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Death gets second chance after lethal injection botched

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posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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The death penalty needs to be abolished. It serves no purpose. It is expensive. It is an ideal that should of expired a long time ago.




posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
It costs more to execute him/her than to imprison them for life. Nice try. So you are actually agreeing with me are you?

www.ocucc.org...
www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Things You Should Know About the Death Penalty

COST: It is cheaper to incarcerate a murderer for the rest of his/her life than to execute him or her. Statistics show that the average cost for 40 years of prison is $600,000 to $700,000. An execution normally runs $2 million to $3.2 million dollars.


[edit on 19/9/2009 by Kryties]


Woah. I did not know that. So um, how much does 6ft. of rope go for these days?



posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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Just to add to the conversation....
True Story

My grandma, R.I.P., was a spanish interpreter for the courts and correction facilities for 20+ years and she was there to witness a botched lethal injection as well. The guy who was sentenced to death murdered 2 guys for trying to rape him, apparently he killed them to save his "honor" and he was sentenced to death. When she was there at the execution of the inmate to translate they screwed up big time, apparently this guy was huge and when they injected him it didn't kill him, but he was injected. They couldn't inject him again, I guess it's kind of like a double jeopardy and they ended up having to release him. Hopefully they dont release this dude though.

[edit on 23-9-2009 by freeyourmind1111]



posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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Iv'e read this entire thread and "he raped and killed a 14 yr old girl"excuse seems to be the justification for torture and bloody execution.I wonder if the victim of the crime was a homeless 28 yr old homosexual crack head,would the lynch mob feel so morally justified?



posted on Sep, 23 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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You kill, you die. There is more than one meaning to this statement but it holds true for everything.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by hitekrednek


Iv'e read this entire thread and "he raped and killed a 14 yr old girl"excuse


Excuse?


seems to be the justification for torture and bloody execution.


It's not torture, it's called not being able to properly jab someone because they've screwed their veins up. And it's not bloody execution, either, what's bloody about it?


I wonder if the victim of the crime was a homeless 28 yr old homosexual crack head,would the lynch mob feel so morally justified?


There is no moral justification, there is law, there is crime and punishment, cause and effect.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by hitekrednek
Iv'e read this entire thread and "he raped and killed a 14 yr old girl"excuse seems to be the justification for torture and bloody execution.I wonder if the victim of the crime was a homeless 28 yr old homosexual crack head,would the lynch mob feel so morally justified?



hitekrednek,

Went to public school and majored in drama techniques?? Are you a thespian??

Was the victim in this case ..in fact...a 28 year olde homeless homosexual crackhead??

Somehow I dont think " Diversity" is the topic here. Murder and rape are the topic and the justice behind it. Yet some people want to substitute their sense of "Drama."

Do I need to take a lie detector test here..or a DNA test??

However ...if it puts ointment on your sense of drama ...please continue.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by concernedcitizan
 



concernedcitizan,


Just one of the many reasons I'm hightailing it to Amsterdam. I feel the need to live with civilized people.


LOL LOL LOL.....now this is textbook....really textbook. Wow!! Are you ever in for an education. When You get there send us a line here on ATS and let us know how "civilized " is Amsterdam.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Lazyninja

It's not torture, it's called not being able to properly jab someone because they've screwed their veins up.


I'm sorry, but it is torture... I don't approve of the death penalty for a number of reasons, but if it is going to be imposed then it should at least be imposed humanely. This is inhumane.

There are MANY ways of killing a man (or woman....) that are more reliable than electrocution/lethal injection/gas and which cause minimal distress to the executor, the executee and the witnesses. These have been roundly ignored by the decision makers for not being 'unpleasant enough'. I would argue that not dispatching someone by the least traumatic means at your disposal amounts to torture, wouldn't you?

