Racism is for Ignorant Fools, not ATS.

I would like to add that some here seem to relish their moral
superiority by claiming that they are not racist. Sure, racism seems
ignorant to those who have learned to behave better but others have
not yet had the opportunity to correct their shortcomings.

Far too much of what Americans learn comes from TV, movies,
video games and school. We have a great deal of subtle but very
real institutionalized racism here in the US.

This is your site Skeptic Overlord and I would ask that you retain
the rights of free speech here regardless of a post's relative stupidity,
brilliance, compassion or hatred contained therein. If we ban the
use of certain words or ideas then we have opened the pandora's
box that can never again be closed. The list of undesirable thoughts
will only grow longer as the variety of ideas grows shorter.

We're all human and that includes character flaws; racism, bias,
impatience, bigotry, intolerance, false piety whatever. The list of
human flaws and frailties is endless as is our capacity to overcome
them.

When we close the doors of communication we will have lost our
chance to address the very problems we had hoped to change.

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by RRconservative

 

In my opinion, extreme as it may seem, ATS is dead. As I've said before, this site will be listed as a hate site soon, her soul has been corrupted and killed by an ugly force.

As I read the board daily I am starting to feel the site is headed in that direction. Hopefully I am wrong and things will get better.

Originally posted by AsktheanimalsIf we ban the
use of certain words or ideas then we have opened the pandora's
box that can never again be closed. The list of undesirable thoughts
will only grow longer as the variety of ideas grows shorter.

I held your opinion not very long ago. I think it's a noble approach and one I would prefer.

However, what I have also observed is that people are like water and will flow to the lowest point. A flood begins with a single drop of rain and, quite frankly, ATS has experienced a deluge of racism and intolerance.

We must dam ourselves against the ignorance or we will be overcome by it and washed away.

ATS is only asking for civility and decorum in this matter. Surely you can concede that no real discussion, debate, persuasion or epiphany can take place without it.


[edit on 18/9/2009 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by masqua


Interesting you bring India up. The caste system in India may be the closest embodiment of the negative aspects of racism defined above.

Besides the merchant/politician/professors/artist classes, there are untouchables and villagers that people living in town won't associate with. Somewhat similar to how in the US we just don't talk to the employees of the gardening service (most of us can't speak Spanish anyway) or to the Molly Maid housekeepers on maid Visa from Honduras (same issue). There's a whole invisible class of people everywhere.

Now the comment on Indonesian independence is interesting. They threw off the Dutch when WWII weakened the Dutch for their freedom, nationalized all private and corporate properties, and created a dictatorship. Ya, smooth move there Indonesia, kick out all the educated people and create a dictatorship. There was a caste system there too, Dutch v. Indonesians v. Mixed, the difference being that each caste thought they were better than the others.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by Dbriefed]

Man! That was a lot to read to catch up!

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
When we close the doors of communication we will have lost our
chance to address the very problems we had hoped to change.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think anyone is calling for a cease and desist on all discussions of race (or tribes, nationality or ethnicity).

From the OP:

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Unfortunately, the issues of racism, bigotry, and intolerance are critically important, but are difficult to discuss without interruption from the ignorant fools. We will not be limiting such topics, but we will be more vigilant in removing those fools from our midst.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I could be mistaken, but I don't think anyone is calling for a cease and desist on all discussions of race (or tribes, nationality or ethnicity).

Exactly.

We've been debating for 16 pages and I've done nothing but discuss what I think 'race' is. Nothing wrong with it.

What needs to be scrutinzed are comments expressed in a general and hateful manner.

I'd like nothing better than to see intelligent debates on racism, tribalism or culture clash, but cringe in shame when someone makes hateful all-encompassing statements against an entire ethnic group, no matter who they are.

From the OP:

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Unfortunately, the issues of racism, bigotry, and intolerance are critically important, but are difficult to discuss without interruption from the ignorant fools. We will not be limiting such topics, but we will be more vigilant in removing those fools from our midst.

I dunno, Overlord, I kind of like knowing who they are. Although I suppose they would just make fake names and hide behind those like the ignorant cowards and haters that they are. I agree they should be weeded out, but not necessarily from forums but from the world. There's no place for them here.

I for one, though not shocked by the racism that is coming to the surface in this past year or so...always knew it was there simmering under the surface, am torn between being disappointed in both the administration for their refusal to acknowledge it and the media for their support of their action plan and wondering if it racism and hatred will ever really be confronted if it's not acknowledged and confronted.

Then again, on further thought, maybe ignoring all racists and refusing to give them any credence or air time really is the way for society and the world to go. Man this is really a conundrum, isn't it?

reply to post by masqua


well said masqua.

but perhaps it is a far more difficult mindframe/perception to attain than one may think.

i'm all for a universal reverence for life, but exploring such realms of consciousness could be detremental to the individual mindset.

i think the word is "nuenomenon or nuemenon" or something like that ...
that is defined as a "theoretical idea that something in and of itself can not determine what it is." or something to that effect...

and if such a theory is true, that something in and of itself cannot define itself ... then others become a necessity, if definition is required. and such a necessity becomes reality, whether through creationistic logic, or evolutionary standards.

either way, others are required. life requires diversity, or it wouldn't exist. people can choose to fight nature and/or god on this issue ...
or choose to accept the facts of reality.

honestly, from my perspective, people who choose to fight nature/god on the issue of diversity, tend to exhibit actions and behaviors that reflect a certain amount of stupidity.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by soul of integrity]

reply to post by kosmicjack



I totally understand the intent here and I too was concerned with
all the bigoted comments comments I have seen. Usually ATS
members are above this sort of rhetoric but it certainly does
seem like a flood of it. Can't we be honest and admit that we all
have our flaws and forgive those who offend whether on purpose
or not? This seems to be a de facto condemnation of racism as being
worse than other faults.

