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Ahmadinejad: Confronting Israel is a national duty, Holocaust was a "lie"

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posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by Gools
 


My blinders are off thank you very much and I am just stating a fact, so sorry you don't like it but it is still a fact.




posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


News Flash, there is a much larger, better known group called Evangelical Zionist Christians who believe Jesus Christ will return in much the same fashion!

I dare say this group far out numbers your 'little known' group, has far more blood on their hands, and is actually known to believe that being killed in a mythical event called the 'Trump' is a good thing, and will be also singing Hallelujah as bombs drop on them.

I think this group is far, far more dangerous, as you can't even start to count up all the bodies they have killed over the last decade let alone the last 16 centuries they have been at it.

For crying out loud, one side is as bad as another, and while people pretend their side isn't as wacked out of their gourds as the other side is, it leaves those of us with COMMON SENSE dangerously in the middle of their game.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:03 AM
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I am confused as to why I am being jumped on here. I thought I was just adding a bit more information. I will leave you too it seeing as there is obviously no room for civilised debate in this thread.

It makes no difference to me so have at it



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


Not only did your post not contain anything anti-Israel, but you inferred that the Iranian regime is a little bit mental.

On here, that's sort of a textbook error.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by chips
On here, that's sort of a textbook error.


In what way?
What are you implying?

If you can't see that we take a neutral stance on ATS (i.e. we don't simply accept any side's propaganda without question) then I suggest that you are not looking (or thinking) hard enough.
.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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Who elected this idiot? Everytime he speaks my brain hurts.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by SmokeJaguar67
 


hmmm. Both sides have an interest in a war it seems to fulfill religous prophecy. Thanks for the info on the 12th Imam and the group. I was not aware of this and it definitely adds a bit of light here.

Already knew the christian philosophy on this.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by chips

phew! I'm glad reuters & haaretz were there to include little ()'s that interperet his speech for us!

What pretext is he referring to? Is it _actually_ the holocaust?


Hilarious.

I presume it's the same 'pretext' he refers to within the first 15 seconds of this video.

youtube.com/watch?v=pZtSBl_4o4o

You can't reason someone out of a position they were never reasoned into.

ZIONIST PROPAGANDA! SHILL! CIA! MOSSAD! ALEX! RON! BUILDING 7! NWO!

Next?


Much of what he said in his speech is true. The continuing problem Israel has is an inability to listen to another's point of view.

He speaks of the Zionist ideology that believes Jews are chosen by God and are a special/superior people. This is drilled into them from birth, unfortunately.

Staging a showy walk-out instead of listening and addressing the concerns of others is the norm for Israeli politics. In their mind God "gave" them the land and those pesky people living there will just have to go or be eliminated. Period.

RFK wanted inspections of Israeli nuclear activities in the 60's. They refused to cooperate. He felt that once they had nuclear weapons the other countries would feel they had no choice but to develop nukes for themselves. He was right, of course.

Iran is on their list and we will be right in the middle of it.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by JohnL
 





he told worshippers at Tehran University at the end of annual anti-Israel Quds Day rally.



This is the part I find the most interesting.

Annual anti-Israel Quds Day!

So is this a national holiday celebration in Iran? Does Israel have an anti-Iran day?

I just wish these 2 would get it on, or get on with their lives. The constant back and forth rhetoric is getting annoying and losing any and all meaning.

reminds me of the over-done tv show plots where the 2 main (male and female) characters spend years flirting and pining for each other but never end up in the sack.... xfiles comes to mind. hmmm maybe Israel and Iran need slepp with each other.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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I love it. Everyone immediately rushes to Mr A's defense or tries to justify his intent. Has he ever ever said anything that wasn't immediately explained away as a mistranslation?

Iran, a country uninvolved in the events of WWII in Europe, feels compelled to have a Holocaust examination event. No, no, no.
It's just a mistranslation, folks. You see Farsi is a complicated language.

