Help Identify "The Desperate and Dangerous Far-LEFT Extreme Sub-Culture"

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posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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In this thread (The Desperation and Dangers of the Far-Right Extreme Evangelical Sub-Culture), I was asked by member TruthParadox:


Originally posted by TruthParadox
Do you feel only the right wing extremists pose a problem?


Thank you, TruthParadox, for your question. My initial response is to say that ANY extremism with the potential for violence, based on a philosophy would, of course, pose the same problems that I voiced the original thread. Their political and religious affiliations are irrelevant, and only serve as a forum in which to organize and operate.

The question is something that I gave some thought to last evening and had planned to post about, but I hit a wall when I tried to identify a dangerous sub-culture of the far left. I fully recognize that my inability to identify this desperate cult could be because I, myself, lean left of center on several issues (although I lean right of center on some, too, and the other extreme was easy to identify).

So, I would like to ask ATS members for some genuine help in identifying this sub-culture of the left.

I think most would agree that it could have something to do with "Obama worship" (real worship, not just support), maybe socialism (real socialism), perhaps even people to the left of Obama - who think Obama is too conservative? And there might possibly be a religious element?? I know there are some children who sang songs about Obama when he was elected. I know there are people who back Obama no matter what he does. I don't know of a socialist, Marxist or Communist organization pushing that agenda to any degree...

But I did come up with some questions to aid in assisting us with the identification. I can easily answer these questions about the right-wing extremist subculture that I talked about in the other thread, but I am stumbling when trying to answer them about a left-wing equivalent. These questions are:

Who are they talking about killing or ousting?
Who do they hate?
To whom do they present a danger?
How do they display their desperation?
What is their propaganda?
How is it disseminated?
Who are their leaders/organizers?
Who are their propagandists?

These are the questions I think we need to answer to ID this desperate and dangerous left-wing cult. I don't present this as a complete list, nor are they all necessarily even valid. So, I would like your input on that as well.

My position is that it's important to see that ANY extreme political/religious/philosophical cult with an audience is a potential concern, ultimately, to ALL of us.

So, I look forward to your input with questions I have missed, points to ponder, ideas, thoughts and discussion. I do ask that this thread remain civil and not deteriorate into attacks against persons or groups. I hope for an intellectual and educational discussion. Thank you.




posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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I really don't know right now,without some research. There are some aspects of P.E.T.A. that come to mind. The save the whales,and the spotted owl people have physicaly injured some. I'll have to do some looking and get back to you.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Here's a whole government report on "Left-Wing Extremism" from April 2001. It's in PDF form.

Then there's the Weather Underground.

Here's a paper on the status of "Leftist Terrorism" post Soviet collapse. It goes into "single-issue" terrorism we see from groups like ALF.

It's all just a bunch of idiots with violent tendencies gravitating around some "issue" they feel they can relate to or one that they feel will excuse the violent acts they already feel compelled to make. They're everywhere.

Not everyone affiliated with an issue that some nut is affiliated with is a nut just as not every nut is affiliated with an issue.

To pretend it doesnt exist where you fancy yourself to be is naive. To pretend that the violence that does exist where you fancy yourself to live is somehow more noble than the others or justified over the others makes you a nut by proxy.

Google news "leftist violence" and get fingers being bitten off, windows smashed, Molotov's thrown and Google "rightist violence" and you get the same kind of crap.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


BH, I saw this title and thought, "Oooh boy! Someones going to strike back at BH and her thread."

Never thought it'd be you that started it.


kudos. Thank you for being "fair and balanced."



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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the thing about this left right metaphor is it only goes so far. its like a 3d ven diagram where the center is the far left and right extremes wrapping around and meeting in homemade bomb town.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Tax me for my CO2?!?!

Make cigarettes illegal?!?!?!

Stop me from eating animals?!?!?!

there are a lot of examples of far-left extremists, let me know if you want 500 more.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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What's interesting to me is that most people still are of the mindset that there are two sides, and not that TPTB are using this Right vs Left ridiculousness for their own agenda. But I'm sure there are people that are happy with the division of America and where it is leading.

When will the general population learn to think outside the box?



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Orion65
 


Forgive me BH if I'm out of line here, but that is what I think she is trying to do.

There are extemists. Christian right/fundamentalists and the green/environmental/no-smoking/no red meat/no war/no pants/ loons.