All I know is that I am not fit to judge.

Here is my suggestion then:

1) - Let the members reply to the offending posts, often they can
diffuse situations that MODS can't since they are viewed as equals.
This gives the members a responsibility to reply when someone has
gone over the line. Peer pressure can be very effective in controlling
behavior and I feel the membership has a duty to respectfully address
posters who make offensive commentary. This also relieves the MODS
of being seen in a negative light as some kind of thought police.

2) - If said behavior continues then the MODs should read the riot act.

3) - The final step would be to ban a person who repeatedly is found to
be offensive.

I love ATS although I'm pretty much a nOOb here. I'd hate to see the
free character of the site being compromised by the thoughtless words
of a few.

I applaud this.

I personally think the environment was getting a bit racially abrasive around here and I am glad that ATS recognized this.

I also believe that Stormfront has been vigorously knocking at the ATS door and it's quite obvious.
I was beginning to wonder if they had some sort of recruitment drive going on.

- Lee

I've been trying(and failing) to keep up with this thread. It's interesting stuff so far.

Could multiculturalism ever work?

Are people too racially sensitive these days?

Do the MSM intentionally stir up racial hate?

Important questions which I think need to be discussed.

Originally posted by Chilled Zen

Could multiculturalism ever work?

if america is the template for such a multiculture, do you think america is succeeding or is america failing???

reply to post by lee anoma


Yeah the thought that Stormfront is doing stealth recruiting here has occurred to me more than once.

The other day I saw a chain mail from there posted here in its entirety.

To their credit, the mods had it mopped up within minutes, but it's harder to deal with the stuff that is posted with an eye towards "plausible deniability" than it is that kind of really obvious stuff

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
In my long experience with social content communities (dating back to BBSs of the 1980's) the only people who seem to be confused about "what is a racist remark" are indeed racists doing one of two things...
1. pretending ignorance/confusion on the subject.
2. attempting to inject claims of racism where there is none.

While I applaude your effort to dam the flow of racist remarks, I'm a little troubled by your statement. You are essentially calling me a racist.

You seem to know what a racist is without actually defining the term. Maybe I missed an announcement, but if not, your move seems very arbitrary.

And for the record: I grew up in Europe, without much of the race-baggage that is prevalent in this country, and I am very confused about racism. I'm not pretending to be confused. I am ! Now, does that make me automatically a racist?

Originally posted by lee anoma
Stormfront has been vigorously knocking at the ATS door

Visitors clicking through to ATS from (spit) Stormfront now receive a brief little message before viewing ATS content.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

There is no equivocation, to be racist is to be an ignorant fool not worthy of participation in society,

That is exactly why the extreme left have tried to make ALL opposition to their agendas appear as racially motivated because the president is black.

The ignorance is all a matter of perspective, or party affiliation?

Racism exists, no doubt, I've seen plenty of it here, both overt and covert.

But you cannot dismiss the fact that race has been made a political issue, and the race card was dealt in an especially dirty way by the left.

There are some fringe elements out there who are also involved heavily in spreading the belief that anyone opposed to the president is a racist.

It is a game no ATS member should be involved in.

The only race that should matter here is the human race.

I am glad this thread was started. As someone who has never had problems online or in personal life, I can honestly say that it is all in your head. Racism is only a mind frame that can be changed.

I am white. I listen to death metal. And I bang my head at concerts.

But, no other race of people have ever had bad things to say to me in probably 7 years. Why? Because I know how to talk to ANYONE. I am heavily against racism. (although MSM would have you believe the stereotypes)

I have friends from all over the world. I work with probably 10 different ethnicities of people that I can easily pick up on. We get along just fine.

In essence. GET THE (BLEEP) OVER IT! We all die. We all need food to survive. You bleed when you get cut, just like me!

Originally posted by masqua
What needs to be scrutinzed are comments expressed in a general and hateful manner.

I agree. Comments like those below walk a fine line. Bigotry is Racism's evil cousin.

I redacted the guilty party so as not to be a total narc.

So if I wake up, and discover that something terrible has happened to him, I'll just reminded myself that Obama has pissed off a lot more people than did Kennedy.
And then go back to the rest of my nap.

I will be amazed if there is not another "event" that occurs which causes a change in the Executive office.

So if he goes down - like I give a a damn.

I hope the mods will crack down on this type of vitriol as well. (I realize we are discussing racism in general not just the veiled guise of threats as those above under the auspices of opposing political views. In my mind, the lines often blur.)



[edit on 18-9-2009 by kinda kurious]

See this is why ATS is a cut above the rest
I guarantee you all other top major political or conspiracy sites and their admins did not put this to everyone's attention.

I don't frequent any other such site, but have lurked through some from just regular browsing and surfing, and never went back really.

ATS however.... I stayed!

Excellent Thread!

Originally posted by Matrix Rising

All Presidents get criticized. Reagan, Clinton, Bush and now all of a sudden your a racist if you oppose Obama's policies.

That's just because those same liberals see his race as his only weakness. They are the true racists.

Forgot to add...

No matter what anybody says, their words can/will be misconstrued by those that are truly at guilt of what they accuse the original speaker of.


[edit on 18-9-2009 by SpacePunk]