That Mr A is megalomaniac and slightly off his rocker is not a possible interpretation around here. He's responding to those terrible Zionist's and their terrible philosophy. He is compelled to use government funds not to develop his own country, but to finance hostile endeavours in Syria, Gaza, Lebanon, now Yemen.

He is also quietly wresting control of his country from the reigning Mullahs with the support of the military. Maybe not a bad thing.
One would expect they would prioritize getting their house in order
with domestic reforms and increasing industrialization. The country is, how shall I put it, backwards. Right now they can't even refine their own oil needs.

Bu that's not as satisying as seeking out enemies and working towards their destruction. Israel is a great candidate. Great fun blowing them up. You'd be so popular.

War beats work. And just the threat get's people talking. Helps divert attention from the endemic corruption and infighting for power going on in Iran. The threat is never at home, it's those Evil Zionist who are the problem. Like the uninformed Iranian populace at large, people around here gobble that up.

Watch out for those loose cannons.

Mike

[edit on 18-9-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
That Mr A is megalomaniac and slightly off his rocker is not a possible interpretation around here.


I call total BS on this statement. Have a look around this website and you will find plenty of threads and posts vilifying the Iranian president.

In this case, the story is BLATANTLY biased by "filling in the blanks".

That is all people are pointing out (me at least) the rest is your fantasy about ulterior motives for simply pointing out the obvious. Don't read into it anything more than that.
.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Well I say let's take the perceived rhetoric out and see how it sounds.


"The pretext for the creation of the Zionist regime is false ... It is a lie based on an unprovable and mythical claim," he told worshippers at Tehran University at the end of annual anti-Israel Quds Day rally.

"Confronting the Zionist regime is a national and religious duty," the Iranian president said. Advertisement Ahmadinejad's critics say his fiery anti-Western speeches and questioning of the Holocaust have isolated Iran, which is at odds with the West over its disputed nuclear program. The hard-line president warned leaders of Western-allied Arab and Muslim countries about dealing with Israel.

"This regime will not last long. Do not tie your fate to it?. This regime has no future. Its life has come to an end," he said in the speech broadcasted live on state radio.


So on it's face value it's still a threatening bit of rhetoric to come from a leader of a PEACEFUL country.

Just my 2 cents





[edit on 18-9-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Oh my dear Michael you have just described every leader from Netanyahu to Obama, to Putin, and how they all use their nation's treasuries to foster military, paramilitary, and political movements outside of their borders.

Israel hasn't invested anything in Georgia now has it? Amazes me of course that all the aide Israel recieves it actually turns around and uses some of it to aide other nations they want strategic alliances with.

There is not a leader in the world alive that I know of that isn't a meglomaniac.

There is hardly a nation on the planet that wasn't involved in World War II in Europe.

It's a pot calling the kettle black argument as it always is when it's about preaching intollerance of others.

I think if everyone just focused on cleaning up their own backyards instead of trying to clean their neighbors while they leave their own a total mess and disgrace would be a far better idea.

This circular logic of not supporting Israel in it's quest to want to fight a 'preemptive' war of aggression is tantatmount to being anti-Israel is just foolish.

I don't know what video accounts you saw of the Tehran Conferences on the Holocaust but I saw plenty of Orthodox Jews sitting there.

The fact that the Zionist Israeli Government lacked the fortitude to participate on an academic level for political reasons certainly underlies the true strength of it's own case regarding the matter.

There are so many distortions regarding the Holocaust used as a means to justify the manipulation of World Events that it is an inherent danger to not confront the actual truth.

The real truth and lesson of the Holocaust Michael is a very simple one that no one seems to care:

That is that even when a State through a massively funded, meticulously organized, 24/7/365 constant effort employs violence to stamp out idealogies and religions and sexual orientations, lifestyles and political views it simply DOES NOT WORK.

Violence is not the answer, preemptive violence is not the answer.

EVERYONE LOOSES IN CONFRONTATION regardless of what brought about the confrontation.

You can not murder your way out of a problem that requires communication and mutual understanding.

Was Israel invited to that conference in Tehran to participate in it?