Excuse, since I am a conservative, but they are the driving force between much of the contention that occurs.

Even the most leftist people on this site and I have found common ground on many issues.

As would most. It's the extremists on both sides that keep the "divide" active.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by iNTERPLANETARyR.O.M.E.O.
 


GOT to give you a star for that post, because I think you are RIGHT ON!

Or a 3D Bell curve would give the same impression. The "extremes" (bright blue) of the curve all rest on the table. Thanks for this insight!





posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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just look to some of oabamas czars for answers

Holdren
Sunstein
Lloyd
Koh
Van Jones (RIP)
Etc



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Orion65
 


Forgive me BH if I'm out of line here, but that is what I think she is trying to do.

There are extemists. Christian right/fundamentalists and the green/environmental/no-smoking/no red meat/no war/no pants/ loons.

Excuse, since I am a conservative, but they are the driving force between much of the contention that occurs.

Even the most leftist people on this site and I have found common ground on many issues.

As would most. It's the extremists on both sides that keep the "divide" active.



and I, being a liberal agree with you mike..for instance, i realize that our taxes should be kept as low as possible, while still providing adequate services for the general population to prosper, and not just those at the top.
i own guns and believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, however, i don't think criminals, the mentally ill, or children should have 2nd amendment rights.
i believe in freedom of religion, but also freedom of government from religious dictates



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 
Oh for the love of all thats warm & moist!
This thread is so utterly, utterly sad



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by Orion65
 


Forgive me BH if I'm out of line here, but that is what I think she is trying to do.

There are extemists. Christian right/fundamentalists and the green/environmental/no-smoking/no red meat/no war/no pants/ loons.

Excuse, since I am a conservative, but they are the driving force between much of the contention that occurs.

Even the most leftist people on this site and I have found common ground on many issues.

As would most. It's the extremists on both sides that keep the "divide" active.



Sorry if anyone misinterpreted my post, I wasn't referring to the OP but to the people in general (extremists, mainly) who can't look above and beyond to what is best for the good of the country. It's frustrating to read or watch the news anymore. I wish more people had a "middle of the road" mentality, humanity in general would be much better for it. My post was mainly me venting about the degree of Leftism and Rightism we have, and how we need to come together more and see past this "game".



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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BH, actually I do not even know if 3/4 of what we see on the internet or even on TV are far right or far left. When I spend some time on YouTube watching video, the things that are said on their are too extreme to be true. If you watch long enough the same posters try to antagonize the other side. I believe, on the internet 50-75% are paid trolls/provocateurs for both sides. Our government performs psyops all the time. They have psyops divisions in the military. Using their techniques against the public is not even a hiccup for them. Never use to think this way, until I see C Span Junkies site wiped out, YouTube videos manipulated and pulled, numerous sites trolled. I of course am one of those Christian, fiscal conservative, strict constitutionalists, so I could be one those guys.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by mikerussellus
BH, I saw this title and thought, "Oooh boy! Someones going to strike back at BH and her thread."


I cracked UP when I read this!
Thanks for that.


Originally posted by mikerussellus
green/environmental/no-smoking/no red meat/no war/no pants/ loons.


No pants?
I haven't heard of them... Don't think I want to. But your other examples are helping me to get the idea. Thank you.

I would agree that your suggestion is a potential problem. Can you answer some of the questions I posed about this group? I don't see any problem with being green or an environmentalist or not smoking, not eating meat or being anti-war. It's when these all come together and ORGANIZE to try to force their agenda on others through incitement, false claims, and information dissemination that the problem arises... Is this happening? Is violence a concern? Are they dangerous, desperate or just "tree-huggers" who have nothing better to do than be activists and carry signs?



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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Most of the socialists, Marxists, communists and even anarchists that I know are in the university. The most dangerous thing they do is go to conferences and give speeches to each other.

Sometimes they talk to the students about their convictions. The students either accept or reject what they hear; they're young adults and most are perfectly able to take what they want from a class and leave the rest.

I guess in theory communists and anarchists support the overthrow of the government, but the ones I know are just waiting for "the people" to start a revolution. Needless to say, they'll be waiting a long time.

It could be argued that McCarthy's paranoid persecution of suspected communists in the 1950's (who included everybody who didn't agree with him) was more dangerous than the actual communist party ever was. Gus Hall, the communist who ran for election in umpteen presidential elections in this country, supposedly received about a million dollars from the communist party in Russia, but the communist party in the U.S. has been very small and mostly ineffective throughout its history.

