Help Identify "The Desperate and Dangerous Far-LEFT Extreme Sub-Culture"

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posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by WalterRatlos
 


Thanks for your response.


Who are these people? Can you give me some idea of a "group" they belong to? I get that they want to overthrow the government, fascists, capitalists and kill cops, but who are they and are they considered "left-wing"?




posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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The ultra left ?

Aren't they those same people that disagree with Hannity, Beck, Coultier , O'Reilly et al ? Well you can see what damage they caused , going about voting in that president obama , that "antichrist" is taking you on an express train to hell by their reckoning.

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis 1935.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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If all you can see is a line with a left & a right then here is a group that exists in the far left and right: Crime/Drug Lords.
They have the capitalist love of money, the control of people of the left & right, the do your own thing of the left with no consequences, distrust/hate of cops (unless the cop is owned). They prey on the innocent, well actually everyone. They want their pleasure when they want it. Their methods lead others to violence against the people. They want the rules to apply to others & not to themselves.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus

The government IS the threat


Too much government is indeed a threat...but then so is too little.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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Who are these far lefties?

I don't know how many here are old enough to remember the late 60s and 70s. The radical SDS and the even more radical WeatherUnderground.
I remember some of them then planned to work within to take the country down.
I didn't remember than until recently, and I am sure almost no one else remember their pledge.

Apparently, they were serious.

Just Google Bill Ayers, Jeff Jones, Wade Rathke and William Radke.
I don't think these guys have changed their stripes and are no friends of our Republic or capitalism.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I'm glad you started this thread.
For me, left wing extremism is just as easy to spot as right wing extremism.
Though at the moment, right wing extremism is more visible as we have a democratic President in office. But I can't begin to tell you how many times I saw "Bush bashing" being accepted by the media and the general public. I'm not talking about a simple disagreement of policy, I'm talking about the type of hatred that, if seen demonstrated towards Obama, is 100% without a doubt racism (according to many on the left at least).
The labels people attribute to Obama are all fresh in our minds, but Bush's critics were just as non-creative in their attacks.
Bush has been labeled
* A Nazi
* A socialist
* A communist
* The antichrist
* A terrorist responsible for 911
etc...

I could continue talking about far-left extremists, but a picture is worth a thousand words... Which means I could either type about 50,000 more words, or I could simply present this link
.
www.zombietime.com...


Now, what's interesting to me is, much of the hatred displayed towards President Bush wasn't a 'sub-culture', as it was displayed openly in the media.
Maybe that's why you have a hard time seeing the hatred coming from the left - because it was so widely accepted.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:12 PM
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First of all, thank you to the OP for this topic. After the original post, www.abovetopsecret.com..., this post is much appreciated.

The problem I have with the original premise...




So, I would like to ask ATS members for some genuine help in identifying this sub-culture of the left. I think most would agree that it could have something to do with "Obama worship" (real worship, not just support), maybe socialism (real socialism), perhaps even people to the left of Obama - who think Obama is too conservative? And there might possibly be a religious element?? I know there are some children who sang songs about Obama when he was elected. I know there are people who back Obama no matter what he does. I don't know of a socialist, Marxist or Communist organization pushing that agenda to any degree...


...is that, we're only supposed to identify a sub-culture or extremists. What if the sub-culture and extremists have hijacked the democratic party?

I am as right wing as they come. Without going into the litany, I love God, guns and my country. One would think that the left wing would love God, guns and country too, but just have different ideas about how to govern. Without God, guns and country...would this nation ever have existed?

I don't think that's the case. Somewhere along the way, in my humble opinion, the democratic party was hijacked BY the sub-culture extremists. I'm not talking about the rank-in-file members, I'm talking about the establishment.

I think most people that come from the end of the spectrum where I reside would agree with me. The problem for us is that a large, but invisible, revolution happened...and a shot was never fired. The culture, the media, and most importantly, education was overrun by people who actively sought to undermine the values upon which this country was founded. (Google "frankfurt school")

So, to the OP's original question...Who? I would say, the left IS the sub-culture. And to its credit, the sub-culture has supplanted the culture.

Now, political correctness, environmentalism, multi-culturalism, and Big Brother's solutions to society's problems ARE the establishment. What possible sub-culture could exist? The exiles in this country are me and my brethren; and we have been for a long time. GWB and GHWB were no friends of mine. And even though I loved Reagan, he really didn't do anything to roll the revolution back.

But I digress.