TO COMMUNICATE TO REACH A MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING?

You can bet your last dollar they were.

What we have here as always is a failure to communicate and that seems to be based on that anyone who does not accept the Official Israeli Story on anything needs to die for being a danger.

Zionist Israel is the agressor and it's proven simply by you hear Israel saying time and time again, we must attack Iran before Iran has a nuclear weapon and can attack us.

You haven't heard Iran say we must attack Israel before they attack us once!

Confronting the distortions of the Holocaust and openly calling for a military strike are two very different things Michael.

People with basic intelligence and common sense can sort those obvious distinctions out.

Israel does it's self no favor with the usual "Who are you going to believe your lying eyes and ears or us" spiel.

Just say no to war and violence and paranoia, just stay yes to communicating and sitting down and talking to those you fear or don't understant, even if it's in their house, and they and their house offend you.

Grow up already.

The world has had enough war and violence and it has yet to accomplish one thing except make a handful of obscenely greedy people rich.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
Well I say let's take the perceived rhetoric out and see how it sounds.

"The pretext for the creation of the Zionist regime is false ... It is a lie based on an unprovable and mythical claim," he told worshippers at Tehran University at the end of annual anti-Israel Quds Day rally.

"Confronting the Zionist regime is a national and religious duty," the Iranian president said. Advertisement Ahmadinejad's critics say his fiery anti-Western speeches and questioning of the Holocaust have isolated Iran, which is at odds with the West over its disputed nuclear program. The hard-line president warned leaders of Western-allied Arab and Muslim countries about dealing with Israel.

"This regime will not last long. Do not tie your fate to it?. This regime has no future. Its life has come to an end," he said in the speech broadcasted live on state radio.


So on it's face value it's still a threatening bit of rhetoric to come from a leader of a PEACEFUL country.

Just my 2 cents


Come to think of it you do have some valid points there. When you put it all together it does actually seem like a threat. I think this is a case of Ahmad provoking Israel by questioning its legitimacy, but Israel exaggerating the provocation. Can people from both sides agree on that?

---------------------------------

Mod Edit: Off topic comments directed at another member removed.

Mod Note: Please Stay On Topic – Please Review Link.
Mod Note: Attack the Ball, Not the Player – Please Review Link.
Mod Note: Courtesy is Mandatory – Please Review Link.

[edit on 9/18/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Gools

Originally posted by mmiichael
That Mr A is megalomaniac and slightly off his rocker is not a possible interpretation around here.


I call total BS on this statement. Have a look around this website and you will find plenty of threads and posts vilifying the Iranian president.

In this case, the story is BLATANTLY biased by "filling in the blanks".

That is all people are pointing out (me at least) the rest is your fantasy about ulterior motives for simply pointing out the obvious. Don't read into it anything more than that.



Fair enough. My immediate context was this thread and the response. More than one extended justifications of ongoing aggressive rhetoric by the named subject. Every time I see him quoted I see a mistranslation and apologist response. This is repeated here, I’d say. Maybe I’m wrong.

What I am certain of, 30 years on since the Islamic Revolution the quality of life for the average Iranian has eroded. Millions have fled taking their financial means and talent elsewhere. Military over spending and neglect of a much in need of upgrading infrastructure is crippling the economy. A new super-rich elite has developed among the clerical rulers that enhances itself at the expense of the people. Tremendous civil unrest. Almost complete isolation internationally. Major problems.

But Mr A presents himself as dealing with the needs of his country, not by fixing what’s broken within, but by externalizing the cause – the Dreaded Zionist Regime. And more than once, to the chagrin of his own senior authority, he has claimed this as part of a religious destiny.

Not the best face or critical path for the people of Iran for a leader of a country to publicly verbalize these ambitions.

I’m going to stick to my assessment of Mr A. And I’ll reject the attempts to explain away his very scary sounding agendas.


M



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
But Mr A presents himself as dealing with the needs of his country, not by fixing what’s broken within, but by externalizing the cause – the Dreaded Zionist Regime. And more than once, to the chagrin of his own senior authority, he has claimed this as part of a religious destiny.