Okay, so you want an example - nitrogen aesphyxiation. Fast, painless, 100% effective and you go out on a high. "I don't want a child rapist to go out on a high, I want him to suffer" = torture. This aspect of the US penal system is based on vengeance, not justice, and it's simply immoral.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by hitekrednek
 


The 14 year old has a much better chance of changing things than a 28 year old. Their sexual orientation has nothing to do with it though I am not sure why you through that in aside from being melodramatic. The homeless part plays a bit of a role but not in the sense of importance but in the sense of ability to attain a position to create change for the better. Again in this case the 14 year old has a better chance to do that. The crack head thing well that was also add I believe for drama because really what chance does a current addict have to create positive change?

See the tactic you are using is to divert the attention from the truth and replace it with fantasy. The truth is a 14 year old was raped and killed were as a 28 year old homeless homosexual crack head was not. What exactly did the sexual orientation have to do with it anyway? Where you hoping to call anyone who said the 14 year old was more important a homophobe? Or did you want to say we hated homeless people?

If you or anyone else is so worried about the homeless why not stop spending cash so freely on the criminals and spend it on the homeless instead. Child rapists do not need to have money spent on them where the homeless do need the money spent on them.

Your tactic was to place what some might consider undesirable in the same position and hope for the same results. But even without things being undesirable you will still get a different outcome. While you are at it you might as well ask another question. How about what if it was an 80 year old quadriplegic man that was a Satanist? Again the 14 year old would get a greater out cry because she had a better chance of creating change for the better. But the imaginary 28 year old you mention would get a greater outcry as well because he would have a better chance of creating change for the better. Though really his chances are limited.

It is not about placing value on humans but looking at things logically. Those that are younger and in better health have a better chance of doing great things. True it is no promise they will but there is a better chance. I value a young life over my own for the same reasons.

Raist



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Anecdote. I was in Amsterdam interviewing for a job. When it was over and I had been hired at 6 figures and bithcin health benefits I went for lunch. In the cafe people were actually talking to one another. Strangers seemingly. Nary an I-pod or cell phone in sight. Noticing I was an American someone opened a conversation with me. We discussed politics, the economy, and life in general. It was pleasent and made me feel very welcome. On my return to the states I went out for a coffee. I-pods and I-phones galore. People huddled together in their little cliques. People getting visibly irritated waiting for their lattes. You can have it. I'm outta here. Can't hardly wait. It won't be soon enough.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by concernedcitizan
 


You are/were in a city..big city. I dont consider cities civilization. Nor big crowds. No thanks. Not for me Also I dont own an I-pod. Not interested.
Never had a latte. Not interested in that as well..nor waiting around to be served. I can make it myself in that kind of time. For some reason many people think this is life...waiting around to be served. No thanks. I could be kicked back relaxing or working on one of my projects rather than standing or sitting round waiting to be served. I hate lines.
If standing in line is civilization...you can have it.
Some people have no idea how much of thier lives they spend standing in line somewhere...because everyone else is doing it.
Civilization=standing or sitting in line waiting. No thanks. Not for me.

I have little use for Europe. Been to England, France, and Germany, Spain. No thanks once again. Also know what goes on in Amsterdam. No thanks. Not for me as well. Europe is going to have really big problems in the next twenty years. Much bigger than anyone here wants us to know.

Someone is also trying to make us Englishmen or Continentals. No thanks to that as well. While I dont care at all for big cities..even here....I also dont want to be a Continental or Englishman.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 24-9-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Then we can agree to disagree. Each to his own. That's cool.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 




Don, This is called stereotyping and is frowned upon by much of the media and public education except when they do it .. This is also the exact mentality/self justification/entitlement thinking which is trying to justify anyone with a dissenting opinion as "RACIST."

Stereotyping is cheap political censorship to default through unquestioned and unchallenged. Many of us are not interested in this technique as well. It has been so overused, misused, and abused in self justification. I probably need to take a lie detector or DNA test on this post!! No make over needed here. Thanks, Orangetom



Guilty as charged. Unfortunately, IMO 4 or 5 of the most prolific posters here deserve no better evaluation than that offered by stereotyping. They’re a perfect fit in other words and I just used shorthand instead of bandwidth.