I love my country. I love its history. Though we weren't, and still aren't, perfect, we have always been the best. I think (hope) most people agree.

The left-wing extremists and the sub-culture are the ones who wish to change this country from what the founding documents intended.

Finally, back to my original point, and in response to the OP's question: Their is no left-wing sub-culture. The left-wing is the sub-culture. And to make my point: the environmentalists, unions, media, education and anyone who doesn't believe Big Brother is the solution...vote for (D)emocrats. All the rest of us either vote for 3rd parties or hold our noses and vote for (R)epublicans.

If you haven't already done so, please do your own research on Gramsci, Marcuse, and Adorno to see if I'm right. Did the left-wing extremists win a loooooooong time ago?

maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...


www.hoover.org...

www.marcuse.org...

.02

Just for posterity's and accuracy's sake: anyone who hurts/hates/kills/or otherwise does bad things in the name of their cause is the problem. We should all be working towards maximizing freedom and liberty.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by itscoming]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 04:29 AM
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So, apart from extrapolated type threat that may be in existance today or may not be , actual threats .. as in the need for federal agencies to be aware of , are in short supply ?



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


Thank you for you response.
And for the link to zombietime. I'm reading it now and I definitely see the point it's making and I'm pretty sure I agree with you.



Part of that reported increase in investigated threats is undoubtedly due to an increase in actual threats; but part of it is almost certainly due to an increase in threats which get reported by the media and are therefore brought to the Secret Service’s attention.


You know, if there was a picture of a protester carrying an effigy of Obama being hanged, that would be IT! The media would simply explode! And I saw a lot of these Bush pictures at the time. But by that time, I was so anti-Bush myself that they didn't have the impact that it would if it was Obama. I am not anti-Obama at this time.



Just to be clear, I have no problem with the "Impeach Bush", "Bush is a murderer" pictures. That's free speech. It's the "Death to Bush" talk that disturbs me.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by itscoming
...is that, we're only supposed to identify a sub-culture or extremists. What if the sub-culture and extremists have hijacked the democratic party?


Very interesting take on this issue! You could be right. But I think it's just as true that the right wing extremists are hijacking (or have hijacked) the Republican party. Neither party holds and lives by the ideals of the original party.


Without God, guns and country...would this nation ever have existed?


Probably not, but without aggression, oppression and violence toward the natives and Africans, this nation would never have existed either. And these are nothing to be proud of. As well, without the liberal ideals of compassion, inclusion (multi-culturalism) and community, this country wouldn't be the great country that we all love. I'm not disagreeing with you, just adding to what you've said.



I think most people that come from the end of the spectrum where I reside would agree with me. The problem for us is that a large, but invisible, revolution happened...and a shot was never fired. The culture, the media, and most importantly, education was overrun by people who actively sought to undermine the values upon which this country was founded.


I'm going to agree with this statement, but I disagree that this revolution came from the left. It came from the greed, hunger for power and control and self-interest of people from all ideologies, IMO.



I love my country. I love its history. Though we weren't, and still aren't, perfect, we have always been the best. I think (hope) most people agree.


I certainly do.



Just for posterity's and accuracy's sake: anyone who hurts/hates/kills/or otherwise does bad things in the name of their cause is the problem. We should all be working towards maximizing freedom and liberty.


On these points, we can definitely agree.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Here's a whole government report on "Left-Wing Extremism" from April 2001. It's in PDF form.

Then there's the Weather Underground.

Here's a paper on the status of "Leftist Terrorism" post Soviet collapse. It goes into "single-issue" terrorism we see from groups like ALF.

It's all just a bunch of idiots with violent tendencies gravitating around some "issue" they feel they can relate to or one that they feel will excuse the violent acts they already feel compelled to make. They're everywhere.

Not everyone affiliated with an issue that some nut is affiliated with is a nut just as not every nut is affiliated with an issue.

To pretend it doesnt exist where you fancy yourself to be is naive. To pretend that the violence that does exist where you fancy yourself to live is somehow more noble than the others or justified over the others makes you a nut by proxy.

Google news "leftist violence" and get fingers being bitten off, windows smashed, Molotov's thrown and Google "rightist violence" and you get the same kind of crap.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by thisguyrighthere]


AS far as we are involved into any form of politics, we are "people involved in issues", as you call it in your akward way.

