Death gets second chance after lethal injection botched

reply to post by ts117


OK, so how does all of that justify the use of the Death Penalty on innocent people? How would YOU explain, to the family of an innocent man or woman slaughtered by their government, why he or she was put to death? Why someone didn't realise that the system was about to execute an innocent person?

"Woops, sorry about that - we get it right MOST of the time" just doesn't cut it with me by the way.

I guarantee that ANYONE in this thread who was victim to, or had a close friend or family member be victim of, a wrongful conviction and death sentence would take a very quick about-turn on their beliefs that the Death Penalty is a good thing to have.

[edit on 21/9/2009 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties

You can speak all you want of the death penalty being a deterrent, tell that to the INNOCENT people that were wrongfully convicted, slaughtered, then found to be innocent after the fact. What do YOU say to their families (and don't say that's not your problem - YOU voted the death penalty to stay it BECOMES your problem) huh?

Actually that almost NEVER happens. Public defenders and anti death penalty advocates have no money to spare looking into the history of each case of an executed man or woman. What money they have they reason is better spent on saving the living, not to memorialize the dead.

The only useful statistic we have is the Illinois case. I have written about that above. In 2000, after finding 13 cases of wrongful convictions, Governor Ryan commuted the 167 men on Death Row to life in prison and halted further execution in the state “until we get it right.” So far, Illinois has not “got it right.” Seven percent of Illinois DP cases had the WRONG man. en.wikipedia.org...

On that basis, George W Bush had 11 innocent men executed during his 6 year stint as governor of Texas. Hmm?

[edit on 9/21/2009 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by Kryties

 

On that basis, George W Bush had 11 innocent men executed during his 6 year stint as governor of Texas. Hmm?

Which would make him directly responsible for their deaths as he had the final say on whether the execution was stopped or not. And because of this he should be held accountable to explain to the family members why he let innocent men die.

Actually, the man is a monster, he would find a way to justify it to himself. I mean he invaded Iraq on false pretenses and is responsible for the slaughter of thousands of innocent Iraqi's so I guess such a small number of 11 innocent men is nothing but "pocket-change" and "collateral damage" to him.

reply to post by Kryties


As per your link, "The United States Supreme Court ruled in Herrera v. Collins that it is constitutional to execute an innocent person as long as they had a fair trial."

Now if I were to blame anyone for innocent victims of capital punishment, it would be the overworked, underpaid, state provided legal defense. But you know what? Get busy on those executions and money saving so we can give them a raise and rid them of repeat clients.

Also per your link, "Since 1985, 92 persons have left Ohio Death Row...". Of those 92 only 16 were actually executed. Other than the minimal suicides, overdoses and natural deaths it would seem our appellate courts are working.

I guarantee that ANYONE in this thread who was victim to, or had a close friend or family member be victim of, a wrongful conviction and death sentence would take a very quick about-turn on their beliefs that the Death Penalty is a good thing to have.

"Deny emotion, apply logic"

reply to post by ts117


Your use of my motto "Deny Emotion, Apply Logic" to make a point against me is invalid as I have already explained, more than once in this thread, what the motto is meant to mean and why I use it. It most certainly does not mean deny ALL emotion, just the knee-jerk reaction type of emotion that floods in and clouds judgment.

If you had have read the entire thread you would know this already.

As to the case where a court ruled that it was OK to have executed an innocent man because he was found guilty by a court - I am not sure of what your point is but are you trying to say that because the courts said it's OK to do this then case closed? That's absolutely ridiculous. They have just covered their own asses so they can't get into strife when they accidentally execute the next innocent man.

[edit on 21/9/2009 by Kryties]

reply to post by ts117

Violent offenders? Kill 'em all. It doesn’t take a genius to predict that someone who enjoys the infliction of pain and suffering on others, will continue to do so. If your dog repeatedly bites you and may seriously injure you or someone else in the future, it is your duty to euthanize your pet. Repeat violent offenders are the same as dogs and I hate to quote (or misquote) a movie but, "Humans get arrested. Dogs get put down."

Tough talk? Try this on for size. The Reign of Terror (1793 – 1794), was a period of violence that occurred four years after the onset of the French Revolution in 1789. Incited by a conflict between rival political factions and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution.” Estimates vary as to how many were killed, with numbers ranging from 16,000 to 40,000. The guillotine ("National Razor") became the symbol of a string of executions.

The French government established the Committee of Public Safety and was ultimately dominated by Maximilien Robespierre. "La Grande Terreur" (The Great Terror) ended in the coup of July 27, 1794, in which several leaders of the Reign of Terror were executed, including Robespierre, its first advocate of the guillotine. en.wikipedia.org...

