Is organised religion on the way out??

reply to post by badmedia
No, no no, enourmous amounts of prophecy needs to happen before the antichrist is revealed, most notably the rapture directly preceeds it, (restrainer removed), and there needs to be a 3rd temple bulit first so that there is a temple itself for the coming antichrist to set himself up in.

Israel had to become a nation first and that was fulfilled in the 1967 war. Paul isn't the son of perdition, Christ calls paul to be his apostle to share the gospel to the gentile world himself on the road to Damascus.

There has to be a one world government, a one world currency, a one world religion, a "mark of the beast' put IN man's hand or in the forhead so that no man could buy or sell. ENOURMOUS amounts of prophecy preceeds the antichrist's arrival at the time Paul wrote that. Not to mention it was written 40 YEARS before John was given the vision of the end times when he was on the island of Patmos. (Revelation)



[edit on 22-9-2009 by NOTurTypical]

It gained it's worldy power through political appeal - the book of Romans/Paul and the gentiles.
Once given this power, it then went around and killed anyone who didn't go along with them. Even burning people in public to instill fear into the people.
And it won't be happy until it is the 1 world religion, and the church is the 1 world government.
(badmedia)


Badmedia. you said.

" IMO "

which is just that. your opinion. Paul IMO was a prophet and the majority of christians believe this.


The fact is that the Church is not out for world power but to spread the faith and communion to souls throughout the world.


which BTW malachias and Daniel and even far back as the OT predicted the church would spread throughout the world.

so what church is it?

see many people can have many theories, but the facts lie in scripture.


This Church the prophets of the OT and NT said themselves would spread throughout the world and communion, the new sacrafice.



and so those


" Killing anyone who didn't go along with them "

So our church has been around for 2000 years.. and we only have a couple instances of murder...

compared to 2000 years of harmless saints who didn't touch a fly and tons of popes who had no part of killing people, you call that killing (anyone) who didn't go along with them?


that's just not accurate... there have also been hidden plots against the church you don't know about but only God...


Those events were either done by hypocrites in our church or for a reason we don't know about.. but it doesn't mean the church itself which are the true saints are confined to murderes who had nothing to do with those events.



peace.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I assumed he was refering to the CATHOLICS murdering the Christians in the middle century......

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Here is the rub, and the #1 reason I think Christianity is the anti-christ religon. Even if I put away all the prophecy it fulfills as such.

On day 1 of being "reborn", it was made known to me in a very important way - Do not make yourself into an authority figure of anykind. Do not do this, do not in anyway do that. This world does not need another "the truth as according to badmedia" or anything like that.

So when Paul teaches and proclaims worldly authorities, teaches that their are church authorities and so forth - that is against the most basic things the father taught me.

And I know you want to see it in the bible, and I can do that. Jesus also says - do not do these things. So I know as soon as anyone tries to claim such authority in the name of god, they are anti-christ and false. And so the church and organized religion fits that bill.

See, authority teaches acceptance. We determine authority based on credentials and so forth, and then we accept them. This scientist has a PHD in this, he must be right - accept what he says. This preacher is certfied minister - he must be right, accept what he says. That is the entire purpose of authority - to be accepted.

But that is contrary to what the father gives and teachers. The father instead teaches understanding and wisdom. And understanding can not be accepted in such a way. When one gains that understanding from the authority, then that understanding becomes the only true authority. Those who step in as authorities act as a replacement for it. Thus, the pharisees sit in the seat of moses etc.

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

That is what this chapter is all about. And when I read this chapter, I do not see Pharisees - as I did not live then, but instead I see Christianity and the Church as the one doing what the Pharisees did in this chapter.

So I am all about Jesus and the father, but I can not get behind the church or organized religion. It's just not the way the father taught me.

reply to post by badmedia
The Bible is the only authority, "religion" never saved a single soul, only faith. it's impossible for Paul to be the antichrist, like I said, he was dead long before John even wrote Revelation which was around 90 A.D.

The antichrist is yet to come.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
which is just that. your opinion. Paul IMO was a prophet and the majority of christians believe this.

It's only "my opinion" because all we really know is what is attributed to Paul. For all I know those writings were some of his during a time when he was trying to gain knowledge himself. I think I'd be a bit terrified if someone took my words and tried to pass them off as the word of god, I don't think it fair if I blame him for others having done that. I try pretty hard not to judge people, but instead the actions themselves.

But as far as what writings and things are attributed to Paul and so forth, then yes it is true. What he wrote and what he did is what setup the Church and authority. It is the appeal to political authority, and so forth that lead to such things - there is no doubt or opinion in that.

If the anti-christ were to appear today, he would say the exact same things. No doubt about it. Making appeal to wordly authorities and telling the people to submit to that authority - that is what the anti-christ religion is all about.