It is just such non-thinking persons who are played like a fiddle’s strings by the right wing demagogues who want a world in which 1) the rich do not pay taxes, 2) foreigners (mainly Hispanics) are the evil beings, and 3) Star Wars successor will save America. Pure Reagan-esque revisited.

As for racism, I admit most white Americans do not see themselves as racists. In fact, those otherwise good folk have generally replaced old time, Jim Crow era exploitation and suppression with a healthy dose of paternalism on the cheap. All of which substitutes are race based. Unless one subscribes to the fallicious notion that blacks are genetically inferior to whites, then what other explanation can be offered to explain their plight?

I submit slavery and its aftermath. I’m waiting for another offer.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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I think if you guys actually saw this person strapped to the chair, with blood coming out of his eyes, you would feel some sympathy for him. It's easy to hate him when all you know of him is his crime. What happened to the girl is horrible, and does not need to be repeated on him. Isn't there better ways to honor her memory?



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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I haven't read this whole thread, and time is running short, but there are a couple of points I want to make before I go. Firstly the thought that he will spend 23 hours a day locked away with his thoughts is proof that who says this has never known the inside of a federal prison. In fed. lock up there is much more freedom than in the county jail system. This man would have recreation time, in addition to meals, and the "lock-down" time is only from 11pm to 7am. He will have limited use of the internet, a large library, a t.v. room, fitness center, and stations to play games. If he has the money he can even get a personal radio, and a small color t.v. for his room.

All of the above makes me a little sick. The reason for the expense incurred for locking a prisoner up, as well as the cost of executing them is because in this country we are more concerned with the rights, and comfort of criminals than with what they did. I believe that 23 hours a day in lock-up is a good idea, but that will never be the case for the most heinous of criminals.

As far as the cost of the death penalty being so much more expensive, that is true but not to the extent that anti death penalty activist make it sound. They never give details of the costs of trials for people being incarcerated for life. When you figure in the costs of their trials as well as their incarceration the difference in the totals are not nearly as big.

To fix the problem of expense however I don't think we should abolish capitol punishment, but rather streamline it. How? Well for one, speedy appeals. These people are allowed to spend years and years tying up the appeals process, costing tax payers money both in court costs as well as keeping them locked up for years. I say let them have their appeals, but make it quick. Secondly we should stop being concerned with the methods. I doubt this man thought out the most humane way to rape and murder this young girl so why should we be concerned with how humanely we kill him. I say a couple of bullets will get the job done rather quickly and in a very cost effective manner.

Well that is all the time I have right now, but I wanted to get my opinion out there. By the way I hope this shows that applying logic in place of emotions does not lead to a fixed conclusion that the death penalty is bad. On the contrary, by eliminating our emotions connected to how this prisoner is suffering, and being treated we can logically eliminate the problems of cost associated with the death penalty.



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Dr. N
 


Well I can see where you're coming from but I still don't agree that it's really torture. Btw in case anyone isn't clear, I'm against capital punishment for karmic reasons, as well as cases where innocent people might be being put to death. But I also believe in democracy, I believe in the rule of law, and I believe in decentralization. Meaning, in certain states, this is currently the law chosen by the state, and we should respect that law up until the point where it may change.

As for the torture part. I think lethal injection isn't about causing people suffering at all. I think lethal injection is our idea of a clinical death. The idea of putting anyone to death isn't something most people would enjoy, I think that's why injection is the preferred method. Gassing brings up associations with the nazis. Hanging is primitive. We don't want to think of ourselves as barbarians, so we choose a method which we can feel detached about. It's really about not wanting to feel guilt. Some might argue that if we're in such a system in the first place, just don't put people to death, problem solved.

I think if it were about vengeance and suffering there are plenty other methods we could use to end someone's life. I agree that nobody has the right to take someone else's life, but it's actually quite amazing to me, that considering the emotion which can surround a case such as this, that the victim's family, and society as a whole does NOT demand a bloodier and more satisfying execution.

By the way, can anyone explain to me how an execution costs millions of dollars?



posted on Sep, 24 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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If this has been stated before then I am sorry, but I am too tired and way too sick to read several pages to find if my response is done.