There ARE plenty of differences between "extreme leftist" groups and right-wing extremist groups, such as:

Radical left attacks cars, corporate stores, conservative news outlets, police stations and banks based on the idea that these are capitalist infrastructures, while right-wing extremists attack businesses owned by immigrants and jewish people and abortion clinics, based upon racist or religious fundamentalistic ideas. The first attacks the SYSTEM of organized theft that is dominating this world, and the officials who defend it like trained and paid soldiers; while the latter attacks the ordinary PEOPLE (often civilians) that the big crooks are accusing to be parasites, criminals, abusers or terrorists.

Right-wing extremists usually do not use molotovs. Left-wing extremists do, as it even became a trademark of anarchists and radical left worlwide, but that did'nt happen in the US for quite a while.

Right-wing extremists are contemptful bigots, not very creative but rather controlling, usually undereducated with a conservative background and actually care about respecting the "Law" and even defending it, to the extent of enforcing it on other people through coertion and terror (such as dads, patriarchs, preachers, cops, security agents and other zealous "citizens").

Left-wing extremists in North America do NOT work for the police, the CIA or any other government branch (and please rule out Obama... he's with the Wall Street gang. No Che Guevara here). They care about radical social change on specific or more general issues, from outside of the system rather than "from within", and from below rather than from the top. On the contrary, there were fascist revolutions and attempts at revolutions carried by right-wing extremist at many times in history, and the most well-known examples are the Bush gang taking absolute power over the State in 2001 through vote fraud and a major false flag terrorist attack, Hitler taking over power in 1933 and taking absolute power over Gemrany through another false flag attack, their ally General Pinochet on September 11th 1973, and that Business Plot fascist coup attempt in 1933 in Washington (same year as their pal's rise to power in Germany!).



[edit on 19/9/09 by Echtelion]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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HMM,hard one..

Some athiests that had smoke blown up the arse in colledge that capitalism is the enemy..While its not the enemyof honest hard working people..

Any group that perpetrates lies though its true in order to gain a foothold in week willed minds..

Offers half truths underscored by lies or contempt..

Groups?..kinda hard as they know not to have a figure head,Without a group,justas a army its harder to retaliate to..

But the head of Acorn or AEIU is it..The groups that waste tax moneys for illegal acts just to have the system bankrupt itself..Dishonest capitalism..

Anyone funded from george Sorros,and his drug cartel.. just about..





[edit on 19-9-2009 by Redpillblues]



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by itscoming
Without God, guns and country...would this nation ever have existed?


There was already a nation (or nations) there, Indian civilization across the continent was growing, prior to European colonization.

Back to the discussion.

The extreme left champions itself as the defender of liberty and sworn enemy of the right - even though it is identical to the right. In the UK, for example, the far right is Islamophobia, but the far left is anti-semitic.

Both sub-cultures are both repugnant and decadent.

The right is proud of nationalism, but socialists believe in Marx theory of international socialism - a society in which nationalism is expelled and we are one collective. Globalisation, intergerration of humanity, originated on the left.

Whatever is dangerous about the far right can also, in theory, be applied to the left.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Redpillblues
 


So, I cant help but notice that you came in my other thread and tried to ream me a new one, but in here? You're all willing to contribute good information... Whose ideology is showing?

ACORN is an excellent answer! I didn't even think about them.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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From my point of view there are many Left wing fringe groups that are just as bad as the right wing fringe groups.

I dont see how anyone can be intellectually honest after reading sites such as the Democratic Underground, the Daily Kos, the Huffington post and not conclude that there are several very nasty left wing subcultures out there.

The Left has militant homosexual groups, environmental groups, Racial seperatists groups that are just as fringe as some of the right wing groups I am always hearing about.

Bash Back is an example of one such militant homosexual group. ALF, ELF and SHAC are examples of violent environmental groups. Racial groups include such organizations as Nation of Islam, New Black Panthers, La Raza, MECHA.

The Right have their verbal bomb tossers on the Radio and FOx news to a degree and the Left have the vast majority of Newspapers, Major TV news networks, and most of Hollywood who are also verbal bomb tossers. I dont understand folks who will viciously attack FOX news while giving the other networks a pass on side is as bad as the other. From where i sit I can understand why FOX is so pupular for most of my lifetime there was no Conservative view on the Television it was all Left wing all the time. The only conservative view was on AM talk radio, which gave birth to the Limbaughs and the Hannitys. To me there is no diffence between Olberman and Hannity , a pox on both of their houses.

If being intellectually honest is there any difference between what you see on Worldnet Daily and and Rawstory or Alternet? While the RawStory and Alternet claim to give out alternative news really the only alternative news they print is a very left wing version.

