar. Yea it might cost to have someone clean the mess up but we can always have a slave.. I mean INMATE.. do it for "free".

I'd rather be shot by a firing squad. Much more dramatic and fun.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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better yet. just throw the rapists at a cell with crazy murderers with axes. that should take care of the work.

Or throw the murderers in a cell with crazy rapists, that would work fine too.

heck, why be "humane" with individuals who are not "humane" to begin with? these criminals did not think about the well being of their victims, why should we be nice to them?



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by ItIsWhatItIs
reply to post by RancidCat
 



I'd rather be shot by a firing squad. Much more dramatic and fun.


It is cheaper, I never understood why the US have gas chambers and electric chairs and lethal injections as a death penalty. A bullet is cheaper (I'm against the death penalty btw).

Anyway: the guy committed a crime and must be punished, that's the system. he fact that it failed has nothing to do with it -he must be put down. The opening poster said something like, 'it failed, so why don't we give them a lifelong sentence instead?'. Deny emotion, apply logic you said. English has a nice proverb for this.

And for the one(s) wanting to put the convicts' genitals trough the meat-grinder: you don't know what you're talking about. The convict committed a crime, and by punishing him in such an savage way you lower yourself to his level. Below human.



[edit on 19-9-2009 by -Thom-]

[edit on 19-9-2009 by -Thom-]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Always been a bigger supporter of death by firing squad, a needle is not reliable enough.

Some individuals are so violent they are a danger to the very inmates that inhabbit the prisons and sometimes they have to be removed one way or the other.

While not a staunce supporter to the death penalty I do believe that they can atleast be taken out of life in an effective way.

They dont deserve an execution that is inhumane.

[edit on 9/19/2009 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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I was wondering why this story got so many replies, I read it elsewhere but just had to check this thread out.

I'm sorry OP, any man who has raped and murdered a 14 yr old girl with her life ahead of her, does not deserve compassion or consideration, I'm sorry bud, you may have a good heart and the best intentions, but channel them to the family of this poor girl, not this animal.

My deepest sympathy to the girl and her family, and to the OP, you're a good person, just a bit naive.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Ever since I came into this thread this morning and seen OP thinks the rapist murderer should be allowed to live. After what he did.... I've been thinking for sometime, I still cannot fathom how you came to this conclusion? THE MAN RAPED AND MURDERED A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL... Not too clear what he did?
Well he took away her innocence while the poor defenseless kid was probably thinking of god only knows. Then he stuck a knife in her SEVEN times. Yeah this guy would benefit society sitting in a cell feeding off OUR MONEY.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by kj6754
 


Of course not. I mean that would be a contradiction in terms. Government and Efficiency.

but seriously, you're ending a life. It is barbaric. It is brutal. It is death. To make it pretty and wrap it in a bow is ridiculous. It detaches the reality of the situation from the truth of it.

I feel that if someone is going to be killed for an audience as is the case with our execution system here in the states, the audience should have to face the full truth of what they are participating in and advocating for by their presence.


Not to mention the issues of failures with the current technology in an attempt to end life quickly. Ol' Sparky has failed, Lethal Injection has failed, Gas Chambers have failed.


Thus the simple beauty of the Guillotine still reigns supreme. Once the head falls into the basket, you know you've done it right.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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This man did sick and terrible things, and he should not be allowed onto the streets ever again, it simply isn't safe to do so. But he should not be executed...


Where did we gain the right to end anothers life? Where did we get the right to say I'm going to kill you, and hey guess what, I get away with doing it scott free because I wont be braking any laws?

Where did we get the right to start commiting some of the same heinous crimes these people have commited, yet say we havn't taken ourselves down to their level? Where did we gain the right to murder legally?

"Let he who has commited no sin cast the first stone" John chapter 8, verse 7.
(Yes I probably quoted it wrong)



Imagine this man had parents who sitll cared for him, now imagine he is excecuted for his crime of murder (forgetting the rape for this example), don't the mans parents now have the right to have the excecutioners excecuted for killing their son? Wont the parents of the excecutioners then have the right to have the original mans parents excecuted for killing their sons/daughters?


Luckily I live in the UK, so any taxes I pay will go towards keeping these people locked up (at least if our system wasn't so nice on offenders it would), but I would not live in a country where my taxes paid for legalised murder... I thought we were better than that.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by StevenDye]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by RenDMC
 




I would like to see people who murder others, have their own lives taken. The EXACT same way they did it to the victim.


An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. - Mahatma Gandhi



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Kram09
It's called forgiveness anyway, a trait many people on this bored seem to have forgotten. You should try it sometime.

You see a lot of Americans on ATS talk about Middle Eastern countries and how they are so "barbaric" over there and uncivilized, stoning and beheading people.

How is this case any different, apart from the method?


I'm willing to forgive him, once he pays the price for his actions with his life.

As for stoning to death, it's seems that is the punishment for adultery over there, we don't execute anyone here in the U.S. for Adultery. Apples and organges. It does seem extreme considering the crime.

The beheadings carried out by the Saudi government are their form of death penalty, granted some of the crimes don't seem to justify a death sentance, but those are their laws.

I will grant you their punishment for crimes is much more stringent. The big difference is in what crimes there call for the death penalty when in the US they would call for different punishment for the most part.

The outcry was more for terrorists sawing off heads of totally innocent civillians, usually in a very gruesome manner. I would venture that the Saudi executions by sword are very similar to a guiltione.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Glencairn
 


and also someone who was lucky enough to not be murdered by their rapist. I also, to an extent, write from the perspective of that 14 year old girl that this creature kidnapped, raped, and murdered.


In My Opinion, YOUR VOICE - and the voices of others who are Adult Survivors - are the only voices that should be heard and the only opinions that should matter.

Period.

Because NO ONE - and I mean no doctor, no lawyer, no judge, no law maker, NO ONE knows, but you.

I hope you find peace, and if you have, I hope you keep it, and with joy.

peace


[edit on 19-9-2009 by silo13]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by StevenDye
Imagine this man had parents who sitll cared for him, now imagine he is excecuted for his crime of murder (forgetting the rape for this example), don't the mans parents now have the right to have the excecutioners excecuted for killing their son? Wont the parents of the excecutioners then have the right to have the original mans parents excecuted for killing their sons/daughters?



So just cause someone loves them, they shouldn't pay the price society has determined for their actions? No the parents of the condemned would not have the right to see the executioners executed, since he had been executed in accordance with the laws of the State. Stop being silly.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


And yet it is people who have suffered such terrible things that can never become fully emotionally detatched. Many others can-not also, but someone who has suffered rape will NEVER become fully detatched.


And emotion should play no part in deciding if a man dies or not.

(Maybe I should say in this part I KNOW there will never be full emotional detatchment because of something else that happened to me.)

[edit on 19-9-2009 by StevenDye]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


I am not being silly, it was not posed as a serious question...but it sounds entirely fair to me.

You are going to kill someone, so why not have the same done to you...?

Again, where did we get the right to legalise murder...nobody should have that right...

[edit on 19-9-2009 by StevenDye]




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