He tried to help them find a vein. There was no mental anguish seeing as he was trying to help them. If anything this sick guy probably got off on the attention. It is human nature to defend our children to the death, and no one can tell anyone otherwise. All your theories of "Emotional response being controlled" are crap, cause it won't happen. At some point instinct takes over and we do as we need to.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by Majiq
 




I haven't read this whole thread, and time is running short, but there are a couple of points I want to make before I go. Firstly the thought that he will spend 23 hours a day locked away with his thoughts is proof that who says this has never known the inside of a federal prison. In fed. lock up there is much more freedom than in the county jail system. This man would have recreation time, in addition to meals, and the "lock-down" time is only from 11pm to 7am. He will have limited use of the internet, a large library, a t.v. room, fitness center, and stations to play games. If he has the money he can even get a personal radio, and a small color t.v. for his room.

All of the above makes me a little sick.



So Abu Ghraib should be our model? The amenities listed above have been shown to keep the prisoners level of resistence under control better than hiring extra guards in cases where such activities are not offered. In a cell block with 50 prisoners, cable tv is worth 2 or 3 guards. Since the law requires the state to furnish health care for prisoners an exercise room and program is more to the benefit of the state’s taxpayers than it is to the prisoners. Finally, more than 80% of all persons behind bars today will be released back into the general public. What is smart about barbarizing those men? Why not try humanizing instead? Or is it better to release a mad dog? We need to quit thinking DUMB and try thinking SMART.




The reason for the expense incurred for locking a prisoner up, as well as the cost of executing them is because in this country we are more concerned with the rights, and comfort of criminals than with what they did.



So you want us to look (and act) like them? Hmm?




To fix the problem of expense however I don't think we should abolish capitol punishment, but rather streamline it. How? Well for one, speedy appeals. These people are allowed to spend years and years tying up the appeals process, costing tax payers money both in court costs as well as keeping them locked up for years. I say let them have their appeals, but make it quick. Secondly we should stop being concerned with the methods. I say a couple of bullets will get the job done rather quickly and in a very cost effective manner.



It is not the prisoners who delay justice. It is the courts. We have too many cases for the number of judges. We have too few lawyers willing to work for the public defender’s office. We have court rules that only allow ONE ground for complaint to be dealt at a time. All cases must first go through the state system before the Federal system is open to them. Sure, the prisoners are not complaining about the delays. But it is the taxpayers who do not want to spend the money necessary to hasten the final outcomes. Only the victim’s survivors and a few kinky people are in a hurry. People who want to be vigilantes and would likely have been up front in the old Ku Klux Klan days.



posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by silo13
 


Deny Emotion, Apply Logic.

Emotional blackmail will not change my opinion of this.


Want Logic?

Rape? - Check. Has be been raped? No.
Death? - Check. Has be been killed yet? No.

Apply equal justice for the circumstance. He killed a 14 year old girl after he raped her. He deserves no less than death. Want equality with brutal logic? He should be killed under the same circumstances and same manner.

Unfortunately the technology doesn't exist yet for him to relive the last moments of that 14 year old girl in it's entirety.

How about you go drop your emotions about the death penalty and that "what-ifs", and realize the man is a cold hearted rapist and murderer. Isn't that what you were invoking, your own emotions about it?

Point being, he is of no use to our society, and ended all his ability to be a productive member of society after HIS actions. And contrary to your popular belief, a case based on entirely circumstantial evidence does not stand up to death sentence verdicts in our nation, we're not that dumb.

As for the cost? .15 cents for a nice slug to the back of the head. No searching for veins, no chemicals. A firing squad is quick, effective, and lethal each time.

If you ask me, lethal injection is to easy for the man. They should put remotely triggered instant killing poison with inmates on death row, one that that's remotely released, and let him fester from the point of that for hours or even years, making him wonder, and be unsure of when death will strike him just like that little girl. Let him suffer each and every moment of the remainder of his pitiful life wondering when the drugs will finally be released.

Grow a spine and get off my lawn.



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