And then this religion goes and separates the father from people, to make the father seem external. This is needed for people to accept that authority/anti-christ and deny that which can be found within.

I didn't ask for it to be this way, but it is and I can't ignore it.

The fact is that the Church is not out for world power but to spread the faith and communion to souls throughout the world.

And you are merely trying to get me to focus on 1 hand, while the other hand works in darkness. What people do for the eyes of men has little to no value for me. Find me a single organization or movement etc that has ever presented itself as doing anything other than noble things? It just doesn't happen, things are always presented as good. It's the entire reason they have PR departments. The church is no different.

which BTW malachias and Daniel and even far back as the OT predicted the church would spread throughout the world.

so what church is it?

The only true church and the church Jesus talks about is within. It is built out of understanding and wisdom - that which is truly "rich" and of value in the eyes of god. Because it is within no man can touch it.

Take a look at the last supper and Proverbs 9. There is a reason why they are similiar.

The physical church is merely a replacement to blind people.

see many people can have many theories, but the facts lie in scripture.

Not really, go ahead and show me the verses themselves.

This Church the prophets of the OT and NT said themselves would spread throughout the world and communion, the new sacrafice.

Go and learn what this means - I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

So our church has been around for 2000 years.. and we only have a couple instances of murder...

Only a couple? Oh yeah, you are one of those who thinks their are justifications for killing. It is all murder.

compared to 2000 years of harmless saints who didn't touch a fly and tons of popes who had no part of killing people, you call that killing (anyone) who didn't go along with them?

What about the people from other religions who also never did such a thing? As such I can hardly call it something of the church.

that's just not accurate... there have also been hidden plots against the church you don't know about but only God...

Those events were either done by hypocrites in our church or for a reason we don't know about.. but it doesn't mean the church itself which are the true saints are confined to murderes who had nothing to do with those events.

Well it certainly only applies to the guilty parties themselves, and being a "Christian" doesn't in itself make everyone else guilty. However, what I look at is what enables such people to use and manipulate people in such a way. And that is the fault of the religion itself.

Badmedia, the Church is not consisted in the hiearchy alone like the OT, it's in the saints like God said.

Not all popes have been bad, infact the majority have been great.



Now as for notyouttypical.

The bible is a religion. If you are bible alone you believe Christ is the only way and hold to the commandments which is a religion.


That's the fact.

But the other fact is the bible itself condemns personal interpretation and so god would of had to set up a body to nterpret which goes back to.


" whatever you lose is losed, and bind is bound on earth "


" Whos sins you shall forgive are forgiven and retain they are retained them "

No mortal man has the ability to attain a sin but those with jurisdiction.


" if he is sick call in the preist "

" when you come together to break bread "

" Do this in memory of me "


do what? I mean there are only 3 denominations or more, I forgot which practice a weekly communion...


" Antichirst shall take away the continual sacrafce "



if it's bible alone what will the antichrist take away?


You see the Church is biblical, and not only that but bible alone isn;t even biblical itself...


Now look, these arguments always end in cirular back and forth quarrels... so I'm gonna end on that and give you guys the topc back




[edit on 22-9-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia

 

The Bible is the only authority, "religion" never saved a single soul, only faith. it's impossible for Paul to be the antichrist, like I said, he was dead long before John even wrote Revelation which was around 90 A.D.

The antichrist is yet to come.

Oh, Paul is not "the" anti-christ. He is the false prophet who introduces and leads people to him - into the system/beast and so forth.

Surely you realize the "anti-christ" is nothing more than a figurehead on a system that has been being built for a long time?

" I desire mercy and not sacrafice "


real fast... That has nothing to do with communion.

That's out of context obviously considering God ordered sacrafices throhghout the Old testament..

It's in a different context badmedia..


Communion is biblical and goes back to the OT and NT...


when God rebuilds the Church you will see what I mean.

peace.

reply to post by badmedia
You need to understand the distinction in greek between the term "A/An" and "The".

There are Billions of "an/a antichrists", there is one ONE prohesied "THE antichrist".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia

 

The Bible is the only authority, "religion" never saved a single soul, only faith. it's impossible for Paul to be the antichrist, like I said, he was dead long before John even wrote Revelation which was around 90 A.D.

The antichrist is yet to come.

The bible is not the authority either. It is not "the" word of god. It is just a book. People putting the bible into such an authority is the same as pharisees sitting in the seat of moses.

And that is not something I'm saying against the bible itself, or that it needs to be gotten ride of etc. However, it does need to be in it's proper place, so that it can do it's proper role.

Take a house. If you put the foundation in the place of the roof, and the roof in the place of the foundation, then that house will fall - no matter what the quality of materials are.