Lastly, the money that could potentially be saved by ridding society of the animals with no redeeming qualities, our penal system can focus on rehabilitating prisoners instead of creating them while also providing more money for our educational system to prevent people from being sent to prison in the first place.

Thanks but no thanks. Sounds to me like a good resume for a key job with Pol Pot, the late leader of Cambodia’s Khmer Rouge who did just that between 1976 and 1979. en.wikipedia.org...

PS. Equal Justice Under Law is carved into the portico of the Supreme Court Building in W-DC.

[edit on 9/21/2009 by donwhite]

The reason I don't feel any sympathy for him is because I imagine that poor little girl crying her eyes out calling for daddy to save her as he rapes her and the sheer terror she might have felt when she realised that she was going to die.

edit on 19/9/2009 by Kryties


Emotion has a bad tendency to cloud judgment. This is why I try to live by the motto "Deny emotion, apply logic". Try it out, it works wonders for your outlook on life!

So let me get this straight - society should not take into account the terror and pain of a little girl being raped and murdered by a psychopathic man when attempting to determine his punishment (no emotion).

I guess we should all run around making decisions based on logic like a ROBOT.

But then again, isn't it EMOTION that makes us HUMAN?

Logically, your position to NOT execute this murderer lacks the same quality as this murderer - COMPASSION and HUMANITY.






[edit on 21-9-2009 by ACEMANN]

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Kryties

 

He can sit in the middle of a large desert naked if you want him to sit somewhere for the rest of his life.

Personally, I don't want my tax dollars going to a piece of crap like him.

The reason I don't feel any sympathy for him is because I imagine that poor little girl crying her eyes out calling for daddy to save her as he rapes her and the sheer terror she might have felt when she realised that she was going to die.

Think about that and tell me you are ok with him staying alive because he felt a little mental anguish.

Spot on. I wish I could give you 5 stars.

Sometimes, people just need a stark depiction to shock them back into the swing of things.

This guy raped and murdered somebody's baby girl.

If it were my girl, I'd save the state some trouble and take that spineless sack out back, myself.

reply to post by ACEMANN


I have answered all of your concerns within my other posts in this thread. I suggest you actually read it.

To punish a person for a crime with a punishment equal to or worse than the crime itself only sinks us to their level. I cannot put it any more simply than that. Of course, there are those who simply do not care that to punish a murderer they become one themselves - the point seems to drift right over their angry heads. Why is that I wonder? Because they are not thinking clearly, and knee-jerk emotion is clouding their judgment.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by ACEMANN

 

I have answered all of your concerns within my other posts in this thread. I suggest you actually read it.

To punish a person for a crime with a punishment equal to or worse than the crime itself only sinks us to their level. I cannot put it any more simply than that. Of course, there are those who simply do not care that to punish a murderer they become one themselves - the point seems to drift right over their angry heads. Why is that I wonder? Because they are not thinking clearly, and knee-jerk emotion is clouding their judgment.

I can't emphasize this enough - ARE YOU A ROBOT OR A HUMAN?

I guess we should all run around making decisions based on logic like a ROBOT.

But then again, isn't it EMOTION that makes us HUMAN? Logically, your position to NOT execute this murderer lacks the same quality as this murderer - COMPASSION and HUMANITY.

I just had a thought. Lets consider the Salem Witch trials shall we? I will be interested to see how many people try to justify burning people to death for being witches just because the town got overridden with irrational fear and other emotions....

"Woops, sorry about that. Everyone got so riled up that nobody stopped to think things through and we sorta maybe burned a few people to death......umm...sorry about that...."

Classic example of emotions overriding judgment.

You are soooo... lucky that you have the death penalty, I wish we had it here

in South Africa where toddlers get raped and their rapist get out on bail the

next day to go and do it again....it sad and sickening!

reply to post by ACEMANN


Are you blind? Because that would be your only valid excuse for not seeing the explanation of my motto written several times throughout this thread, including at least once on this very page.

Once more for the dumdums...

"Deny Emotion, Apply Logic" is aimed at the type of knee-jerk instant emotion that floods in and clouds judgment. I shall use an example to clarify that: Road Rage. When someone does something on the road that ticks you off - that instant flood of anger that comes in that some people don't let show and others let run wild. THAT is the type of emotion my motto is aimed at.

If you had have read the entire thread instead of skipping most of it you would have seen this explained several times.

a bullet is cheap and effective. putting an i love solman rushdie t shirt on him and delivering in iraq would work 2.

Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
You are soooo... lucky that you have the death penalty, I wish we had it here

in South Africa where toddlers get raped and their rapist get out on bail the

next day to go and do it again....it sad and sickening!

That is also wrong. The rapist should be jailed for many years, possibly life. Not everything has to be instantly about "Kill, Kill, Kill"you know.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by ACEMANN

 

Are you blind? Because that would be your only valid excuse for not seeing the explanation of my motto written several times throughout this thread, including at least once on this very page.

Once more for the dumdums...

"Deny Emotion, Apply Logic" is aimed at the type of knee-jerk instant emotion that floods in and clouds judgment. I shall use an example to clarify that: Road Rage. When someone does something on the road that ticks you off - that instant flood of anger that comes in that some people don't let show and others let run wild. THAT is the type of emotion my motto is aimed at.

If you had have read the entire thread instead of skipping most of it you would have seen this explained several times.

Ok, let me make this simple for you:

JUSTICE

It is the blindfolded woman holding the scales. Now, on one side of the scale, we place the rape, murder, life, and emotional suffering from the crime of the 14 year old girl.

In the other scale, we place the murder's raping, murdering, emotional pleasure from the crime, and life in the other.

You are saying the scales balance...how do you balance the scales of justice when the girl is dead on one end, and the murderer is alive on the other? You realize this is the symbol of justice don't you?



Again, I reiterate - your "logical decision" lacks the very same quality the murderer lacked - COMPASSION and HUMANITY. Let that sink in.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by ACEMANN]

[edit on 21-9-2009 by ACEMANN]

reply to post by ACEMANN


Actually your agenda is quite clear to me. You are simply trying to discredit me and paint me as a monster because you dislike my opinion. You dislike the fact that someone out there can look at a subject from a perspective that does not allow emotion to cloud judgment.

I asked a question before that no-one has answered, perhaps you would be willing to take a stab at it? Emotion played a major role in the Salem Witch trials - I am sure I do not need to remind you of what happened there. Knowing that emotion can cause a large group of people to fling logic to the wind and start burning people because they are "witches", how can you justify the death penalty when 1. Emotion plays a role - thats quite obvious by the responses in this thread and 2. It has been proven that innocent people have already succumbed to the death penalty?

And seriously, trying to paint me as some sort of robot is ridiculous. 1. I could care less what you think, 2. You are completely wrong and 3. You are making large assumptions about someone you know little to nothing about - the type of person who judges someone else before really getting to know them - you know the shallow type.

[edit on 21/9/2009 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties


Are you saying that someone like this deserves to live???

news.bbc.co.uk...

One day when something like this happens to someone you love you wil

understand, I am all for "eye for an eye".

I will personally take someone out if I caught him raping someone, he does not

deserve life in my opinion and I feel no shame in taking him out!

Just look at the stats and ask yourself if these pigs should be treated like

humans?? I dont think so!

reply to post by halfmanhalfamazing


/sigh

Another example of someone not reading the entire thread. If you had you would realise that I had a 13 year old sister who was raped and I spent the next 5 years helping her through it. No, she was not brutally murdered at the same time but the crime perpetrated on her was still awful to say the least. Neither my sister nor myself EVER had the thought that we wished him dead. In fact I specifically recall her saying once that she is glad she knows he will spend the rest of his life rotting in a jail cell (pretty much her exact words).

So yes, I have known someone close to me who's had a terrible crime perpetrated on them and YES I do believe that qualifies me to have an opinion - much more than those in here who haven't experienced it first-hand.

Originally posted by Kryties

/sigh

Another example of someone not reading the entire thread.

Do you read entire threads? You do realise that this thread is 12 pages long? Some threads are over 50pages long... are you telling me you read all of those pages?

If you had you would realise that I had a 13 year old sister who was raped and I spent the next 5 years helping her through it. No, she was not brutally murdered at the same time but the crime perpetrated on her was still awful to say the least. Neither my sister nor myself EVER had the thought that we wished him dead.

I am truly sorry to hear about this, It pains me that these things happen to people who do not deserve it.

In fact I specifically recall her saying once that she is glad she knows he will spend the rest of his life rotting in a jail cell (pretty much her exact words).

I am allowed to disagree, some of these pigs actually enjoy prison as they get"free" food and accommodation which they didn't have in the outside world.

So yes, I have known someone close to me who's had a terrible crime perpetrated on them and YES I do believe that qualifies me to have an opinion - much more than those in here who haven't experienced it first-hand.

I am entitled to my own opinion, you are also entitled to your own opinion, if we difffer... so be it. Neither can be right or wrong as it is a personal view on life!