There were some riots by labor organizations in the early part of the 20th century.

I guess the point at which the left was most dangerous was in the 1960's. There were several big riots in cities like Detroit and Washington D.C. and the Watts section of L.A. following the assassination of Martin Luther King and/or protesting socio-economic conditions. These could be said to have been, at least in part, spear-headed by leftists. There was the Weather Underground, which planted some bombs but didn't kill anyone except one of their own, who blew herself up. Then there were some smaller, radical groups, like the Symbionese Liberation Army, who kidnapped Patty Hearst and had plans to accomplish greater feats of armed resistance to the establishment. But there were a number of radical leftist groups who aimed to spearhead an uprising of "the people."

So it wouldn't be fair to say the left has never been violent or extremist. It has been.

Right now, though, I'd say most of the rhetoric of revolution and mayhem is coming from the extreme right. IMO the communists on the left have pretty well decided that the American people will always be capitalists, and while they can hope and dream about a communist revolution, most of them have come to the conclusion that it won't happen in their lifetimes.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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The issue here is that the far-right are a part of the GOP base, and by that, they can (and do) get a lot of leverage. Hence we have "crusades" in the Middle East, blind support of Israel etc. We have also had a vast deregulation of the banking industry, just as the right wing ideology (far from common sense) dictates. The result is painfully known to most.

Through its vastly better connections to real power in the US, the right fringe is doing a lot more damage to the country than any sort of left lunatic can dream up. Remember that tele-preacher who said that Ariel Sharon had suffered his stroke as God's punishment to some concessions to Palestinians? And that sort of thing is relatively mainstream in the US. There is nothing comparable on the left.



[edit on 18-9-2009 by buddhasystem]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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While there continue to be far left organizations functioning within the United States it is simply wrong to compare them to far right organizations for several reasons.

(1) The most important in my mind is that the far left has never had a serious chance at threatening the government and the American system. Never. They have been systematically been hunted down and destroyed in the red scare at the end of world war one. McCarthyism is a prime example of the actions against them...but more to the point throughout the 70's and into the 80's the FBI systematically sought them out and eliminated them as a threat...not that they really were to begin with since they were a minority even within the most far left liberal community.

(2) With the exception of actions against gangs like the Aryan brotherhood there has never been such a concerted effort against the far more numerous members of the far right militias and the like.

(3) Finally there is simply the matter of American ideals. We can and do embrace a range of political viewpoints but with the exception of a very few even the most liberal of us have no interest in a soviet style system. However the myths of the far right strike at the very core of who we think ourselves to be as American...rugged individuals for example...freedom loving etc.

There is PETA and Earth First and ALF and the revived Black Panthers for example but for the most part I would argue that it is a mistake to link any of them to the traditional far left since all four are less driven by a coherent political ideology as in say the Weather Underground or the Communist Party of America as they are specific issues. And the revived Black Panther's are little more than a gang.

Personally and this is my own take on things...others will no doubt disagree...but rigid political ideologies, regardless of what they call themselves are antithetical to a true liberal ideal. Why? Because they as a rule embrace a inflexible ideology that require alleigence and by necessity true liberalism is all about flexiblity and openness to new ideas. Extremists, no matter what they call themselves are antithetical to that.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by grover]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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[

JimmyX

and I, being a liberal agree with you mike..for instance, i realize that our taxes should be kept as low as possible, while still providing adequate services for the general population to prosper, and not just those at the top.
i own guns and believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, however, i don't think criminals, the mentally ill, or children should have 2nd amendment rights.
i believe in freedom of religion, but also freedom of government from religious dictates



From the sounds of this You're much more of a classic liberal than a modern liberal. Really you would fit in with most of us tea partiers, don't let labels rule/fool you.



[edit on 18-9-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]

[edit on 18-9-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by grover
(1) The most important in my mind is that the far left has never had a serious chance at threatening the government and the American system. Never.


Good point. Maybe that's why I have such a hard time getting a handle on it. We don't see the Democrats (one of the two major political parties in this country right now) supporting PETA, the New Black Panthers or the SLA, etc... (correct me if I'm wrong.) The organization and associations necessary to make these groups a threat to the government or our way of life are lacking, as far as I know. And there are no political commentators out there preaching their gospel for the followers to absorb and regurgitate.



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