Agreed.
It's an OLD tactic used by politicians everywhere.

We won't get into why Iranian society is in the pickle it's in today (hint 1953) because it's off topic.

.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


So let's have Israel and the United States bomb them back to the Stone Age to make their quality of life better! Brilliant, simply brilliant and amazingly so effective at elevating the standard of life!

Better yet lets do it on the American dime, with American weapons, while America itself has SEEN IT'S QUALITY OF LIFE DETORIATE DEMONSTRABLY SINCE TYING IT'S FORTUNES TO ISRAEL STRATEGICALLY OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DECADES!

Let's let American's pay for creating another parking lot out of thriving metropolis with exorbitantly expensive weapons courtesy of the America Tax Payer while our economy and unemployment reaches levels not seen since the great depression.

Is the twisted poisonous demonic world view of the tyrants that bequeath only upon us their bitterness and hatred and intolerance so strong in its unbridled malevolence that people actually think murder and destruction elevates a people's standard of life and living that it is visited upon?

How long can they count upon beating down the multitudes that just want peace and ridiculing and scoffing at the wise with these twisted and sinister arguments that are nothing but an entreaty for indiscriminate violence, death, theft and destruction?

These arguments from scheming and withered hearts and minds sicken me to no end.

Israel needs to stop showering it’s bitterness on the world Michael. If making their dessert flower requires setting everyone else’s ablaze the needs of the many must not outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

You know what you are condoning here.

I say nay!



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Proty,

Before you go further in your cherry picking points of history to present a narrative, how about just the history of Iran since the Islamic Republic began.

Israel supported the new regime in their 8 year war against Iraq. Weaponry and intelligence foremost. The destruction of Iraq's Osirak reactor also benefitted Iran ultimately.

Despite their incessant rhetoric, Israel never claimed Iran as a threat for the first decades of the regime. Ayatollah Khoumeini denied Israel's back up and even accused them of being allied with Saddam Hussein.

Notably Israel has not seen the need to employ proxies to antagonize Iran militarily. But Iran has seen the need to finance and arm opposition to Israel.

Tragically, in a region dominated by Sunni monarchies and oligarchies, Iran and Israel make for natural allies. The Shah was smart enough to pick up on this. The Mullahs weren't.

Pragmatists make better leaders than idealogues.


Mike



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


Who appointed anyone their brother's keeper?

Israel acted in it's own interest in the Iran/Iraq war, and would have bombed Iraq's reactors whether their was a Iran/Iraq war, just like it want's to bomb Iran's now.

I understand the historical significance of both Babylon and Sassanind Persia in this obscene charade the despots out of Rome are playing Michael.

I am not a fool. Nor will I do or condone other's undertaking fool's errands.

It is the selective cherry picking of history versus understanding it and it's significance in it's entirety that dooms us all to suffer these ghastly consequences.

The lies serve no purpose save death, destruction, hatred, chaos, poverty and endless repression.

The Meek inherit the Earth Michael, not the might makes right crowd.

Your people have lost their way. If you really want to help them, help them refind it.

Violence is not the answer Michael.

Free your mind.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
I am confused as to why I am being jumped on here. I thought I was just adding a bit more information. I will leave you too it seeing as there is obviously no room for civilised debate in this thread.

It makes no difference to me so have at it


Hey SmokeJaguar67,

No one here is trying to be rude to you (and if anyone is, they are obviously not worth the time it takes to read their poorly-composed blather). However, you must understand that if you come onto this forum, trying to provide facts, you will most definitely need to cite them with at least credible source, each.

Stating Iran's desire for war as a concrete fact is, in all honesty, a bit silly. Though, if you had stated it in opinion, then "we" probably wouldn't be "jumping on you", but rather trying to reason with you. AboveTopSecret is all about logic and knowledge- without separating opinions from fact, what kind of a job would we be doing?

There is no reasoning with a man who tries passing opinion for fact, I'm afraid.




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