The word those who wrote the bible heard - that would have been the word of god. That is what people should strive to hear and that should be their only true authority.

So what you are doing there is putting the bible as a replacement for that word.

Also, the bible includes both sides. The truth in it - the sword. The rest - a cover to blunt that sword. When people find the true word of god, then they will see the difference.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Salvation is by grace through faith ALONE. The Word og God is the only authority in the life of a Christian. Not the church nor her various doctrines.

What I meant by no religion has ever saved a man, is no church/man directed actions has saved a man. Look at the thrief on the cross, did he partake of communion? Was he baptized? Did he pay tithe?

None of that, he simply had faith that Jesus Christ was Lord and He had the power to save him.

Thief: "Lord, (acknowledging Christ is Lord), remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42

And what does Jesus say?:

".. Verily I say unto thee (all present within earshot) To day (present tense) shalt thou (him only) be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

Salvation is by grace through faith aloe, not by works lest any man should boast. Now, works definately determine rewards at the judgement of the believers, but that judgement isn't for the damned, that judgement is for the believers to determine if their works receive rewards or not.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I'm not based in the bible at all. That is the thing. I don't just make this stuff up, and I don't get it from men. I know you do not believe me, such is understandable.

But I had my own experience/vision. Now in that, I gained a ton of understanding. But that was a raw understanding, no expression to it. I can only explain it in terms of math. Rather than someone telling me 1+1=2, I was just able to understand math. How I expressed it was left wide open, and up to me.

Now, I found the bible after this all happened. I was astonished to see that Jesus taught and said what I learned. So when I read the words of Jesus in the bible, it's not like I'm reading the bible. It's like I'm hearing the father directly. For this reason I can honestly say that I recognize the father in Jesus. Even though it is nothing more than words we can read - I recognize the father in him. His understanding and what he gives is that deep.

But when I read Paul and look at Christianity, I see the opposite. I see what I was taught not to do. Not to make myself into authority and so forth.

Both are direct in how they line up in my understanding. I see both what I am told to do and follow in Jesus, and I see what I'm not to do in Paul.

I rely on the understanding the father has been given me. So the only way I could ever think differently of Paul/Christianity is for someone to either give me understanding on how what he says is true. Or, someone has to show me that the way people interpret his words is wrong.

Christians seem to follow Paul, not Jesus.

reply to post by badmedia
Do you have Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior? Irregardless of what Paul says??

reply to post by NOTurTypical


That is a bit of a tricky question. What do you consider to be "Jesus"? An idol, a being etc? If so, I can't say that is true.

But if you mean as in he is the way, the life, the light and the truth. Then yes. It is those things I follow.

I have honestly never meet anyone named Jesus, or by any "name" honestly. But I do know the father, and as it is the father within Jesus who does those things, then I can say yes in the manner.

I do not believe in the sacrifice at all. To me, that is the sacrifice of truth so that the lie of this world can live. I do not want to live in the lie, I want to live in the truth. And so when it comes to Jesus, I would say salvation can be found in his life, not his death.

I am not a Christian and I do not belong to the Christian religion at all.

reply to post by badmedia
Well, salvation was through his shed blood. And that happened at His death. He paid the punishment for us being a sinless man. A puishment we all owe to God for our sins. he did it out of love for us, you and I included.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by badmedia

 

Well, salvation was through his shed blood. And that happened at His death. He paid the punishment for us being a sinless man. A puishment we all owe to God for our sins. he did it out of love for us, you and I included.

Well, I don't think that is true at all. Sorry, but I will not turn Jesus into my whipping boy. If anyone should go to the "shed" for my sins, it should be me.

However, what Jesus shows is how to not live a life in sin, and that is where I see the father within him.

IMO, he came to bring sinners to repentance, which means to fix your mistakes. And he does that with understanding.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

one question about this prophecey nonsense... if all this is 100% going to happen why would the "anti-christ" even try? i mean if i told you tomorrow your going to go ask your boss for a raise but he will definitely say no would you ask anyway? no because you knew he would say no so there is no point.
Also. if God is making his plans so transparent if i were satan i would just say... skip the whole anti-christ part and just do it myself... kinda throws a wrench in the whole thing.

Originally posted by Aggamemnon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

one question about this prophecey nonsense... if all this is 100% going to happen why would the "anti-christ" even try? i mean if i told you tomorrow your going to go ask your boss for a raise but he will definitely say no would you ask anyway? no because you knew he would say no so there is no point.
Also. if God is making his plans so transparent if i were satan i would just say... skip the whole anti-christ part and just do it myself... kinda throws a wrench in the whole thing.

The antichrist doesn't believe in scripture, doesn't believe in propecy, and furthermore, the antichrist is just a man until he is possessed by satan himself.