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The secret service had every right to shoot him in the face.
Originally posted by patmac
I think that we should all start throwing our shoes at certain "elected" officials. This will be a non-violent and active protest against our government, meanwhile, the middle east region of the world would be smitten that we are adopting this practice.
We used to be a nation in which the Arab would share with the Turkman and the Kurd and the Assyrian and the Sabean and the Yazid his daily bread. And the Shiite would pray with the Sunni in one line. And the Muslim would celebrate with the Christian the birthday of Christ, may peace be upon him. And despite the fact that we shared hunger under sanctions for more than 10 years, for more than a decade.
He saw something he liked, recalls his former aide Adib Shabaan, who helped arrange the party. Uday tightened the focus on a pretty 14-year-old girl in a bright yellow dress sitting with her father, a former provincial governor, her mother and her younger brother and sister.
Uday's bodyguards picked up the signal and walked through the darkened room, flicking cigarette lighters as they approached the girl's table. Uday, then 33, flipped on his too, confirming they had identified the right one. When the girl left the table for the powder room, Uday's bodyguards approached her with a choice, says Shabaan, who was Uday's business manager.
When she demurred again, the bodyguards pursued Uday's backup plan. They maneuvered the girl in the direction of the parking lot, picked her up and carried her to the backseat of Uday's car, covering her mouth to muffle her screams.
After three days the girl was returned to her home, with a new dress, a new watch and a large sum of cash.
Saddam gave Qusay broad authority to oversee the crushing of the uprising. He did not entirely delegate the task. An eyewitness recalls watching Qusay, dressed in gray trousers and a blue jacket, arrive in Suera, where armed guards herded 300 Shi'ite detainees onto a field. The President's son, dangling a pistol in his right hand, walked up to the men and shot four of them in the head, according to a military officer at the scene. As he pulled the trigger, Qusay screamed out, "Bad people! Dirty criminals!" Qusay then ordered the execution of the remaining prisoners, got into his car and drove back to Baghdad. It was just one of many Shi'ite exterminations that Qusay ordered or personally performed in 1991, the ex-officer told TIME. The same source, one of Qusay's security commanders, said Qusay, for example, directed the execution of 15 families in Saddam City, a Shi'ite enclave in Baghdad.
Originally posted by nunya13
I'm finally getting a worthy amount of flags on a thread (so far) but only one poster wants to reply/add to the thread (not that I am minimalizing the one poster who has posted THANK YOU)?
I guess I'm beating a dead horse, but I thought it was interesting to see exactly what this man had to say. It was so much more than just throwing his shoes or losing control of his composure like so many of us do.
His act really had meaning to it.
Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by Aaron_Justin
I agree with everything you said about Obama. It still amazes me that the anti-war protesters are now all but completely silent just because a "liberal" is in office. Suddenly the deaths of innocent victims is a-okay to them as long as it's perpetrated by one of their (my) own.
Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
This guy was brave enough to stand up for his country. I may get some flack for this, but I think its admirable what he did. I can't imagine what it would feel like if some country came into America under false pretences and occupied our land. I do not pretend for a moment to understand the fear of living in a neighborhood that is turned into a war zone. If he was really tortured, and I have little doubt that he was, then hopefully he will find some peace after the ordeals he has suffered.
Some people feel that under Obama things like torture and war would slip into the past. I am of the opinion that he will only follow the same foreign policy that America has used for quite some time now. The same that Bush used.
You know I was going to give you a star for your post until I saw the second paragraph
Obama had nothing to do with this incident whatsoever. And he HAS so ordered the elimination of torture methods. So leave him out of it.
I think the Iraqi shoe tosser is a lunatic. It is admirable to stand up for your country but you are beyond nuts if you think you can slam a sitting US President in the face with a blood soiled shoe. He is lucky to be alive. The secret service had every right to shoot him in the face.
edit spelling mistake
[edit on 18-9-2009 by Wormwood Squirm]
When I saw the war criminal Bush, I wanted to show my resentment - after six years of occupation, this killer came to my country smiling and bragging about victory- Muntadar al-Zaidi
As he threw the shoes, Zaidi shouted: "This is a goodbye kiss from the Iraqi people, dog.
"This is from the widows, the orphans and those who were killed in Iraq."
"It was amusing - I've seen a lot of weird things during my presidency, and this may rank up there as one of the weirdest," he said.
Originally posted by calstorm
I never heard about him being tortured for it. can anyone verify it?
Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported. By mid-January, 2004, the number of confirmed sites climbed to fifty-three. Some graves hold a few dozen bodies—their arms lashed together and the bullet holes in the backs of skulls testimony to their execution. Other graves go on for hundreds of meters, densely packed with thousands of bodies.
"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves,"
* The 1983 attack against Kurdish citizens belonging to the Barzani tribe, 8,000 of whom were rounded up by the regime in northern Iraq and executed in deserts at great distances from their homes.
* The 1988 Anfal campaign, during which as many as 182,000 people disappeared. Most of the men were separated from their families and were executed in deserts in the west and southwest of Iraq. The remains of some of their wives and children have also been found in mass graves.
* Chemical attacks against Kurdish villages from 1986 to 1988, including the Halabja attack, when the Iraqi Air Force dropped sarin, VX and tabun chemical agents on the civilian population, killing 5,000 people immediately and causing long-term medical problems, related deaths, and birth defects among the progeny of thousands more.
* The 1991 massacre of Iraqi Shia Muslims after the Shia uprising at the end of the Gulf war, in which tens of thousands of soldiers and civilians in such regions as Basra and Al-Hillah were killed.
* A massacre of Kurds in 1991, which targeted civilians and soldiers who fought for autonomy in northern Iraq after the Gulf war, also resulted in mass graves.