Funny thing is to me that the Left is just part of the establisment they claim to be against, GE the megacorp owns all of the NBC and universal studio news organizations. Hollywood is almost exclusively a Left Wing enterprise, long gone are the days of John Wayne and presenting America in any positive light. Academia is almost totally dominated by the Left wing as a conservative Libertarian it would be hard for me to send a child to major universities that hold up such folks as Ward Churchill and Bill Ayers as heroes. So the idea that in America the Left is some oppressed group to me is fallacy the left since 1933 until 1994 has dominatied American government and Politics despite the occasional Conservative president.

During the last general election in my neck of the woods or desert, Groups such as ACORN and the Unions made life very difficult for the average conservative very high pressure with threats on the job and visits to homes, many incidents of campaign signs being destroyed and vehicles damaged that had McCain/palin bumper stickers. I had more visits to my door in October of 2008 from ACORN and the SEIU than I have had Christians of any denomination visit in my entire lifetime.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I don't know how many here are old enough to remember the late 60s and 70s.


I remember them, but I remember mostly the anti-Vietnam-war, peace, love, "challenge the man" part. The radical underground was not a part of my personal awareness. But I think we need to delve further into this.

DTOM, I would really appreciate some links if you have them. I have done a cursory glance and am not having much luck. I'd like to know what their pledge is (or was).

Here are a couple links I have found and am going to read.

The New History of the Weather Underground

Don't Need a Weatherman

The first time I read about the Weather Underground was in relation to Bill Ayers and his association with Barack Obama. I admit, mixed in among the charges of "secret Muslim" and "Constitutionally ineligible", I pretty much passed it off as another groundless attack.

Now that that whole mess has died down, I believe it's time for me to look further into this without all the politically charged rhetoric.



I don't think these guys have changed their stripes and are no friends of our Republic or capitalism.


It will be interesting to see if I agree or disagree with this statement once I'm done researching. Because I'm not crazy about how our Republic or our experiment in capitalism is going these days, either.

Thank you for this valuable input!



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


I don't think these guys have changed their stripes and are no friends of our Republic or capitalism.


It will be interesting to see if I agree or disagree with this statement once I'm done researching. Because I'm not crazy about how our Republic or our experiment in capitalism is going these days, either.

Thank you for this valuable input!


The thing is, since this whole mess with ACORN has arisen, and the names associated with former SDS and Weather Underground have been in the news, I absolutely remember that these people had an agenda to go within the society, become enmeshed, and then take down the System.
I'm sure I either read it in a book or magazine at the time. I did a term paper on the SDS.

Their politics went far beyond Vietnam protests.

It may not be something that will be able to be found on the Internet.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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How about the leadership of the Democratic National Party? IMO as guilty of manipulation and selling out in order to gather or retain power as their Republican counterparts.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I know we have disagreed a few times but thanks for being fair and starting this thread.

Try the website www.activistcash.com... Activist cash they track groups with extreme aggendas on both sides and what criminal acts each group has committed and you can look at which groups get funding from where. They are biasied in that they list way more left leaning groups than right leaning groups but it's a good source of info.



posted on Sep, 19 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
ACORN is an excellent answer! I didn't even think about them.


I was having a hard time coming up with an extreme left-wing group that has any influence in our society.

But ACORN is definitely a good answer, I think. I don't have a lot of time right now... why the heck do I check ATS when I have somewhere to go?


Anyway, here's what I found through some quick googling.



Before starting ACORN, Wade Rathke was involved with the National Welfare Rights Organization. Some resources claim ACORN is based on the same philosophy and has the same goals as the NWRO. They are using the same method to achieve their goals, which is the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Unfortunately, I can't find a copy of the Cloward-Piven document The Weight of the Poor: A Strategy to End Poverty online.

Some links to explain the above:

George Wiley, NWRO founder

Washington Times Op-Ed on Cloward-Piven Strategy

ACORN's Role in Mortgage Crisis

I'm not really right or left... my concern is that both sides have become very authoritarian. I think people with differing views are necessary to balance a free society.

I don't think either "capitalism" or "socialism" are inherently bad, but there must be a balance that is conducive to the freedom of individuals. Both systems can make slaves of the majority when they go too far.

Anyway, here are a couple reports (PDF format) from the NCPA that I think are helpful in understanding where our left-right paradigm comes from:

What is Classical Liberalism?

Classical Liberalism vs Modern Liberalism/Conservatism





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