UN experts confirmed in 1986 that Iraq had contravened the Geneva Convention by using chemical weapons against Iran...
...In 1988 Iraq turned its chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds...
...Estimates of the number of civilians killed range from 3,200 to 5,000
The regime of Saddam Hussein is tightening his grip on the country and defusing the possibility of a military coup by purging the army and executing officers who question orders, according to Source in south Iraq.
On Friday and Saturday, while the United States and Britain air strike was on the way, the Regime executed several officers, many of them are Shia
We used to be a nation in which the Arab would share with the Turkman and the Kurd and the Assyrian and the Sabean and the Yazid his daily bread. And the Shiite would pray with the Sunni in one line. And the Muslim would celebrate with the Christian
Originally posted by PhoenixDemon
reply to post by December_Rain
What do you mean "Sadaam didn't turn the country into a living hell?"
Lancet surveys of Iraq War casualties
The first survey published on 29 October 2004, estimated 98,000 excess Iraqi deaths (with a range of 8,000 to 194,000, using a 95% confidence interval (CI)) from the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq to that time, or about 50% higher than the death rate prior to the invasion.The authors described this as a conservative estimate, because it excluded the extreme statistical outlier data from Falluja. If the Falluja cluster were included, the mortality estimate would increase to 150% over pre-invasion rates (95% CI: 1.6 to 4.2).
The second survey published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006. More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, and 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13%), accident (2%), and unknown (2%).
The number of violent deaths derived from the household survey, plus the adjustments for missing clusters and reporting bias, was estimated to be 151,000 (95% uncertainty range, 104,000 to 223,000) from March 2003 through June 2006.
On Friday, 14 September 2007, ORB (Opinion Research Business), an independent polling agency located in London, published estimates of the total war casualties in Iraq since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. At over 1.2 million deaths (1,220,580), this estimate is the highest number published so far. From the poll margin of error of +/-2.5% ORB calculated a range of 733,158 to 1,446,063 deaths. The ORB estimate was performed by a random survey of 1,720 adults aged 18+, out of which 1,499 responded, in fifteen of the eighteen governorates within Iraq, between August 12 and August 19, 2007. In comparison, the 2006 Lancet survey suggested almost half this number (654,965 deaths) through the end of June 2006. The Lancet authors calculated a range of 392,979 to 942,636 deaths.
"The NEJM article found a doubling of mortality after the invasion, we found a 2.4-fold increase. Thus, we roughly agree on the number of excess deaths. The big difference is that we found almost all the increase from violence, they found one-third of the increase from violence."
"They roughly found a steady rate of violence from 2003 - 2006. Baghdad morgue data, Najaf burial data, and our data all show a dramatic increase over 2005 and 2006. ..."
January 2008 update: 1,033,000 deaths
Opinion Research Business published an update to the survey on 28 January 2008, based on additional work carried out in rural areas of Iraq. Some 600 additional interviews were undertaken and as a result of this the death estimate was revised to 1,033,000 with a given range of 946,000 to 1,120,000.
March 2003 to March 2005 report. - Iraq_Body_Count_project
The report says the US and its allies were responsible for the largest share (37%) of the 24,865 deaths. The remaining deaths were attributed to anti-occupation forces (9%), crime (36%), and unknown agents (11%).
Who did the killing?
* 37%. US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
* 9%. Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
* 36%. Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.
* 11%. Unknown agents (11%).
Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.
Who was killed?
* 24,865 civilians were reported killed in the first two years.
* Men accounted for over 80% of all civilian deaths.
* Baghdad alone recorded almost half of all deaths.
When did they die?
* 30% of civilian deaths occurred during the invasion phase before 1 May 2003.
* Post-invasion, the number of civilians killed was almost twice as high in year two (11,351) as in year one (6,215).
The 105-page report by Congress' investigative arm offers a bleak assessment of Iraq after 14 months of U.S. military occupation. Among its findings:
-In 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces, electricity was available fewer hours per day on average last month than before the war. Nearly 20 million of Iraq's 26 million people live in those provinces.
-Only $13.7 billion of the $58 billion pledged and allocated worldwide to rebuild Iraq has been spent, with another $10 billion about to be spent. The biggest chunk of that money has been used to run Iraq's ministry operations.
-The country's court system is more clogged than before the war, and judges are frequent targets of assassination attempts.
-The new Iraqi civil defense, police and overall security units are suffering from mass desertions, are poorly trained and ill-equipped.
-The number of what the now-disbanded Coalition Provisional Authority called significant insurgent attacks skyrocketed from 411 in February to 1,169 in May.
The study confirms that:
"Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children."
"Making conservative assumptions, we think that about 100,000 excess deaths, or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq,"
Study: 100,000 Excess Civilian Iraqi Deaths Since War
VERY BAD FOR IRAQI CIVILIANS
Doctors' survey of families estimates Iraqi wartime deaths at 100,000
U.S. Used Chemical Weapons In Iraq
Veteran admits: Bodies melted away before us.
Shocking revelation RAI News 24.
White phosphorous used on the civilian populace: This is how the US "took" Fallujah. New napalm formula also used.
The U.S. government has now admitted its troops used white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon against Iraqis during the assault on Fallujah a year ago. Chemical weapons experts say such attacks are in violation of international law banning the use of chemical weapons.
War Without Rules, Posted November 15, 2005
Yes, the US has used chemical weapons
Now we know napalm and phosphorus bombs have been dropped on Iraqis, why have the hawks failed to speak out?
Originally posted by PhoenixDemon
I'm mobile right now so I'm a bit handicapped to research the numbers...however, I would urge caution of citing "wikipedia" as a source...and if its so easy to believe that most of the MSM is lying or misleading the masses...
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com